Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #36683

Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply

From "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply
Date 2015-02-19 10:43 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mc4ena$8t8$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <21c3228e-b010-4b78-a72e-3e62df5ff7c4@googlegroups.com> <ebb71953-0575-4a3f-83c8-30f67d44bea8@googlegroups.com> <7ea407de-bae9-4ba5-b6d5-6c977023d827@googlegroups.com> <60501588-a206-454f-bff0-af73e7553190@googlegroups.com> <8661402b-0b29-48d3-bdc0-adbe526ca917@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

on 19/02/2015 01:54:46,  wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-7, Tessa Bonting
> > wrote:
>> Op woensdag 18 februari 2015 04:17:36 UTC+1 schreef hughag...@gmail.com:
> > wrote:
>> > On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-7, Michael Barry wrote:
> > wrote:
>> > > On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 4:12:14 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com
> wrote: wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > ... The guy at the auto-parts store recommended to me that I use le
> ss
>> > > > than 1/2 anti-freeze. He does drag-racing, and doesn't use any anti
> -
>> > > > freeze, but for street use some anti-freeze is necessary to prevent
>> > > > boiling over --- but he thought that 1/2 was too high and I should
>> > > > go with less --- the 1/2 figure is primarily to prevent freezing in
>> > > > cold climates, but shouldn't be necessary in Phoenix where our
>> > > > problem is over-heating.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > I would almost always question the validity of any advice from an aut
> o-
>> > >  parts store employee, especially if it went against manufacturer
>> > >  recommendations or product instructions, as is the case here.
>> >
>> > Here is an article on the subject:
>> > http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html> >
>> > According to this, a 1/5 mixture has a boiling point of 216F and a 1/2
> mixture is 225F (at sea-level atmospheric pressure) --- not a big
> differenc e --- the use of lubricant reduces the surface tension of
> the coolant, and works better the less anti-freeze is in the mixture,
> so this may more than make up for the 9 degree difference in
> > boiling-point.
>> >
> > boiling-point.
>> > I don't think I'm totally wrong, but I don't know enough about chemistr
> boiling-point. y to argue the point --- just following the 1/2
> recommendation on the bottl e, as you suggest, is a reasonable way to
> > go.
>> >
> > go.
>> > I don't really understand why a car boils over anyway. Water in liquid
> go. form will neither compress nor expand (afaik, the same is true
> when ethylen e glycol is mixed in). So, what causes the expansion of
> the coolant that bl ows out the valve on the radiator cap? If the
> water turned into steam, then that would certainly expand and blow the
> radiator cap, but how does the co olant expand before the radiator cap
> blows when the coolant is still liquid ? As I said, the coolant
> shouldn't expand at all when it is still in liquid form and is in a
> closed system (the system is closed prior to the radiator cap blowing)
> --- so where does the expansion come from that blows the radi ator
> > cap?
>> >
> > cap?
>> > It seems like I have just proven that a car can't boil over no matter h
> cap? ow hot it gets and no matter how much ethylene glycol is mixed in
> (includin g 0%) --- grim experience indicates otherwise, however.
> 
>> Water expands above 4 celsius and below the same temperatur.
>> If you compresse it it will stop in liquid form at 4 degrees celcius.
> 
> I said: "Water in liquid form will neither compress nor expand (afaik,
> the same is true when ethylene glycol is mixed in)." If there is
> air-space, the n it is possible for the coolant to boil into that
> air-space (air and steam are both compressible) and the steam to build
> up pressure in that air-spac e, which will eventually blow the
> radiator cap --- but there is no air-spac e because I filled the
> radiator up to the brim --- so I still don't underst and how the
> coolant can boil BEFORE the radiator cap has blown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure

> 
>> That is what you learn at primary school!!
> 
> One of the things that they teach in primary school is grammar. Your
> senten ce should use "this" rather than "that" because you are only
> referencing on e thing (you can't have a "that" without a distinct
> "this," implying refere nces to at least two things). Also, the
> preposition should be "in" rather t han "at."

Your grammar perhaps. It's fine.

> 
> Getting back to the subject of boiling water; I don't understand why
> Earth has water vapor in the atmosphere. At sea-level, the boiling
> temperature of water is 212F --- but the temperature, even on the
> equator, never gets abo ve 120F. It seems as if all the water on the
> planet would drain into the oc eans, and then it would just stay there
> forever because the temperature on the surface of the ocean is almost
> 100F too cool for it to boil --- it seem s like the atmosphere and all
> of the land should be totally dry and barren --- why do we have clouds
> and precipitation at all?
> 

Vapor pressure again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure

You might have been taught that at school.

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-06 09:51 -0800
  Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-02-06 11:10 -0800
  Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-07 00:01 -0500
  Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-08 17:43 -0800
    Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-09 07:48 -0800
      Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-09 08:21 -0800
        Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-09 20:07 +0000
          Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-02-09 22:01 -0500
          Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-10 00:48 -0500
      Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-09 22:39 -0800
        Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-10 08:27 -0800
          Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-10 23:30 -0800
            Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-11 01:04 -0800
              Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-13 22:27 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-14 12:58 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-14 21:02 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-14 22:12 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-15 16:12 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-15 19:26 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-16 17:46 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-17 19:17 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Tessa Bonting <tessa.bonting@gmail.com> - 2015-02-18 07:00 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-02-18 11:42 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2015-02-18 19:27 +0200
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-18 17:54 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-18 18:32 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-18 18:58 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-18 20:10 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-02-19 11:18 +0000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-19 05:29 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Tessa Bonting <tessa.bonting@gmail.com> - 2015-02-19 06:24 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-19 19:40 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Tessa Bonting <tessa.bonting@gmail.com> - 2015-02-20 03:42 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-02-20 20:45 +0100
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-20 13:45 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-20 14:02 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-20 20:12 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-02-20 18:28 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-20 17:49 -1000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-02-21 08:09 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-21 09:12 -1000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-02-21 14:33 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-21 21:39 -1000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-22 09:13 +0000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-21 12:07 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-20 19:18 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-21 14:22 +0100
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-21 14:24 +0100
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-21 14:25 +0100
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-02-21 07:42 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-21 12:55 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-23 20:45 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-24 03:00 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-24 06:42 +0100
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-24 03:01 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-23 16:59 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-24 03:00 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-20 14:06 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-20 20:13 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-19 12:06 -1000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-19 19:38 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-19 16:47 -1000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-20 00:54 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-19 22:29 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-20 04:21 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-20 01:27 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-20 01:39 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-19 10:43 +0000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-02-18 11:39 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-16 01:24 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-16 19:17 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-17 01:14 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-18 17:36 -0800
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-19 11:47 +0000
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-02-18 11:47 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-18 20:29 -0500
                Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-19 00:55 -0800
            Re: The Technocrats Control Our Food Supply "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-12 20:03 -0500

csiph-web