Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories

Path	csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!not-for-mail
From	lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories
Date	Sun, 25 Jan 2015 21:05:55 +0000 (UTC)
Organization	PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Lines	37
Message-ID	<ma3lrj$gfr$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References	<878uhdum3e.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <m91soq$huq$1@dont-email.me> <87zj9jmcdo.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
Reply-To	rinkasu@kaze.void.null
NNTP-Posting-Host	panix5.panix.com
X-Trace	reader1.panix.com 1422219955 16891 166.84.1.5 (25 Jan 2015 21:05:55 GMT)
X-Complaints-To	abuse@panix.com
NNTP-Posting-Date	Sun, 25 Jan 2015 21:05:55 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent	nn/6.7.3
Xref	csiph.com comp.lang.forth:36020

Show key headers only | View raw

In <87zj9jmcdo.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

>I assume its use of blocks is traditional. The separation of edit time
>from compile time (i.e. with significant processing done at edit time)
>seems to come from colorforth.

Yes, the block use is pretty standard as Forths go.  And yes, it is directly
descended from colorForth.

>The whole thing has an interesting steampunk feel, it seems to me.  Why
>on earth does anyone with a modern PC tokenize the input at edit time
>in order to save at most a few milliseconds on compilation?  

It wasn't really designed for modern PCs.  It was designed for
considerably simpler targets, with the idea that code overlays could be
fully retained in source form and yet still added/removed "on the fly"
to make practical use of target memory.

Personally, I think the whole idea of pre-parsing is brilliant.  By
tokenizing at edit time, the compiler becomes much simpler, as there is
no further need to parse source code at that stage and do input number
conversion and whatnot.  If the programmer said this was a number at
edit time, then the compiler "just does" and will compile it as a
literal--no questions asked!  In a way, it extends the argument made
years ago against "state smart" words, making it the full responsibility
of the programmer to be aware of what he/she is doing rather than
leaving it to a "smart" compiler to figure out his/her intentions
through assumptions and ASCII parsing rules each time code is loaded.

A "few milliseconds" gain may seem silly on a single, powerful PC
loading code at the leisure of one user.  But if we're loading code on
say 10, 100, 1000, 10000+ targets simultaneously (the "massively
distributed" vision that appears to be hinted at by the GA144), that hit
each time--considered in aggregate--starts looking like a terrific
waste.  Waste that could have been resolved entirely at *edit* time at
one user's leisure, rather than multiplied out & repeated those tens,
hundreds, thousands, millions+ of times.

Thread

blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 11:08 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 12:35 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories empty-buffers <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2015-01-08 23:24 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 15:36 -0800
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 16:42 -1000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 22:55 -0800
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:12 -1000
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 23:27 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:41 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-09 02:21 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-09 09:21 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-09 13:07 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-09 11:46 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories empty-buffers <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2015-01-11 13:58 +0000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-01-13 14:37 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 18:30 -1000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 20:47 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 20:49 -1000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-09 13:02 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories a.daniel.eliason@gmail.com - 2015-01-08 14:45 -0800
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 15:50 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-01-08 22:34 -0500
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 17:48 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 21:13 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:09 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-01-09 09:34 +0100
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-01-09 12:26 +0100
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-01-09 08:10 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-01-09 03:36 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 14:14 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-09 15:25 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 20:20 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-09 20:47 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-09 13:08 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 21:34 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-10 14:00 -0800
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-11 11:45 -0800
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-09 13:28 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-10 22:41 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-10 18:49 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-11 09:27 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-01-11 11:51 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Steve Graham <jsgrahamus@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-12 14:46 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-13 00:30 +0000
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Wolf Wejgaard <wejgaard@gmail.com> - 2015-01-12 06:32 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-01-12 20:35 -0500
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-13 03:06 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-25 18:25 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 23:08 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2015-01-16 03:09 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-16 18:25 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-25 21:05 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-01-26 01:08 +0100
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-26 00:56 +0000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-26 02:12 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-26 18:09 +0000
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-27 07:42 +0000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 01:25 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-29 10:20 +0000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-01-26 12:10 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-01-26 22:18 +0100
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 08:44 -0500
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-01-14 10:23 +1100
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-13 19:47 -0800

csiph-web