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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #33835

Re: Metrics on stack usage

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Metrics on stack usage
Date 2014-10-11 03:33 +0200
Organization 1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID <m1a1cr$vpo$1@online.de> (permalink)
References (23 earlier) <m14pio$2fq$1@dont-email.me> <m17i9k$fue$1@online.de> <m17pik$dqa$1@dont-email.me> <m19kvg$u1h$1@online.de> <m19rta$vua$1@dont-email.me>

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rickman wrote:
>> If I wanted to program boilerplates, I would be doing Java.
> 
> You can use hyperbole if you want, but I'd like to be clear on this.  If
> you need to add two or three libraries to the boilerplate of your code,
> you consider that to be a problem???

It's as simple as that: Boilerplating is a problem.  The more boilerplate 
you need, the more of a problem.  If you can remove boilerplate, it's good.

Verilog had this K&R-style C module declarations, where you put the names of 
the parameters in the parenthesis after the module name, and then again 
declared them as input or output with size afterwards.  Verilog 2001 added a 
ANSI C style declaration, where you can state input/output inside the 
parenthesis, and therefore, the duplication of the names goes away, the 
overall declaration is shorter, and more concise.

This is an improvement.

If you think that conciseness doesn't matter, you are heading in the wrong 
direction.  And yes, heading in the wrong direction is the root of all 
problems.  Each individual problem is not big, but together, they make a 
mountain, if you don't think that they are problems and should be solved.

> Ok, but you keep backing away from your initial statements and don't
> actually provide any real evidence of the ones you do make.

Well, you were right that I should have just plonked you.  This sort of "ah, 
a proof.  I now require that you make it harder.  And if you do, I require 
that you make it yet even harder.  Each time, I do so, you will have to 
remove some parts of your analysis, because it doesn't meet the required 
standards, and finally, there's nothing left."

But if you would have to proof that Infineon is still a VHDL-only shop as it 
was 15 years ago, when it was called Siemens HL, there would be ample 
evidence against your claim.  Your position is way weaker than mine.

> I'm not sure why you say Verilog is better for gate level simulation.
> You continue to make unsubstantiated claims, then extrapolate from those
> claims.

No.  You keep ignoring reality, you don't do any own research, and you don't 
want to listen.  You might just look into the VHDL FAQ to verify that my 
gatelevel simulation claim is not unsubstantiated:

https://www.doulos.com/knowhow/faq/vhdl_faq/

"You don't need to change your VHDL netlist; your ASIC vendor needs to have 
a VITAL compliant library though, in order for you to take advantage of the 
simulation speed up. Thus the ASIC vendor's library elements need to be 
implemented entirely in VITAL primitives. Note that many companies use 
Verilog for gate-level simulations as it is still faster than VHDL, even 
with the improvemens from VITAL. The reason is that Verilog was designed 
from the start as a gate-level simulation langauge."

Yes, Verilog was designed right from start to do it right, while VHDL had 
gate level simulation as an afterthought, did improve its poor performance 
with VITAL, but still is worse than Verilog (netlist simulation is slow, so 
you want the fastest netlist simulator you can get - and then you want a 
faster one).  VITAL is modeled after Verilog's UDP primitive, so it offers 
similar capabilities.  As the netlist has only VITAL types, it may have 
severy type compatibility issues with the RTL netlist.

And that's why you won't get VITAL models from many gate library suppliers: 
The Verilog library is a must-have, you go out of business if you don't have 
them.  They not only contain information for gate-level simulation, but also 
for timing analysis and fault analysis - and this means other tools depend 
on them, as well.  The VITAL models are not really vital at all.  In fact, 
my boss 15 years ago kept nagging fabs about VITAL models, and they all said 
"nay, use Verilog".  And I haven't seen any standard cell libraries with 
VITAL models to download - you get GDS, you get Verilog, you get abstracts, 
you get timing, you get design compiler models, but no VITAL.

This sort of thing is not a language issue as such, but a competition issue: 
If there's some other language out there who does the thing better, the 
situation of the language which does it worse will get even worse.

> I have no idea what you are talking about with netlist simulations in
> Verilog.  You are talking about a tool problem.  Get a decent tool!

You don't get the VITAL models from the standard cell library vendor.  
That's not a tool issue.  Setting up a VHDL-Verilog mixed simulation is a 
lot of work, even if you use the best tools you can get (and it has a lot of 
issues).  Setting up a Verilog-only simulation is much easier.  Of course, 
in Verilog, it's "the entire project in one file", but you are allowed to 
use `include, and `ifdef, and you can set variables when invoking the 
simulator.  So a typical test bench wrapper looks like

`ifdef NETLIST
 `include "stdcell-lib.v"
 `include "gate-level.v"
`else
 `include "rtl.v"
`endif

and somewhere a

`ifdef NETLIST
  initial
    $sdf_annotate("gate-level.sdf", top.dut);
`endif

> Are you saying you don't use any boilerplate?

I'm saying that boilerplate is a problem, not a solution.  If I can get away 
without any boilerplate, then I do.

Seems to be a pretty alien concept to you.

Like Forth, Verilog hasn't had separate compilation at start (modern tools 
support it, but they also support to recognize unchanged modules on 
reinvocation, so it's a non-issue).  So you had one file, and other files 
could be loaded with `include "filename".  So if you use a library, you 
specify it in the loader file, once for the entire project.  That's what you 
do with Forth projects, too.

If you write a Java project, every class has to reside in a file of its own.  
All the common libraries you use in the entire project go to the 
boilerplate, instead of going into the loader file.  You can keep every 
class (or whatever conceptual unit you have) in one file in your Forth 
project, as well, but since it's just loaded from the loader file, all 
common libraries don't have to be specified in each file.

People who are used to boilerplates are used to cut&paste, and what I've 
often seen is that they copy a big portion of their previous code to change 
it to their next code.  A significant portion of the 5000 VHDL lines I had 
mentioned were created by cut&paste, and then when a bug was discovered in 
one copy, you had to go through all other copies to fix those bugs, too.

You might think you get more LoCs per hour out with cut&paste style 
programming, but in the end, you don't.

> BTW, you never answered my question about which "side by side" book you
> have.

I actually haven't, Mikron had.  The book has long been lost (we pruned our 
libriaries when we moved, and either one of the designers took it with him 
or we sold it on e-Bay; after some time every new hire already had "Verilog" 
in his CV, so we didn't need it anymore), and I don't know the exact title.  
Don't ask me too many details about stuff more than a decade ago, I have a 
good memory, but I'm not an elephant.

You are just setting way too high standards to every argument so that you 
can claim you won by me not meeting the standards you require.  Since you 
have double standards (your own arguments are ok if they apply to sample 
size 1, which is you yourself, and don't require any proof), it is of course 
impossible to win any arguments with you.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 11:22 -0400
  Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-16 11:41 -0400
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 13:20 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-16 13:39 -0400
        Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 15:11 -0400
          Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-16 17:24 -0400
            Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-17 17:58 -0400
  Re: Metrics on stack usage barrym95838@yahoo.com - 2014-09-16 08:47 -0700
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 14:41 -0400
    Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-09-16 18:55 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-16 14:33 -1000
        Re: Metrics on stack usage barrym95838@yahoo.com - 2014-09-16 18:30 -0700
  Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-16 15:44 +0000
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 13:22 -0400
  Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-16 09:18 -0700
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 15:39 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-16 09:41 -1000
      Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-16 16:11 -0700
        Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-17 16:34 -0400
        Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-17 17:26 -0400
          Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-19 07:21 -0400
            Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-19 10:01 -0400
              Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-19 07:42 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-19 14:46 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-19 08:09 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 03:41 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-20 15:31 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 14:53 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-22 16:44 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 15:52 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-09-30 00:08 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 04:26 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-22 10:48 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-22 12:26 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-22 17:07 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-17 07:20 +0000
        Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-17 17:03 -0400
          Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-18 11:40 +0000
            Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-19 09:56 -0400
            Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-22 10:54 -0400
              Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-22 15:13 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-22 13:58 -0400
              Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-22 11:13 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-22 21:59 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-22 16:57 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 00:59 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-22 19:53 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-23 03:48 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-23 16:01 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-23 08:07 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-09-23 22:11 +0100
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-23 16:22 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-23 11:28 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-24 11:56 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-24 13:52 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-24 17:00 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-24 17:04 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-24 16:08 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-24 12:23 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-29 19:33 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-25 10:02 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-25 18:48 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-24 16:58 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-24 16:02 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-24 19:14 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-29 10:15 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-24 13:54 -1000
                Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-09-24 21:07 -0400
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-24 15:25 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-24 18:43 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-24 16:08 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 01:11 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 09:53 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-29 13:38 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-29 17:53 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-30 09:13 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-30 22:37 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-03 16:10 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-03 08:42 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 14:59 -0400
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-03 09:07 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 17:28 -0400
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-04 11:15 -0700
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-10-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-07 15:07 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-10-11 23:32 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-12 03:03 +0200
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-10-12 10:42 -0500
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-13 00:26 +0200
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-11 19:30 -1000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-08 03:42 +0200
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-10-08 02:46 -0500
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-09 00:43 +0200
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-10-11 23:32 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-09-28 18:45 +0000
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-09-25 09:22 +0200
                Re: Typing, was [Re: Metrics on stack usage] Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-09-28 17:09 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-09-25 01:43 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 01:15 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-25 10:19 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 01:06 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 04:25 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 03:15 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 14:43 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-25 22:23 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-29 13:42 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-29 14:23 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-29 10:14 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-29 17:10 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-29 12:31 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-29 21:07 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-05 01:34 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-10-05 03:29 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-05 13:46 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-05 15:49 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-06 03:44 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-06 00:12 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-05 18:56 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-06 01:34 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-06 19:57 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-07 04:49 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-07 16:21 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-08 05:43 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-09 02:35 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-08 21:48 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-10 05:03 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-10 01:07 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-10 21:27 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-11 00:01 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-10 19:59 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-11 03:33 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-10 22:30 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-11 15:22 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-11 22:24 -0400
                Loading libraries (was: Metrics on stack usage) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-11 09:23 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-10 16:11 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-10 16:36 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-10 22:38 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-17 23:39 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-10-11 12:25 +0100
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-07 07:52 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 00:34 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-01 23:26 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 16:15 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-01 21:57 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-02 01:20 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 15:59 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-02 19:29 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-03 15:03 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-05 02:27 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-10-05 09:22 +0100
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-23 19:36 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-24 13:40 -0700
  Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-16 17:06 +0000
  Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-16 07:43 -1000
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-16 15:04 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-16 09:34 -1000
        Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-17 17:30 -0400
          Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-17 12:42 -1000
            Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-18 11:33 +0000
              Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-18 11:53 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-19 01:14 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-19 03:32 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-19 12:41 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-19 12:14 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-20 15:41 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage mhx@iae.nl - 2014-09-19 12:31 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-21 12:59 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-19 12:05 +0000
              Re: Metrics on stack usage Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2014-09-21 07:44 +0200
  Re: Metrics on stack usage Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-09-17 11:10 +0200
  Re: Metrics on stack usage stephen@mpeforth.com - 2014-09-17 14:20 -0700
    Re: Metrics on stack usage Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-09-17 17:41 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-17 16:44 -0700
        Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-18 10:26 +0000
          Re: Metrics on stack usage Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-09-19 00:12 +0200
            Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-18 19:15 -0400
            Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-18 17:14 -0700
              Re: Metrics on stack usage stephen@mpeforth.com - 2014-09-19 02:59 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-19 12:20 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage stephen@mpeforth.com - 2014-09-20 09:04 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-29 18:08 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-09-30 04:33 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-01 19:30 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-30 11:24 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-09-30 10:55 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-09-30 18:39 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 01:44 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-10-01 03:57 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-01 18:45 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 07:53 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage G Smith <do.not.use@tectimco.com> - 2014-10-02 13:22 +0100
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 08:36 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 15:34 -0700
            Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-19 12:08 +0000
              Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-09-19 18:58 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-09-19 13:28 -1000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-09-19 19:57 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-21 13:09 +0000
              Re: Metrics on stack usage Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 13:27 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 08:04 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-20 08:55 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 15:01 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-20 17:34 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 19:15 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-21 03:34 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 06:57 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-21 07:31 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 18:04 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-21 15:17 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 18:49 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-21 15:57 -0700
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 19:47 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-22 02:58 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 05:28 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-09-21 11:24 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 07:55 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-09-20 14:57 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-20 15:22 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-09-20 15:25 +0000
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 15:08 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-20 17:38 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 19:19 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-09-21 03:35 -0500
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 07:00 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 08:54 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 03:26 -0400
                Re: Metrics on stack usage Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 10:03 +0200
                Re: Metrics on stack usage rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 05:29 -0400
      Re: Metrics on stack usage stephen@mpeforth.com - 2014-09-19 02:53 -0700

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