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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #29799

Re: One for Elizabeth...

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: One for Elizabeth...
Date 2014-04-24 01:20 +0200
Organization 1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID <lj9hss$vj9$1@online.de> (permalink)
References <5c56c350-73d1-4a9d-9c39-509d8c27870b@googlegroups.com> <ZvKdnQIbWYSgIMvOnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@supernews.com> <bef1c062-85ea-4cdd-ae62-a9306dfb1a1c@googlegroups.com>

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Jecel wrote:

> Elizabeth,
> 
> great story! Thanks for telling it.
> 
>> [...] The lead IBM engineer said, "We
>> have 300 programmers in Boca Raton, FL, working on software for the
>> Series 1, and have a macro assembler working. How can you have all
>> this?" I replied, "Because we don't try to do it with 300 programmers."
> 
> They had heard something similar from Seymour Cray in the 1960s about the
> CDC 6600. It obviously hadn't sunk in, yet.

Somebody called Fred Brooks even wrote a book about that sort of 
miscalculation...  and this guy even was employed by IBM ;-).

Early march, I was meeting with other people who are creating a new internet 
(like my net2o, but bigger - for me, this is to exchange ideas, because I 
deliberately don't like the idea of "bigger"), and some sponsors, and one 
question from the sponsors was how long it would take if they had a billion 
euros.  Well, with a billion euros, you can hire 10k people for a year, or 
1000 people for 10 years.  And then, whatever they do, will take a long 
time, because 1000 people create so much overhead that it takes very long.

In this case, it's even worse: the more people you have, the less secure it 
will be.  We know that you maybe can get down to one bug per 5000 LoCs.  So 
if you have half a million LoCs (like GNUnet has), you'll finally have 100 
bugs - if it is all well-debugged and written in a clean and straight-
forward way (which GNUnet isn't).  And even not very "severe" bugs can break 
security.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

One for Elizabeth... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 03:02 -0700
  Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-22 09:04 -1000
    Re: One for Elizabeth... Jecel <jecel@merlintec.com> - 2014-04-23 15:37 -0700
      Re: One for Elizabeth... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-24 01:20 +0200
        Re: One for Elizabeth... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-24 17:24 +0000
          Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-25 00:22 -0400
            Re: One for Elizabeth... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-25 00:53 -0700
            Re: One for Elizabeth... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-25 05:16 -0700
            Re: One for Elizabeth... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 10:19 +0000
              Re: One for Elizabeth... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-25 09:40 -0500
                Re: One for Elizabeth... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 15:01 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-25 10:57 -0500
                Re: One for Elizabeth... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 16:58 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-04-26 07:52 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-25 09:01 -1000
        Re: One for Elizabeth... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 01:17 -0700
      Re: One for Elizabeth... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 01:16 -0700
    Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-23 22:12 -0700
      Re: One for Elizabeth... Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-24 11:02 -0600
        Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-24 19:21 -0700
          Re: One for Elizabeth... Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-24 21:52 -0600
        Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-25 00:27 -0400
      Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-24 20:24 -0700
    Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-24 19:40 -0700
      Re: One for Elizabeth... Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-24 21:57 -0600
      Re: One for Elizabeth... "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> - 2014-04-25 21:04 -0400
        Re: One for Elizabeth... Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-25 15:57 -1000
          Re: One for Elizabeth... Steve Graham <jsgrahamus@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 11:49 -0700
            Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-26 10:30 -1000
          Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-27 17:55 -0700
            Re: One for Elizabeth... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-28 11:33 +0000
              Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-28 20:53 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-29 07:46 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-28 21:57 -1000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-01 20:59 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-02 07:46 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-02 20:31 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-03 08:26 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-03 19:33 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 03:35 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-04 11:06 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-05 01:11 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-05 20:45 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2014-05-06 12:53 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-07 09:59 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 12:12 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-08 02:05 +0200
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-10 23:01 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-05 20:58 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-05-06 07:16 +0200
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-05 20:52 -1000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 01:17 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-06 11:13 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-06 07:12 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-06 10:57 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-06 17:06 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 07:52 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-05-06 17:11 +0200
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 08:57 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-07 00:38 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-07 22:56 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 04:10 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... thomas.worthington@london.ac.uk - 2014-05-08 04:42 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 11:17 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-07 00:31 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-07 00:23 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 02:29 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-07 13:39 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-08 01:26 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-08 04:11 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-08 08:34 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-08 11:04 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-08 17:28 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 02:55 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-09 10:42 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-09 19:59 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-09 20:25 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 05:24 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-05-12 22:08 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 22:11 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-13 22:37 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-14 04:09 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-05-14 04:44 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-14 05:05 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-14 20:53 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-15 01:08 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-18 22:23 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Whammo <sidciavic@gmail.com> - 2014-05-19 09:48 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-21 19:50 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-22 00:46 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-19 22:37 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-21 23:58 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-21 19:24 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-22 11:05 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-22 23:19 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-23 11:34 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-26 11:44 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-27 14:20 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 10:30 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-27 19:58 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 07:45 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-28 03:03 -0500
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-28 16:36 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 23:03 -0400
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 11:01 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-30 16:44 +0000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-29 08:25 -1000
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-21 23:32 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-26 11:15 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-27 19:42 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-27 20:23 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 09:14 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-28 16:25 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-29 20:47 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-29 20:28 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 22:24 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-30 21:49 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-29 23:40 +0200
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-29 19:47 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-05-08 14:36 +0100
                Re: One for Elizabeth... visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-08 10:46 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-07 22:24 -0700
                Re: One for Elizabeth... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2014-05-04 13:46 -0400

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