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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #38472

Re: rhel 7 and kforth

From Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: rhel 7 and kforth
Date 2015-04-21 18:18 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87sibtx8ob.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <c686b94d-a564-4a71-be2a-5b2eb635f34d@googlegroups.com> <87pp73wi24.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> <55337eb7$0$21337$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl> <2015Apr20.140504@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <mh6mbf$90o$1@dont-email.me>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> looking at the decompilation of VARIABLE in Gforth, VFX, and
>> SwiftForth, the 0 comes from explicit initialization, not by
>> accident.
> There's a reason why all these Forths you looked at zero-initialize 
> variables: It makes the program behave deterministic.  The question is: 
> should we put this into the standard?

Those are all PC-hosted Forths with nothing like the memory constraints
of traditional small-machine Forths.  It looks like Mikael's Flashforth
telnet server isn't around any more, but I looked at the source code to
the Atmega version and while I may have missed something, it looks to me
like variables don't get zeroed when allocated.

Certainly one can argue in favor of standarizing zero-initialization on
determinism grounds.  One can argue, on resource constraint grounds or
in the general spirit of Forth minimalism, that it shouldn't be
standardized and programmers shouldn't rely on it (except through
documented environmental dependencies).  Silliest of all though would be
to not standardize it, but notice that it happens to work anyway in some
particular implementations, and then accuse other implementations of
"miscompiling" even though what they do is allowed by the standard.

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rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-15 11:20 -0700
  Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-15 19:09 -0700
  Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 04:13 -0700
    Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 04:55 -0700
      Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-16 12:08 +0000
        Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 05:29 -0700
          Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 07:07 -0700
            Re: rhel 7 and kforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-04-16 07:44 -0700
              Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 08:14 -0700
          Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-16 14:02 +0000
            Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 08:12 -0700
      Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 12:25 -0700
        Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 17:02 -0700
          Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 17:06 -0700
            Re: rhel 7 and kforth foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2015-04-16 17:24 -0700
              Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 17:39 -0700
              Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 17:47 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 18:44 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 18:50 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 19:10 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 19:29 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-16 20:10 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:27 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 02:04 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-17 11:41 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 14:45 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 14:01 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 07:47 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 08:35 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 10:33 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 11:15 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 11:47 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 14:51 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 14:41 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-24 11:42 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-24 09:02 -1000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 10:53 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-05-03 17:22 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-04 10:23 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-22 00:10 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 17:45 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-22 13:08 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-17 20:27 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 14:41 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 14:11 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 15:47 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 14:34 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-18 14:09 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-19 20:31 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-20 11:35 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 18:07 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-22 11:21 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-24 19:34 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-25 08:36 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-25 11:36 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-25 16:29 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-19 10:08 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-19 20:11 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-20 12:05 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-22 01:27 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 18:18 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-22 11:00 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-24 11:28 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-25 01:34 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-24 21:07 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-25 16:41 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-25 10:06 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-26 14:56 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-26 20:22 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-27 09:02 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-27 03:59 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-27 15:45 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-27 18:09 -0400
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-28 03:55 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-27 19:30 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-27 19:44 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-28 02:03 -0400
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 01:44 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-28 02:44 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-28 16:47 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 17:00 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-28 17:14 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 17:59 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-28 21:41 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-29 03:07 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 18:13 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-29 00:07 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-28 22:22 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 14:23 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-28 23:51 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-28 16:50 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-05-10 12:24 -0400
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-26 22:16 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-27 09:19 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-27 04:03 -0700
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-27 18:21 -0400
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-01 14:46 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-23 16:46 +0200
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-17 10:35 +0000
                Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 08:43 -0700
  Re: rhel 7 and kforth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-17 08:41 -0700

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