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Re: Formal specifications etc.

From Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Formal specifications etc.
Date 2014-06-05 14:15 -0700
Organization Nightsong/Fort GNOX
Message-ID <7xppinqcqx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <lmfu8n$95f$1@online.de> <7xbnu7ewo7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <lmpt18$7k2$1@online.de> <2014Jun5.173405@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <lmqltb$vt7$1@online.de>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
> Paul Rubin quickly jumped on the formal spec (point 1 of 6), because he's 
> believing in that stuff.  I'm believing in points 3 to 6 (4 points 
> alltogether), and think the formal spec stuff is mostly a placebo. 

I know that Altran/Praxis puts a lot of emphasis on the spec and
verification (they were the original developer and vendor of SPARK,
iirc, and they go on about it in other publications).  The other stuff
in the 6 points certainly matters too.  The Tokeneer page[1] has more
info and I see now, the 38 loc/day figure really was over the whole
length of the project (coding phase was 203 loc/day), so that's
impressive.  I think I'm reporting what Altron itself believes to be
important, whether or not they are right.  I haven't used the stuff
myself yet, though I've been interested in it.

There is some verified crypto stuff here that I've been wanting to look at:

   http://git.codelabs.ch/?p=spark-crypto.git;a=tree

[1] https://www.adacore.com/sparkpro/tokeneer/

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Thread

MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 21:35 -0400
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 19:09 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 19:13 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 23:00 -0400
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:25 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 20:23 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 22:15 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 15:13 +0200
          Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 13:51 -0400
            Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:08 +0200
          Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 12:22 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:41 +0200
              Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 13:28 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 17:55 -0400
            Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 16:29 -0400
              Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 14:18 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 18:07 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 17:24 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-02 11:10 +0200
        Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-02 10:57 +0000
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-02 13:34 +0200
    Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 20:10 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:29 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 21:02 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-30 04:05 -0400
    Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 15:13 +0200
  Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 19:57 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 23:32 -0400
      Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 21:07 -0700
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 02:39 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-17 12:40 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:08 -0400
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-07-18 00:06 +0200
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-18 08:22 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-07-18 23:42 +0200
            Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 18:28 -0400
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-07-19 01:41 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 19:48 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-18 16:59 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-07-19 14:30 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 08:23 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-07-21 10:42 +0200
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 03:03 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 07:47 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 11:36 -0400
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-31 09:34 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 10:09 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-31 10:52 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 01:28 -0400
            Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 22:41 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 02:00 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 23:07 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 03:13 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 07:15 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 12:33 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 09:45 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 13:10 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 18:38 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-06-01 11:40 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 11:13 +0200
              Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-01 09:50 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 04:05 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 12:39 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 10:00 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-06-01 11:45 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 14:57 -0400
            Re: MSP430-Stamp "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 12:01 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 15:12 -0400
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 03:12 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 14:02 -0400
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 03:33 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 07:19 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 12:01 -0400
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 09:15 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 13:51 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 14:20 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 14:51 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 16:22 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-01 01:33 +0200
            Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-31 17:31 -1000
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 21:48 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-31 19:12 -1000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 22:25 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-06-01 09:45 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 04:16 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-01 08:51 -1000
            Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 21:03 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-01 21:17 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-04 22:46 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-05 13:27 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 08:39 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-05 16:10 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 11:10 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-05 19:52 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-05 23:25 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 15:02 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-06 10:56 +0000
                Correct Software and Specifications (was Re: MSP430-Stamp) Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-06-09 09:59 +0100
                Re: MSP430-Stamp mhx@iae.nl - 2014-06-05 14:30 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-06 10:59 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-05 15:57 +0200
                Formal specifications etc. (was: MSP430-Stamp) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-06-05 15:34 +0000
                Re: Formal specifications etc. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 11:48 -0700
                Re: Formal specifications etc. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-06-05 19:46 +0000
                Re: Formal specifications etc. (was: MSP430-Stamp) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-05 23:02 +0200
                Re: Formal specifications etc. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 14:15 -0700
                Re: Formal specifications etc. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 17:33 -0400
                Re: Formal specifications etc. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 15:32 -0700
                Re: Formal specifications etc. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-06 04:00 -0500
                Re: Formal specifications etc. (was: MSP430-Stamp) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-06 11:05 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-05 11:01 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-06 01:09 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 22:01 -0400
        Re: MSP430-Stamp stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-31 16:47 +0000
    Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 12:11 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-06 12:54 +0200
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-02 11:39 +0200
    Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 12:15 -0400
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-03 10:26 +0200
        Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 12:18 -0400
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-02 10:04 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-03 11:51 +0200
        Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 13:33 -0400
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-06 13:02 +0200
            Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 17:31 -0400
              Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-06 16:30 -1000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 22:52 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-07 11:58 +0000
              Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-07 11:40 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 20:01 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-08 16:05 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 22:28 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 20:36 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-08 21:38 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 14:36 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 02:45 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 03:18 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 15:57 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-08 16:20 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-03 20:42 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-03 21:05 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-04 10:43 +0000
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-03 21:28 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 22:43 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-03 23:31 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 04:13 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-03 01:41 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-03 01:51 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 16:19 +0100
          Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-03 09:14 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 13:19 -0400
            Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-03 07:43 -1000
              Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-03 20:56 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-04 10:51 +0000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp VisualForth <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 04:06 -0700
  Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 21:26 -0400
    Re: MSP430-Stamp "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 20:40 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 03:18 -0700
  Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 04:35 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-07 12:01 -0700
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 03:47 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 09:28 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 07:35 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-11 10:43 -0700
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 15:52 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-06-12 02:06 +0200
                Re: MSP430-Stamp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-11 15:13 -1000
                Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 02:16 -0700
            Re: MSP430-Stamp Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 12:56 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 16:46 -0400
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 03:49 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-09 09:47 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Rikard Lang <rikard.lang@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 23:16 +0200
      Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-10 07:48 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 07:23 -0700
          Re: MSP430-Stamp David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-11 18:00 -0500
            Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 02:14 -0400
              Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 02:13 -0700
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 13:04 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-12 18:06 -0500
                Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 19:29 -0400
                Re: MSP430-Stamp David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-13 18:48 -0500
      Re: MSP430-Stamp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 07:26 -0700
        Re: MSP430-Stamp visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-11 10:45 -0700
  Re: MSP430-Stamp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-06-13 00:03 -0700
    Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-18 11:11 +0200
      Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-18 05:27 -0400
        Re: MSP430-Stamp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-06-18 12:29 +0200
          Re: MSP430-Stamp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:09 -0400

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