Re: Compiled Forth

Date	2015-04-06 09:01 +0100
From	Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Compiled Forth
Message-ID	<20150406090108.405043cd@T60A> (permalink)
References	<ae5a0147-ac8e-4dc9-ae19-9f67b39bca0a@googlegroups.com> <552105ef$0$21268$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl> <87y4m64d3o.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <mft6tp$i58$1@dont-email.me>

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On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 08:52:48 +0300
Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/5/15 21:57, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> > albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
> > > By the way, I would be interested to have your bignums integrated
> > > in ciforth. That would mean replacing the lowest layer with
> > > transparant allocation ... ciforth has a small ALLOCATE
> >
> > I don't see a reasonable way to do this without garbage collection.
> > How are you going to free the bignums?
> 
> That's why 8th uses reference-counted GC.  Items (strings, numbers, etc) 
> are allocated from pools of that kind of item.  When an item's reference 
> count returns to 0, it is cleaned-up (deallocated, resources released, 
> etc).  The items inside the pools themselves are not deallocated until 
> the program quits, though.

In Python (2.x), stack items are all object pointers, but the objects 
are small, containing only the ref count and a pointer to the data. 
Because of the extra level of indirection the ref counts are bunched, 
and likely to get a cache hit.  Ref count adjustment is only needed 
for stack operations like DUP or DROP which create or remove data refs. 

Also, as in 8th, Python pools the data for small objects, so accessing 
integers is also likely to get a cache hit.  Not sure how much this 
might apply to bignums. 

In a hardware stack engine, with tagged bignum data, the object 
reference count maintenance would be automatic.  Also, the tagging 
would allow bignums to be natural stack items, and remove the need 
for indirection and garbage management for these. 

Although having more data types as objects has a clear cost, this 
can be minimised in both soft and hard bignum implementations. 

Jan Coombs
-- 
email valid, else fix dots and hyphen
jan4clf2014@murrayhyphenmicroftdotcodotuk

Thread

Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-04 12:02 -0700
  Re: Compiled Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-04 14:43 -1000
    Re: Compiled Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 18:16 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 10:58 -0700
    Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 10:52 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-06 15:35 +0000
        Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 08:51 -0700
          Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-06 15:32 -0700
            Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 16:28 -0700
              Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-08 13:58 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 14:41 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-08 14:01 -1000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-09 00:06 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 16:48 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 10:23 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 18:04 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-09 10:31 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-09 17:57 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-09 11:06 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 09:17 -0700
        Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 09:01 -0700
  Re: Compiled Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-05 09:32 +0000
    Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 11:02 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-04-06 18:35 +1000
  Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-05 09:52 +0000
    Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 11:20 -0700
    Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 11:57 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 12:05 -0700
        Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 12:47 -0700
          Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 13:36 -0700
            Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 13:57 -0700
              Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 14:37 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 15:10 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 15:23 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 08:52 +0300
        Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 23:09 -0700
          Re: Compiled Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 10:12 +0300
          Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 00:15 -0700
            Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 01:05 -0700
              Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 01:27 -0700
            Re: Compiled Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-06 12:20 +0000
          Re: Compiled Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-06 12:10 +0000
            Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 11:45 -0700
              Re: Compiled Forth Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-04-06 21:16 +0200
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 12:55 -0700
        Re: Compiled Forth Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-06 09:01 +0100
          Re: Compiled Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 11:27 +0300
      Re: Compiled Forth Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-06 08:06 +0100
      Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-06 14:15 +0000
  Re: Compiled Forth stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-06 11:32 +0000
  Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 08:01 -0700
    Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 12:04 -0700
      Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 12:58 -0700
        Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 13:29 -0700
          Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 16:44 -0700
            Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-06 19:59 -0700
              Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 01:31 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 01:36 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-07 12:00 +0100
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 04:25 -0700
                Proposal for ALLOCATEd bignum's Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-07 12:41 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 21:40 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-09 00:18 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 23:43 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 04:07 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 04:37 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 04:45 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 12:02 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 07:21 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 07:53 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 09:43 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 16:43 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 11:03 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 18:26 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-10 11:27 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 11:36 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-10 11:56 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-10 12:20 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 13:00 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-10 13:14 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 13:29 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-10 16:08 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 23:08 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-11 01:59 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 02:20 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 02:44 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-11 11:21 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-11 11:43 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-11 19:44 +0000
                Re: Compiled Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-11 12:51 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 15:26 -0700
                Re: Compiled Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 04:50 -0700

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