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Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth
Date 2013-01-21 17:28 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2013Jan21.182830@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <3242f719-8f64-4c56-bd2e-39579f7bab60@i1g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <ae9ad6ca-dd83-421c-8c83-9c868af3f1da@googlegroups.com> <kda9q4$3g3$1@speranza.aioe.org> <3381911.3ZU4d4d4Dr@sunwukong.fritz.box> <kdfi3o$47s$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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"Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> writes:
>Take locals - allegedly "optional" in ANS.  Should a Forth Standard expect
>Forth CPU's to have the resources to efficiently implement foreign notions
>such as locals because the Standard libraries that you load could well be
>full of them?

The standard does not expect anything of Forth CPUs.  It describes the
interface between standard programs and standard systems.

If a Forth CPU designer wants to cater for the kind of libraries you
have in mind, he can provide hardware features that the system
implementor can then use to support locals efficiently.  Or he might
decide not to provide such features, and the system implementor can
implement locals without them.

However, the minimal support that, e.g., VFX, has for locals
demonstrates that locals have less importance even among people
embracing the standard than you imagine.

>ANS may not be responsible for poorly written code but they provided the tools
>and the justification to use them.  I've seen 40-line definitions that would have
>been impossible to write, were it not for the 12 locals scattered throughout.

A definition with 12 locals in not Forth-94 compliant.

>Had that many regular variables been used, it would almost certainly be
>regarded as unrepresentative of what Forth could/should be.

On the contrary, I regularly see here people twist themselves to
contortions to avoid locals, or to suggest using global variables in
place of locals, even though global variables are more problematic
than locals in nearly all respects.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/

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structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 04:22 -0800
  Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-11 05:47 -0800
    Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:12 -0800
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:18 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:20 -0800
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:19 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:38 -0800
          Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:51 -0800
            Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 07:10 -0800
            Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 07:58 -0800
              Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 10:01 -0500
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:25 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:28 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:33 -0800
          Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:37 -0800
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:56 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 08:03 -0800
          Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 08:06 -0800
            Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 12:27 -0800
              Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 17:32 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 23:21 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 23:41 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-13 23:43 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 00:02 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-14 22:43 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-14 02:41 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-01-14 11:13 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-14 11:16 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-14 21:27 +0200
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-14 03:34 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3  in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-14 12:53 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3  in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-17 17:31 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-21 19:35 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-14 02:55 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 10:14 -0500
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-14 20:04 +0100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-21 19:57 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 23:19 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-24 18:58 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-25 15:46 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 19:09 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-26 01:12 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-26 12:58 +0200
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-26 04:42 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-26 14:35 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 22:38 -0800
            Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 12:36 -0800
              Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 17:33 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-14 22:46 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 10:20 -0500
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-14 10:41 -0600
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-17 17:34 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 22:48 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 22:49 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 23:55 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-01-18 12:50 +1100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-18 23:31 +0100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-01-20 12:42 +1100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-20 01:24 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-20 15:51 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-21 22:14 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-21 19:14 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-20 11:13 +0100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-20 02:45 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-21 17:14 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-23 01:52 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 04:25 -0600
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-23 15:20 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-23 09:29 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-23 17:40 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-23 22:03 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-24 22:13 +1300
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 02:57 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-26 13:49 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-26 12:40 -1000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-26 23:20 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-27 09:52 +0200
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2013-01-23 23:05 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3  in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-21 17:05 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3  in forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-21 19:28 +0100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3   in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-22 17:43 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2013-01-22 19:12 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-01-21 12:13 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-21 17:28 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-22 18:06 +0000
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-22 19:30 +0100
              Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 23:06 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 02:20 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 03:36 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 06:51 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-01-24 22:14 +1100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-01-27 20:39 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-02-01 22:07 +1100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-02-01 22:53 +1100
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 19:50 -0800
                Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-08 19:22 -1000
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-11 11:44 -0600
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 12:34 -0800
    Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 06:18 -0800
  Re:structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 00:13 +0100
    Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 19:12 -0500
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:26 -0800
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-01-14 08:29 +0000
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 23:52 +0100
    Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:31 -0800
    Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 23:19 -0800
      Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 22:46 -0800
        Re: structure and interpretation of computer programs exercsie 1.3 in forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 23:40 -0800

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