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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #17792

Re: DTC

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: DTC
Date 2012-12-01 15:34 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2012Dec1.163416@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <DMOdnf90lcNYxSvNnZ2dnUVZ8rqdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2700090.aQ2KJ0Axev@sunwukong.fritz.box> <DKKdnRsQzsib5CXNnZ2dnUVZ8gednZ2d@supernews.com> <2012Nov30.151239@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <8cudneSQd9MoQiXNnZ2dnUVZ8nWdnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> + Better utilization of I-Cache and D-cache
>
>That's interesting.  I suppose Forth words are so extremely small that
>you can get more than one of them in a single cache line, so it's
>worth packing them together without intervening stuff.  And you might
>get good enough locality for this to be useful, with a following wind.

The way I think about this is not on a per-word basis.  Instead,
consider the working set of the application: Does it fit in the
I-Cache and in the D-Cache, or conversely, how big would they have to
be to fit?  If you mix code with read-only data, the working-set will
grow (both in the I-cache and in the D-cache), and if the caches are
smaller than the working set, you will have more misses in these
caches.  Actually, even if the caches are big enough for the working
set, you will have more misses (compulsory misses), although the
absolute number of misses will be small.

>Is it really worth it?

Given that it was easier to implement that based on the earlier Gforth
implementation (which had no separate headers and no native code
(apart from the ITC-emulating DTC trampolines)) than to implement your
approach, yes, this advantage is definitely worth the negative cost.

How small or big the advantage is depends on the application and can
only be determined by implementing both variants in the same Forth
system and measuring the result.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/

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Thread

DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-27 08:01 -0800
  Re: DTC Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-11-27 08:55 -0800
    Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-27 09:01 -0800
  Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-27 17:42 -0800
    Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-27 23:50 -0800
      Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 04:41 -0600
        Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-28 02:48 -0800
          Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 05:27 -0600
            Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-28 03:51 -0800
              Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-28 21:56 -0800
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-29 01:26 -0800
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-29 22:34 -0800
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-30 01:42 -0800
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-30 13:18 -0800
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-01 01:42 -0800
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-03 15:25 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-03 16:18 -0800
                Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-12-03 21:20 -0500
                Re: DTC "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-12-03 17:29 -1000
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-04 00:12 -0800
                Re: DTC Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-12-05 11:35 -0800
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-04 20:17 -0800
                Re: DTC Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 08:31 +0200
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-04 23:48 -0800
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-04 23:53 -0800
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-05 12:13 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-05 15:26 -0800
                Re: DTC Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 06:32 +0200
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 01:07 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-06 04:23 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 15:49 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:42 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-06 08:30 -0800
                Re: DTC Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-12-06 09:45 -0800
                Re: DTC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-06 21:41 +0000
                Re: DTC "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-06 23:15 +0100
                Re: DTC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-08 01:27 +0000
                Re: DTC "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-08 11:19 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 03:55 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 13:44 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 06:05 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 18:35 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 11:20 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-09 01:01 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 06:10 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 18:57 +0100
                Re: DTC "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-08 19:46 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 11:23 -0800
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 13:37 +0100
                Re: DTC "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-08 14:41 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 06:15 -0800
                Re: DTC "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-08 17:07 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 14:16 -0800
                Re: DTC Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 09:00 -0800
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 14:21 -0800
                Re: DTC "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-12-06 08:01 -1000
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 14:18 -0800
                Re: DTC "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-12-06 13:48 -1000
                Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-12-06 19:03 -0500
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-07 02:59 -0800
                Re: DTC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-06 13:13 +0000
                Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-12-05 20:39 -0500
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 15:46 +0100
                Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:47 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-06 08:36 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-12-05 04:03 -0800
                Re: DTC "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 20:30 -0800
                Re: DTC David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-12-11 23:52 -0500
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-12 10:59 -0800
                Re: DTC David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-12-31 02:43 -0500
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-02 00:44 -0800
            Re: DTC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-11-28 13:54 +0000
              Re: DTC "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 20:16 -0800
    Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-11-28 06:58 -0500
      Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-28 04:50 -0800
        Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 07:08 -0600
          Re: DTC Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-11-28 06:02 -0800
            Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 08:23 -0600
          Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 14:18 +0000
            Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 08:32 -0600
              Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 15:00 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 09:18 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 16:36 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 11:02 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 17:13 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 12:03 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 18:12 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-28 12:32 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-29 14:30 +0000
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-11-29 18:05 +0100
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-11-29 11:19 -0800
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-30 03:14 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-30 14:12 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-30 10:32 -0600
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-30 16:40 +0000
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-12-01 15:34 +0000
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-01 21:23 +0100
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-12-03 16:28 +0000
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-03 18:44 +0100
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-12-03 04:50 -0600
                Re: DTC Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-03 16:48 +0100
                Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-12-03 15:59 +0000
                Re: DTC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-11-30 15:34 +0000
                Re: DTC Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-11-30 10:36 -0600
                Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-30 12:47 -0800
                Re: DTC Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-11-28 11:29 -0800
        Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-11-29 04:15 -0500
          Re: DTC "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-11-29 08:52 -1000
      Re: DTC Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-28 22:25 -0800
        Re: DTC "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-11-29 04:12 -0500
  Re: DTC humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-11-28 02:04 -0800
  Re: DTC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-11-28 14:21 +0000

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