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Groups > comp.lang.c > #106814 > unrolled thread

My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault

Started byacidlategamer@gmail.com
First post2017-03-23 09:56 -0700
Last post2017-03-23 19:02 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 213 — 32 participants

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  My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 09:56 -0700
    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 18:04 +0100
    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-23 17:07 +0000
      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 10:36 -0700
        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 10:42 -0700
          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 18:52 +0100
            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 12:54 -0600
              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 00:02 +0100
                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 17:16 -0600
                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 00:32 +0100
          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 11:57 -0600
            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 11:23 -0700
              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 12:53 -0600
                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-23 19:00 +0000
                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-23 15:59 -0400
                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-23 20:40 +0000
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-23 22:06 +0100
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-23 20:43 -0400
                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-24 14:09 +1300
                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-23 21:28 -0400
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-24 14:33 +1300
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 09:23 -0400
                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-25 08:39 +1300
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 20:40 -0400
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 19:48 -0600
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 13:32 -0700
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 20:42 -0400
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-17 06:30 -0700
                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 19:29 -0600
                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 10:10 +0000
                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 09:26 -0400
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 13:52 +0000
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 10:30 -0400
                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 14:37 +0000
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 12:51 -0400
                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 18:05 +0000
                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 15:09 -0400
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 12:55 -0400
                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-24 09:45 -0700
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 12:52 -0400
                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-24 10:10 -0700
                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 18:48 +0100
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 14:04 -0400
                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 19:16 +0100
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 15:10 -0400
                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 15:17 -0400
                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-25 00:49 +0100
                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 21:10 -0400
                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-25 02:37 +0100
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 21:45 -0400
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2017-03-25 15:58 +0100
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 12:44 -0700
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 12:07 -0700
                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-25 00:54 +0100
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 10:16 +0000
                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-25 12:32 +0000
                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-25 15:17 +0100
                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-25 16:32 +0000
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-25 10:15 -0700
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-25 14:07 -0400
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-25 18:23 +0000
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-25 18:48 +0000
                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 23:22 +0300
                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-25 20:47 +0000
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 15:56 +0300
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-26 18:13 +0000
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-26 17:03 +0200
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-25 21:16 +0000
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 21:28 +0000
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-25 19:16 -0400
                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-26 08:53 +0100
                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-26 02:39 -0700
                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-03-26 11:54 +0200
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 22:57 +1300
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 08:18 +0100
                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-26 11:37 +0000
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 08:19 +0100
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-27 21:53 +0000
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-27 16:22 -0700
                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 08:18 +0100
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-27 08:49 -0700
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 16:57 +0100
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 18:19 +0200
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 17:47 +0100
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 09:27 -0700
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 17:56 +0100
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-04-01 12:42 -0700
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-27 09:36 -0700
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 17:51 +0000
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-27 13:59 -0400
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 19:00 +0000
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-27 15:13 -0400
                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 20:05 +0000
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-27 13:14 -0700
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-27 21:28 +0000
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-27 16:21 -0700
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-28 13:44 +1300
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 08:39 +0100
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:36 +0000
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-03 14:02 -0400
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-14 11:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-14 18:39 +0100
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-14 14:38 -0400
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-22 21:06 +0000
                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-23 17:38 +0100
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2017-04-14 13:54 -0400
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-14 14:36 -0400
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-16 19:08 -0700
                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-26 17:11 +0200
                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 08:23 +0100
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 10:27 +0200
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 10:22 +0100
                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 15:01 +0000
                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 18:19 +0100
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 12:37 -0700
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-27 15:40 -0400
                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-27 21:28 +0100
                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 22:27 +0100
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-27 23:37 +0100
                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 08:33 +0100
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-28 11:21 -0400
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-28 15:38 +0000
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jm.bourguet@gmail.com - 2017-03-28 09:03 -0700
                                                                          Re: Readabilty of "3 == x" (was: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 09:20 -0700
                                                                            Re: Readabilty of "3 == x" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 18:55 +0100
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 18:49 +0100
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-28 14:53 -0400
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 15:19 -0500
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-02 12:49 +0000
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-03 17:19 +0100
                                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-03 21:44 +0200
                                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-04-03 15:05 -0700
                                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-04 01:19 +0200
                                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-04 00:49 +0100
                                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-04-03 18:22 -0700
                                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-04 06:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-29 00:16 +0100
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-29 00:26 +0100
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Alla <vitale.alla@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 12:34 +0300
                                                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 13:28 +0100
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-28 07:04 -0600
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 14:38 +0100
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-28 10:55 -0400
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault jadill33@gmail.com - 2017-03-28 07:27 -0700
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 07:58 -0700
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 16:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Alla <vitale.alla@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 18:49 +0300
                                                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 09:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 18:53 +0100
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-28 18:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 11:51 -0700
                                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 19:59 +0100
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Alla <vitale.alla@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 23:11 +0300
                                                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Alla <vitale.alla@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 17:20 +0300
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-01 08:58 -0700
                                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 18:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-01 11:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Alla <vitale.alla@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 22:43 +0300
                                                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 08:47 +0200
                                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-26 07:58 -0700
                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-25 19:35 +0000
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 21:37 +0000
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-26 08:39 +0100
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 21:21 +0000
                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 16:54 -0500
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 22:32 +0000
                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 13:46 -0700
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:39 +0000
                                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-03 11:42 -0700
                                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-03 12:10 -0700
                                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-03 15:22 -0700
                                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-05 11:01 +0000
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-26 08:45 +0100
                                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-26 02:35 -0700
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-26 17:19 +0200
                                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-27 08:15 +0100
                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 15:12 -0400
                                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-25 08:41 +1300
                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-24 16:27 -0600
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 21:36 -0400
                                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 20:44 -0400
                                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-25 14:46 +1300
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 11:24 -0700
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:52 +0000
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 13:55 +0000
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 10:31 -0400
                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 14:39 +0000
                                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 12:54 -0400
                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-03-23 21:56 +0000
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-23 15:18 -0700
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 16:39 -0600
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-23 20:42 -0400
                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 16:33 -0600
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-23 20:45 -0400
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 10:01 +0000
                        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 09:27 -0400
                          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 13:53 +0000
                            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 10:32 -0400
                              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 14:42 +0000
                                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-24 12:56 -0400
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 08:45 -0700
                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-03-23 21:14 +0000
        Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 11:52 -0600
          Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 11:03 -0700
            Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 11:14 -0700
              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-03-23 12:41 -0600
              Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-23 11:48 -0700
                Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 11:59 -0700
                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-23 12:35 -0700
                    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 12:48 -0700
                      Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-23 13:24 -0700
                  Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-23 20:46 +0000
    Re: My C program does not compile or gives segmentation fault Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2017-03-23 19:02 -0700

Page 4 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 11  Next page →


#107050

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-03-25 18:23 +0000
Message-ID<ob6ccm$c47$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107046
On 25/03/17 17:15, Keith Thompson wrote:

<snip>

> Of course `x == 3` and `3 == x` mean exactly the same thing in C.

Yes.

> But
> for me, and for a *lot* of people, `x == 3` is the natural way to write
> it, and `3 == x` is almost painfully awkward.  If you don't find it
> awkward, that's great, but a lot of us do.

And likewise, if you do find it awkward, that's unfortunate, but a lot 
of us don't.

> In English, the meaning of "Found someone you have I would say, hmm?" is
> perfectly clear, but we don't talk that way unless we're specifically
> imitating Yoda, because it's awkward.  I find `3 == x` equally awkward.

That's still a very English way of looking at it.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#107052

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-03-25 18:48 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsoddf0j.aa0.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#107046
On 2017-03-25, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
> Of course `x == 3` and `3 == x` mean exactly the same thing in C.  But
> for me, and for a *lot* of people, `x == 3` is the natural way to write
> it, and `3 == x` is almost painfully awkward.  If you don't find it
> awkward, that's great, but a lot of us do.
>
> In English, the meaning of "Found someone you have I would say, hmm?" is
> perfectly clear, but we don't talk that way unless we're specifically
> imitating Yoda, because it's awkward.  I find `3 == x` equally awkward.

I would say that a C expression resembles a mathematical expression
more than that it resembles English prose.

In mathematics, it is not unusual for a constant to appear on the
left side of an equality. See, for instance, Stephen Wolfram's web
page that lists several expansions for the constant 'pi',

  http://functions.wolfram.com/Constants/Pi/06/01/01

Here's an example from that page (paraphrased because some
mathematical symbols are hard to reproduce in plain text):

  pi  =  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))

Is this really more awkward than

  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi

?
~

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#107067

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-25 23:22 +0300
Message-ID<20170325232258.f65fa0ba9c634de524686bb5@gmail.com>
In reply to#107052
Ike Naar:

> In  mathematics,  it is not unusual for a constant
> to appear on the left side of an  equality.   See,
> for  instance,  Stephen  Wolfram's  web  page that
> lists several expansions for the constant 'pi',
>
>    http://functions.wolfram.com/Constants/Pi/06/01/01
>
> Here's an example from that page (paraphrased  be-
> cause some mathematical symbols are hard to repro-
> duce in plain text):
>
>    pi  =  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))
>
> Is this really more awkward than
>
>    4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi
>
> ?

The natural arrangement has nothing to do with which
side is a constant and which is not, but rather with
which expression is the  definition  and  which  the
thing defined.

The  first equality answers the question "How may Pi
be defined?" whereas the second "What is the sum  of
this infinite series?"

Likewise,  in  C,  "x  ==  3" is a question about x,
whether it equals three, or a statment about x, that
it equals three.  Expressing it as "3 == x" would be
ridiculous because it would seem a question or stat-
ment about the number three, whereas it is the vari-
able x that is the actual subject of our query.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

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#107071

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-03-25 20:47 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsoddlvh.aa0.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#107067
On 2017-03-25, Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ike Naar:
>
>> In  mathematics,  it is not unusual for a constant
>> to appear on the left side of an  equality.   See,
>> for  instance,  Stephen  Wolfram's  web  page that
>> lists several expansions for the constant 'pi',
>>
>>    http://functions.wolfram.com/Constants/Pi/06/01/01
>>
>> Here's an example from that page (paraphrased  be-
>> cause some mathematical symbols are hard to repro-
>> duce in plain text):
>>
>>    pi  =  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))
>>
>> Is this really more awkward than
>>
>>    4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi
>>
>> ?
>
> The natural arrangement has nothing to do with which
> side is a constant and which is not, but rather with
> which expression is the  definition  and  which  the
> thing defined.
>
> The  first equality answers the question "How may Pi
> be defined?" whereas the second "What is the sum  of
> this infinite series?"
>
> Likewise,  in  C,  "x  ==  3" is a question about x,
> whether it equals three, or a statment about x, that
> it equals three.  Expressing it as "3 == x" would be
> ridiculous because it would seem a question or stat-
> ment about the number three, whereas it is the vari-
> able x that is the actual subject of our query.

An equality is not a definition. If it were, Stephen Wolfram's page
would be listing 32 definitions of pi. Wouldn't that be strange?
I would rather regard those equations as properties of pi, not as
definitions.

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#107104

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-26 15:56 +0300
Message-ID<20170326155649.fd30bc8d9d0c43f626c00a09@gmail.com>
In reply to#107071
Ike Naar to Anton Shepelev:

> > Ike Naar:
> >
> > > In  mathematics,  it is not unusual for a con-
> > > stant to appear on the left side of an equali-
> > > ty.   See, for instance, Stephen Wolfram's web
> > > page that lists  several  expansions  for  the
> > > constant 'pi',
> > >
> > >    http://functions.wolfram.com/Constants/Pi/06/01/01
> > >
> > > Here's  an example from that page (paraphrased
> > > because some mathematical symbols are hard  to
> > > reproduce in plain text):
> > >
> > >    pi  =  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))
> > >
> > > Is this really more awkward than
> > >
> > >    4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi
> > >
> > > ?
> >
> > The  natural  arrangement has nothing to do with
> > which side is a constant and which is  not,  but
> > rather  with  which expression is the definition
> > and which the thing defined.
> >
> > The first equality answers the question "How may
> > Pi  be defined?" whereas the second "What is the
> > sum of this infinite series?"
> >
> > Likewise, in C, "x == 3" is a question about  x,
> > whether  it equals three, or a statment about x,
> > that it equals three.  Expressing it as "3 == x"
> > would  be  ridiculous  because  it  would seem a
> > question or statment  about  the  number  three,
> > whereas  it is the variable x that is the actual
> > subject of our query.
>
> An equality is  not  a  definition.  If  it  were,
> Stephen Wolfram's page would be listing 32 defini-
> tions of pi. Wouldn't that be strange?

No, multiple  definitions  of  the  same  thing  are
ususal in calculus.

> I  would  rather regard those equations as proper-
> ties of pi, not as definitions.

They are properties, yes, but that is a weak  state-
ment, for they are more than them -- defintions, be-
cause each equality defines the value of Pi.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

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#107114

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-03-26 18:13 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsodg1br.qe1.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#107104
On 2017-03-26, Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ike Naar to Anton Shepelev:
>
>> > Ike Naar:
>> >
>> > > In  mathematics,  it is not unusual for a con-
>> > > stant to appear on the left side of an equali-
>> > > ty.   See, for instance, Stephen Wolfram's web
>> > > page that lists  several  expansions  for  the
>> > > constant 'pi',
>> > >
>> > >    http://functions.wolfram.com/Constants/Pi/06/01/01
>> > >
>> > > Here's  an example from that page (paraphrased
>> > > because some mathematical symbols are hard  to
>> > > reproduce in plain text):
>> > >
>> > >    pi  =  4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))
>> > >
>> > > Is this really more awkward than
>> > >
>> > >    4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi
>> > >
>> > > ?
>> >
>> > The  natural  arrangement has nothing to do with
>> > which side is a constant and which is  not,  but
>> > rather  with  which expression is the definition
>> > and which the thing defined.
>> >
>> > The first equality answers the question "How may
>> > Pi  be defined?" whereas the second "What is the
>> > sum of this infinite series?"
>> >
>> > Likewise, in C, "x == 3" is a question about  x,
>> > whether  it equals three, or a statment about x,
>> > that it equals three.  Expressing it as "3 == x"
>> > would  be  ridiculous  because  it  would seem a
>> > question or statment  about  the  number  three,
>> > whereas  it is the variable x that is the actual
>> > subject of our query.

"3 == x" is
1) a question about 3 (is it equal to x?),
2) a question about x (is it equal to 3?),
3) a question about 3 and x (are they equal?).
I would choose option 3 because it is the only option that
respects the symmetry of the == operator.

>> An equality is  not  a  definition.  If  it  were,
>> Stephen Wolfram's page would be listing 32 defini-
>> tions of pi. Wouldn't that be strange?
>
> No, multiple  definitions  of  the  same  thing  are
> ususal in calculus.
>
>> I  would  rather regard those equations as proper-
>> ties of pi, not as definitions.
>
> They are properties, yes, but that is a weak  state-
> ment, for they are more than them -- defintions, be-
> cause each equality defines the value of Pi.

Why does

    4 * (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  pi

define the value of pi, and not, say, the value of 4 or the value
of -1 or any other constant appearing in the formula?

If it were rewritten as

    pi / (Sum k : k >= 0 : (-1)^k / (2*k+1))  =  4

would it still define the value of pi ?

I think that an equality does not define anything, it only asks
whether its left and right operand have equal values (or, alternatively,
states that its left and right operand have equal values).

If equalities are definitions, what would be defined by

    (a+b) * (a-b)  ==  (a*a) - (b*b)

?

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#107105

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-03-26 17:03 +0200
Message-ID<ob8l3h$aq6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107046
On 25/03/17 18:15, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>> On 25/03/17 14:17, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 25/03/17 13:32, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 25/03/17 10:16, Richard Bos wrote:
>>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But there are plenty of other tools available for static error
>>>>>> checking.
>>>>>>   There is /no/ excuse for writing Yoda-style conditionals such as "if
>>>>>> (3 == x)
>>>>
>>>> (David: how is that "Yoda style"? The applicable grammar here is C, not
>>>> English. Do you think comparison imposes a grammatical ordering on
>>>> comparands?)
>>>
>>> "Yoda style" means writing things in an odd order for some imagined
>>> safety or efficiency benefit.  It is normal (for English speakers,
>>> anyway) to say "if x is 3 then ...".  Thus the clearest and most natural
>>> C equivalent is "if (x == 3) ...".
>>>
>>> If like Yoda you want to talk, and to say "if 3 is x ..." you prefer,
>>> then "if (3 == x)" you write.
>>
>> You are still confusing English and C.
>>
>> x == y doesn't mean "x is y". Nor does it mean "y is x". It means that
>> its two operands evaluate to the same value.
>
> `x == y` means "x is equal to y" (I think that's a good English
> rendition of the C semantics).

That is a more precise rendition than "x is y" - and the same "natural 
ordering" applies.  You also see it in mathematics - you write (and say) 
"x² - 5x + 6 = 0", not "0 = x² - 5x + 6".

>
>>> Writing "if (3 == x)" has a benefit /only/ if you have poor tools (or
>>> don't know how to use them correctly) which are unable to warn you if
>>> you write "if (x = 3)".
>>
>> Writing if(3 == x) does indeed have at least that benefit. Writing if(x
>> == 3) has no commensurate benefit.
>
> Of course `x == 3` and `3 == x` mean exactly the same thing in C.  But
> for me, and for a *lot* of people, `x == 3` is the natural way to write
> it, and `3 == x` is almost painfully awkward.  If you don't find it
> awkward, that's great, but a lot of us do.
>
> In English, the meaning of "Found someone you have I would say, hmm?" is
> perfectly clear, but we don't talk that way unless we're specifically
> imitating Yoda, because it's awkward.  I find `3 == x` equally awkward.
>

On the head the nail you have hit!

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#107073

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2017-03-25 21:16 +0000
Message-ID<87poh56or1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#107044
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

> On 25/03/17 14:17, David Brown wrote:
>> On 25/03/17 13:32, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 25/03/17 10:16, Richard Bos wrote:
>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But there are plenty of other tools available for static error
>>>>> checking.
>>>>>   There is /no/ excuse for writing Yoda-style conditionals such as "if
>>>>> (3 == x)
>>>
>>> (David: how is that "Yoda style"? The applicable grammar here is C, not
>>> English. Do you think comparison imposes a grammatical ordering on
>>> comparands?)
>>
>> "Yoda style" means writing things in an odd order for some imagined
>> safety or efficiency benefit.  It is normal (for English speakers,
>> anyway) to say "if x is 3 then ...".  Thus the clearest and most natural
>> C equivalent is "if (x == 3) ...".
>>
>> If like Yoda you want to talk, and to say "if 3 is x ..." you prefer,
>> then "if (3 == x)" you write.
>
> You are still confusing English and C.

The language encourages you to.  It was keywords like return, while, if
and else and the grammar is designed to seem reasonable to an English
speaker.  The return statement could have been

  42 <-

or even

  42 return you do;

but DMR decided on

  return 42;

> x == y doesn't mean "x is y". Nor does it mean "y is x". It means that
> its two operands evaluate to the same value.

Of course, and "return 42;" in C does not mean "return 42" in English
but C's return statement is intended to be similar in form to some uses
of return in English.  Many people like to extend that similarity to the
ordering of conditional expressions.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#107075

Fromraltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
Date2017-03-25 21:28 +0000
Message-ID<58d6e0b3.20124312@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#107044
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 25/03/17 14:17, David Brown wrote:

> > Writing "if (3 == x)" has a benefit /only/ if you have poor tools (or
> > don't know how to use them correctly) which are unable to warn you if
> > you write "if (x = 3)".
> 
> Writing if(3 == x) does indeed have at least that benefit. Writing if(x 
> == 3) has no commensurate benefit.

Indeed; it has, instead, the incummensurately greater benefit of being
easy to read by people who are not robots or little green men.

Richard

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#107086

From"James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2017-03-25 19:16 -0400
Message-ID<ddedeba8-497e-7cbe-2a10-d2224902f8dc@verizon.net>
In reply to#107075
On 03/25/2017 05:28 PM, Richard Bos wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
...
>> Writing if(3 == x) does indeed have at least that benefit. Writing if(x
>> == 3) has no commensurate benefit.
>
> Indeed; it has, instead, the incummensurately greater benefit of being
> easy to read by people who are not robots or little green men.

Wait a minute - how did you know ... has my artificial skin worn off 
again? :-)

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#107093

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-03-26 08:53 +0100
Message-ID<ob7rsv$28i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107075
On 25/03/17 21:28, Richard Bos wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 25/03/17 14:17, David Brown wrote:
>
>>> Writing "if (3 == x)" has a benefit /only/ if you have poor tools (or
>>> don't know how to use them correctly) which are unable to warn you if
>>> you write "if (x = 3)".
>>
>> Writing if(3 == x) does indeed have at least that benefit. Writing if(x
>> == 3) has no commensurate benefit.
>
> Indeed; it has, instead, the incummensurately greater benefit of being
> easy to read by people who are not robots or little green men.

I value readability very highly, but I do assume that the reader has a 
basic familiarity with the language.

And obviously you do. And so do the others who have expressed an opinion 
on this matter in this thread.

Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative 
(and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright 
enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and 
thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).

Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be 
looking at other careers.

Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough 
to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are 
so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B == x?

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#107096

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2017-03-26 02:39 -0700
Message-ID<lnwpbc74y3.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#107093
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
[...]
> Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative 
> (and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright 
> enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and 
> thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).
>
> Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be 
> looking at other careers.
>
> Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough 
> to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are 
> so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B == x?

I see that you don't understand.

Repeating that addition and equality are commutative is not helpful.
We all know that.

I assure you that (a) I understand perfectly well that `x == 3` and
`3 == x` are equivalent, and (b) I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
Can we start by acknowledging that I'm not just making that up,
and that a lot of people share the same feeling?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#107097

FromSjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll>
Date2017-03-26 11:54 +0200
Message-ID<58d78fe0$0$4136$e4fe514c@textnews.kpn.nl>
In reply to#107096
On 26.03.17 11:39, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> [...]
>> Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative
>> (and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright
>> enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and
>> thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).
>>
>> Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be
>> looking at other careers.
>>
>> Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough
>> to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are
>> so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B == x?
>
> I see that you don't understand.
>
> Repeating that addition and equality are commutative is not helpful.
> We all know that.
>
> I assure you that (a) I understand perfectly well that `x == 3` and
> `3 == x` are equivalent, and (b) I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
> Can we start by acknowledging that I'm not just making that up,
> and that a lot of people share the same feeling?
>
++++++1

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#107098

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-03-26 22:57 +1300
Message-ID<ejphjlFrv02U7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#107097
On 03/26/17 10:54 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
> On 26.03.17 11:39, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>> Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative
>>> (and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright
>>> enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and
>>> thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).
>>>
>>> Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be
>>> looking at other careers.
>>>
>>> Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough
>>> to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are
>>> so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B == x?
>>
>> I see that you don't understand.
>>
>> Repeating that addition and equality are commutative is not helpful.
>> We all know that.
>>
>> I assure you that (a) I understand perfectly well that `x == 3` and
>> `3 == x` are equivalent, and (b) I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
>> Can we start by acknowledging that I'm not just making that up,
>> and that a lot of people share the same feeling?
>>
> ++++++1
>
...and some more!

-- 
Ian

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#107139

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-03-27 08:18 +0100
Message-ID<obae79$52e$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107097
On 26/03/17 10:54, Sjouke Burry wrote:
> On 26.03.17 11:39, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>> Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative
>>> (and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright
>>> enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and
>>> thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).
>>>
>>> Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be
>>> looking at other careers.
>>>
>>> Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough
>>> to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are
>>> so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B
>>> == x?
>>
>> I see that you don't understand.
>>
>> Repeating that addition and equality are commutative is not helpful.
>> We all know that.
>>
>> I assure you that (a) I understand perfectly well that `x == 3` and
>> `3 == x` are equivalent, and (b) I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
>> Can we start by acknowledging that I'm not just making that up,
>> and that a lot of people share the same feeling?
>>
> ++++++1

That's never gonna compile.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#107102

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-03-26 11:37 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsodfa4n.ei4.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#107096
On 2017-03-26, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
> I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.

Yes, it stutters ("three equals equals x").

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#107140

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-03-27 08:19 +0100
Message-ID<obae8a$52e$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107102
On 26/03/17 12:37, Ike Naar wrote:
> On 2017-03-26, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>> I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
>
> Yes, it stutters ("three equals equals x").

And "x equals equals three" doesn't?

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#107222

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-03-27 21:53 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsodj2jj.qfh.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#107140
On 2017-03-27, Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 26/03/17 12:37, Ike Naar wrote:
>> On 2017-03-26, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>>> I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
>>
>> Yes, it stutters ("three equals equals x").
>
> And "x equals equals three" doesn't?

It does. And that is why I don't find the "ugly and jarring"
arguments very convincing. C is full of constructs that are ugly
and jarring, but that does not mean that C is not useful. The
assignment operator is ugly and jarring. The stuttering "==" syntax
of the equality operator is ugly and jarring. Octal constants are
ugly and jarring. Integer promotion rules are ugly and jarring.
Declaration-follows-use is ugly and jarrig. And so on. Despite all
that, useful software can be written in C because programmers have
learned to live with those ugly and jarring constructs.

I really don't understand why one of the things that isn't ugly
and jarring (the symmetry of the == operator) is found ugly and
jarring in some people's eyes.

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#107230

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2017-03-27 16:22 -0700
Message-ID<ln37dy71az.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#107222
Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> writes:
> On 2017-03-27, Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/03/17 12:37, Ike Naar wrote:
>>> On 2017-03-26, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>>>> I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.
>>>
>>> Yes, it stutters ("three equals equals x").
>>
>> And "x equals equals three" doesn't?
>
> It does. And that is why I don't find the "ugly and jarring"
> arguments very convincing. C is full of constructs that are ugly
> and jarring, but that does not mean that C is not useful. The
> assignment operator is ugly and jarring. The stuttering "==" syntax
> of the equality operator is ugly and jarring. Octal constants are
> ugly and jarring. Integer promotion rules are ugly and jarring.
> Declaration-follows-use is ugly and jarrig. And so on. Despite all
> that, useful software can be written in C because programmers have
> learned to live with those ugly and jarring constructs.
>
> I really don't understand why one of the things that isn't ugly
> and jarring (the symmetry of the == operator) is found ugly and
> jarring in some people's eyes.

Correct, you don't.  I'm not entirely sure I understand it either.
I've tried to explain it as well as I can, but I may have failed.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#107138

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-03-27 08:18 +0100
Message-ID<obae5n$52e$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107096
On 26/03/17 10:39, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> [...]
>> Anyone who is bright enough to understand that addition is commutative
>> (and thus that x + y gives the same result as y + x) is also bright
>> enough to understand that comparison for equality is commutative (and
>> thus that x == y gives the same results as y == x).
>>
>> Anyone who is not bright enough to understand commutativity needs to be
>> looking at other careers.
>>
>> Everybody in this thread who has expressed an opinion /is/ bright enough
>> to understand commutativity, so I really, truly don't see why they are
>> so upset by 3 == x. Do these same people find it difficult to read B == x?
>
> I see that you don't understand.

I think I'm beginning to.

> Repeating that addition and equality are commutative is not helpful.
> We all know that.

I know you all know that. Because I know you all know that, I'm really 
struggling to see why you have an issue here.

> I assure you that (a) I understand perfectly well that `x == 3` and
> `3 == x` are equivalent, and (b) I find `3 == x` ugly and jarring.

I accept your assurance. I find it strange, but I accept it.

> Can we start by acknowledging that I'm not just making that up,
> and that a lot of people share the same feeling?

Yes, but let's be clear that it's a /feeling/. It doesn't seem to have 
any logical grounds whatsoever.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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