Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.c > #68365 > unrolled thread

Quick Question

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c

Contents

  Quick Question dougmmika@gmail.com - 2015-08-25 19:22 -0700
    Re: Quick Question "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 19:24 -0700
    Re: Quick Question James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-25 23:00 -0400
      Re: Quick Question Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-26 07:19 +0100
        Re: Quick Question glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-26 07:55 +0000
          Re: Quick Question "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-08-26 06:04 -0500
            Re: Quick Question Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-26 12:58 +0100
              Re: Quick Question "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 05:20 -0700
            Re: Quick Question Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-26 13:17 +0100
              Re: Quick Question "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-08-26 08:15 -0500
            Re: Quick Question Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-26 08:36 -0700
        Re: Quick Question David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-26 13:09 +0200
          Re: Quick Question Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-26 13:01 +0100
            Re: Quick Question David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-26 14:30 +0200
            Re: Quick Question Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2015-08-26 09:14 -0400
              Re: Quick Question Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2015-08-26 13:40 -0400
            Re: Quick Question James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-26 10:23 -0400
            Re: Quick Question Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-26 08:39 -0700
              Re: Quick Question Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2015-08-26 13:43 -0400
              Re: Quick Question Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-27 09:26 -0700
            Re: Quick Question Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2015-08-26 13:39 -0400
              Re: Quick Question Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-26 18:46 +0100
              Re: Quick Question James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-26 14:08 -0400
              Re: Quick Question Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-26 22:41 -0700
                Re: Quick Question Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-08-27 08:40 -0600
                  Re: Quick Question Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2015-08-27 13:49 -0700
                  Re: Quick Question Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-27 14:28 -0700
          Re: Quick Question James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-26 10:24 -0400

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#68365 — Quick Question

Hi to all, 

I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?

Thanks

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#68366

On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 10:22:48 PM UTC-4, doug...@gmail.com wrote:
> I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?

The group comp.lang.c covers C, and does not cover C# or C++.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68367

On 08/25/2015 10:22 PM, dougmmika@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi to all, 
> 
> I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?

It's for C, not C#. I'm curious - what led you to guess otherwise?
-- 
James Kuyper

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68370

On 26/08/2015 04:00, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 08/25/2015 10:22 PM, dougmmika@gmail.com wrote:
>>  Hi to all,
>>
>>  I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?
>
> It's for C, not C#. I'm curious - what led you to guess otherwise?

It's the name, comp.lang.c - it's *so* confusing. It is not surprising 
that people think this is a group for C++, or C#, or RDC, or Win32, or 
Posix, or proselytism, or SQL. There is nothing in the name to suggest 
that this group is about the COMPuter programming LANGuage called C. 
Perhaps we should change it to something more descriptive, such as, say, 
comp.lang.c - do you think then maybe people might get the hint?

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68375

Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

(snip)

> Perhaps we should change it to something more descriptive, such as, say, 
> comp.lang.c - do you think then maybe people might get the hint?


comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c

Is # legal in a newsgroup name?

If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.

-- glen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68384

"glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:

> comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
>
> Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
>
> If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
> comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.

Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a name 
containing '/' is going to lead to problems.  When making notes in file 
names and suchlike my choice for "punctuation belongs here" is '%'.  As near 
as I know it is bulletproof. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68392

On 26/08/2015 12:04, Osmium wrote:
> "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
>
>>  comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
>>
>>  Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
>>
>>  If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
>>  comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.
>
> Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a name
> containing '/' is going to lead to problems.

Why? Usenet isn't the Web. It's Web addresses that start http:// (among 
other things); news articles start news:

<news:nov-faq-1-930909720@agate.Berkeley.EDU>

Note the complete absence of /.

Compare to:

<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3977> which /is/ a Web address.

<snip>

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68397

On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 7:59:05 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 26/08/2015 12:04, Osmium wrote:
> > "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
> >
> >>  comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
> >>
> >>  Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
> >>
> >>  If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
> >>  comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.
> >
> > Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a name
> > containing '/' is going to lead to problems.
> 
> Why? Usenet isn't the Web. It's Web addresses that start http:// (among 
> other things); news articles start news:
> 
> <news:nov-faq-1-930909720@agate.Berkeley.EDU>
> 
> Note the complete absence of /.
> 
> Compare to:
> 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3977> which /is/ a Web address.
> 
> <snip>

For those of us who don't use Usenet readers, try:

     https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.c/AT0lTO4MeHI

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68395

"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:

> "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
>
>> comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
>>
>> Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
>>
>> If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
>> comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.
>
> Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a
> name containing '/' is going to lead to problems.

You mean URLs I think.  But why should / be a problem?  They occur in
URLs all the time.  And if they were a problem (for some reason), URLs
have an "escape" mechanism to permit pretty much any character to be
represented.

What's more, the naming of groups pre-dates the URL notation, so
comp.lang.pl/1 would not have been excluded on that basis.  In fact it
is not excluded.  The prohibited characters are control codes, and those
in the C string " !()*,?@[\\]" though I think that was formalised rather
late.

> in file names and suchlike my choice for "punctuation belongs here" is
> '%'.  As near as I know it is bulletproof.

Well % is not bulletproof in URLs.  In fact it introduces the escape
sequence I referred to.

-- 
Ben.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68410

"Ben Bacarisse" wrrote:

> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
>>
>>> comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
>>>
>>> Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
>>>
>>> If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
>>> comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.
>>
>> Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a
>> name containing '/' is going to lead to problems.
>
> You mean URLs I think.  But why should / be a problem?  They occur in
> URLs all the time.  And if they were a problem (for some reason), URLs
> have an "escape" mechanism to permit pretty much any character to be
> represented.
>
> What's more, the naming of groups pre-dates the URL notation, so
> comp.lang.pl/1 would not have been excluded on that basis.  In fact it
> is not excluded.  The prohibited characters are control codes, and those
> in the C string " !()*,?@[\\]" though I think that was formalised rather
> late.
>
>> in file names and suchlike my choice for "punctuation belongs here" is
>> '%'.  As near as I know it is bulletproof.
>
> Well % is not bulletproof in URLs.  In fact it introduces the escape
> sequence I referred to.

I should know better than to try to be brief on this group.

My point was that '/' is often used in the "biz", in general to have a 
special meaning and is best avoided.  I try to take notes when there is an 
occasional useful nugget, part of the process is to change the subject of 
the message to something meaningful to *me*.  The (renamed) subject becomes 
a file name, and that character is a bad choice on my machine. I would say 
the '/' is used in many meta-languages except that would trigger a flurry of 
messages about what a meta language is.

I will note that my news server, one of the better ones, lists exactly zero 
groups for names containing either '/' or '\'.

I didn't know there was an escape mechanism for URLs, thanks for that.  I 
doubt, however, that people who actually chose URLs have a URL maven at 
their elbow.

I have zero interest in saying anything further on this subject or any 
vaguely related similar subject. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68426

"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
> "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
>> comp.lang.c-the-whole-c-and-nothing-but-c
>>
>> Is # legal in a newsgroup name?
>>
>> If I remember right, the PL/I group is named comp.lang.pl1 because
>> comp.lang.pl/i isn't allowed.
>
> Since addresses start out with http://  it is pretty obvious that a name 
> containing '/' is going to lead to problems.  When making notes in file 
> names and suchlike my choice for "punctuation belongs here" is '%'.  As near 
> as I know it is bulletproof. 

In the days before NNTP, news articles were stored locally under a
directory typically called /usr/spool/news (news servers might still
do this, but end users generally don't have direct access to the
server system).  Newsgroup names would be split on the '.' character.
Article #12345 of comp.lang.c would be stored in the file
    /usr/spool/news/comp/lang/c/12345

This scheme would not distinguish between comp.lang.pl/i and
comp.lang.pl.i, which would logically be under the comp.lang.pl
hierarchy.  I have no idea whether a name like "comp.lang.pl/i" would
have been treated as "comp.lang.pl.i", or would have caused an error.

On Unix-like systems, the only characters not permitted in file names
(including directory and device names) are '/' (the directory delimiter)
and '\0'.  Which means you can cause serious confusion by creating a
file with a '\n' in its name.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68386

On 26/08/15 08:19, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 26/08/2015 04:00, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 08/25/2015 10:22 PM, dougmmika@gmail.com wrote:
>>>  Hi to all,
>>>
>>>  I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?
>>
>> It's for C, not C#. I'm curious - what led you to guess otherwise?
> 
> It's the name, comp.lang.c - it's *so* confusing. It is not surprising
> that people think this is a group for C++, or C#, or RDC, or Win32, or
> Posix, or proselytism, or SQL. There is nothing in the name to suggest
> that this group is about the COMPuter programming LANGuage called C.
> Perhaps we should change it to something more descriptive, such as, say,
> comp.lang.c - do you think then maybe people might get the hint?
> 

For people relatively new to programming, it can be confusing that there
are so many "C related" languages like C#, C++, and Objective-C.  Then
there are many managers and "human resources" folk who believe in the
language "C/C++" - and perhaps other combinations including C#.  And for
many search engines, it's only the letters that are relevant - they
can't distinguish between C, C# and C++.

So blame Microsoft here - it was they who invented their own
not-quite-java language and confusingly called it C#.  Don't blame the
guy who politely asked a not entirely unreasonable question.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68393

On 26/08/2015 12:09, David Brown wrote:
> On 26/08/15 08:19, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>  On 26/08/2015 04:00, James Kuyper wrote:
>>>  On 08/25/2015 10:22 PM, dougmmika@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>   Hi to all,
>>>>
>>>>   I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?
>>>
>>>  It's for C, not C#. I'm curious - what led you to guess otherwise?
>>
>>  It's the name, comp.lang.c - it's *so* confusing. It is not surprising
>>  that people think this is a group for C++, or C#, or RDC, or Win32, or
>>  Posix, or proselytism, or SQL. There is nothing in the name to suggest
>>  that this group is about the COMPuter programming LANGuage called C.
>>  Perhaps we should change it to something more descriptive, such as, say,
>>  comp.lang.c - do you think then maybe people might get the hint?
>>
>
> For people relatively new to programming, it can be confusing that there
> are so many "C related" languages like C#, C++, and Objective-C.  Then
> there are many managers and "human resources" folk who believe in the
> language "C/C++" - and perhaps other combinations including C#.  And for
> many search engines, it's only the letters that are relevant - they
> can't distinguish between C, C# and C++.
>
> So blame Microsoft here - it was they who invented their own
> not-quite-java language and confusingly called it C#.  Don't blame the
> guy who politely asked a not entirely unreasonable question.

Oh, I wasn't blaming him. My response was not to him, but to James. And 
yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's 
fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or 
"dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all 
terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68398

On 26/08/15 14:01, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 26/08/2015 12:09, David Brown wrote:
>> On 26/08/15 08:19, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>  On 26/08/2015 04:00, James Kuyper wrote:
>>>>  On 08/25/2015 10:22 PM, dougmmika@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>   Hi to all,
>>>>>
>>>>>   I hate to ask this, but this group covers C# not C, correct?
>>>>
>>>>  It's for C, not C#. I'm curious - what led you to guess otherwise?
>>>
>>>  It's the name, comp.lang.c - it's *so* confusing. It is not surprising
>>>  that people think this is a group for C++, or C#, or RDC, or Win32, or
>>>  Posix, or proselytism, or SQL. There is nothing in the name to suggest
>>>  that this group is about the COMPuter programming LANGuage called C.
>>>  Perhaps we should change it to something more descriptive, such as,
>>> say,
>>>  comp.lang.c - do you think then maybe people might get the hint?
>>>
>>
>> For people relatively new to programming, it can be confusing that there
>> are so many "C related" languages like C#, C++, and Objective-C.  Then
>> there are many managers and "human resources" folk who believe in the
>> language "C/C++" - and perhaps other combinations including C#.  And for
>> many search engines, it's only the letters that are relevant - they
>> can't distinguish between C, C# and C++.
>>
>> So blame Microsoft here - it was they who invented their own
>> not-quite-java language and confusingly called it C#.  Don't blame the
>> guy who politely asked a not entirely unreasonable question.
> 
> Oh, I wasn't blaming him. My response was not to him, but to James. And
> yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's
> fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or
> "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all
> terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".
> 

And I suppose we can blame that on the DECwriter keyboards :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68409

Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

>        And yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly
> Dennis Ritchie's fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called
> it "dritchie" or "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far
> better. Those are all terrible names for programming languages, but
> they're all better than "C".

That is IT. From now on, I will program in flodge.

-- 
Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer
	 http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68438

On 8/26/2015 9:14 AM, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>
>>         And yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly
>> Dennis Ritchie's fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called
>> it "dritchie" or "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far
>> better. Those are all terrible names for programming languages, but
>> they're all better than "C".
>
> That is IT. From now on, I will program in flodge.

... which is very similar to C, but allows "void main(void)".

-- 
Kenneth Brody

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68419

On 08/26/2015 08:01 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
...
> yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's 
> fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or 
> "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all 
> terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".

My first programming language was Fortran I (sic), and I had to use my
error-prone fingers to keypunch the cards my programs were written on,
so I tried to write my programs so they involved as little typing as
possible. [I'm not quite as old as that makes me sound - an alumnus
donated a long-obsolete IBM 1620 to my high school, so I was learning
programming in the late 1970's, not the 1960's]. Therefore, I got into
the habit of using i, j, k, etc for loop counters. It took me decades to
realize that I was making things difficult for myself, because
single-character names are hard to search for. I now have a strict rule
of never defining an identifier with fewer than 3 characters. It's much
easier to confirm the validity of the following code than equivalent
code using i and j:

// ECI: Earth Centered Inertial coordinates
// ECR: Earth Centered Rotating coordinates.
	for(int eci=0; eci<3; eci++)
        {
	     pos_eci[eci] = 0;
	     for(int ecr=0; ecr<3; ecr++)
                 pos_eci[eci] += ecr2eci[eci][ecr] * pos_ecr[ecr];
	}

Note: we use a naming convention for rotation matrices such that, when
using loop counters named this way, a2b[b][a] is always the only correct
way to index a2b. Before I introduced this convention, incorrectly
indexed rotation matrices were very common in the body of code I was
working on - we had no real data to test with at that time, and the
simulated data we were using could easily have been created by code
containing the same mistake, rendering it indetectible.
-- 
James Kuyper

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68428

Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
[...]
> Oh, I wasn't blaming him. My response was not to him, but to James. And 
> yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's 
> fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or 
> "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all 
> terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".

I'm tempted to invent a language, intermediate between BCPL and B, and
call it A.  (And yes, there is a language, intended to be a successor to
C, called D.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68439

On 8/26/2015 11:39 AM, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> [...]
>> Oh, I wasn't blaming him. My response was not to him, but to James. And
>> yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's
>> fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or
>> "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all
>> terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".
>
> I'm tempted to invent a language, intermediate between BCPL and B, and
> call it A.  (And yes, there is a language, intended to be a successor to
> C, called D.)

It didn't catch on because the successor is supposed to be called "P".

-- 
Kenneth Brody

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68495

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> [...]
>> Oh, I wasn't blaming him. My response was not to him, but to James. And 
>> yes, of course it's Microsoft's fault. But it's partly Dennis Ritchie's 
>> fault. "C" is the worst thing about C. If he'd called it "dritchie" or 
>> "dmrlang" or "flodge", that would have been far better. Those are all 
>> terrible names for programming languages, but they're all better than "C".
>
> I'm tempted to invent a language, intermediate between BCPL and B, and
> call it A.  (And yes, there is a language, intended to be a successor to
> C, called D.)

Here's another really bad idea: B++, an object-oriented language built
on top of B.  All the complexity of C++, none of the type-safety of C.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.c

csiph-web