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Groups > comp.lang.c > #97546 > unrolled thread

absence of max

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2016-11-26 12:49 -0800
Last post2016-12-01 12:33 +0800
Articles 20 on this page of 567 — 30 participants

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Contents

  absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 12:49 -0800
    absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 15:34 -0800
      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 00:21 +0000
        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 04:25 -0800
          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-11-27 13:54 +0100
            Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 13:54 +0000
              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 07:33 -0800
          Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-11-27 14:06 +0100
          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 17:47 +0100
            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:13 -0800
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 15:35 +0000
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:48 -0800
                  Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:53 -0800
                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 00:14 +0000
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:36 +0000
                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:03 +0000
                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:23 -0800
                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 21:05 -0800
              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 16:53 +0100
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 08:07 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:37 +0100
                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 08:26 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:42 +0100
              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 08:16 -0800
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 09:31 -0800
                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 10:38 -0800
                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 10:59 -0800
                      Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 12:09 -0800
                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 12:46 -0800
                          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 13:05 -0800
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 13:50 -0800
                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:52 +0100
                                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 05:44 -0800
                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 15:12 +0100
                                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 06:54 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 10:37 +0100
                                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 03:07 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 13:28 +0100
                                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 05:12 -0800
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 18:57 +0000
                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 11:33 -0800
                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-28 20:09 +0000
                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:55 +0100
                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:06 +0000
                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 11:18 +0100
                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:28 +0000
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 10:49 +0000
                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:51 +0000
                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 11:40 +0000
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 12:17 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 15:18 +0000
                              Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 18:30 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 18:49 +0000
                                  Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-29 14:09 -0500
                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 10:56 -0800
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 11:29 -0800
                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 20:27 +0000
                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 20:31 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 10:45 +0100
                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 12:54 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-29 16:21 -0500
                                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 21:47 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 21:30 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 14:12 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 22:27 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 22:33 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-29 14:52 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 15:43 -0800
                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 23:51 +0000
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 00:51 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 02:08 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 18:10 -0800
                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 12:29 -0800
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 21:30 +0000
                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 13:47 -0800
                          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 14:59 -0800
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 15:13 -0800
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:12 +0000
                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 01:11 +0000
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 18:01 -0800
                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:19 +0000
                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 13:26 -0800
                                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 17:09 -0800
                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 00:01 +0000
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:29 +0000
                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 17:02 -0800
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 01:21 +0000
                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 17:53 -0800
                            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:11 -0800
                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:12 +0000
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 11:17 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 09:46 -0500
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 15:45 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 17:04 -0500
                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 07:21 -0800
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 15:50 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 00:19 +0000
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 00:43 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 01:51 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 22:26 -0500
                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 11:25 +0000
                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 09:07 -0500
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 14:22 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-30 09:03 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 23:38 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 15:49 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 00:10 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 17:22 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 01:40 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 18:03 -0800
                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 17:25 -0500
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 23:29 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 23:55 -0500
                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 10:05 +0100
                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 11:20 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 11:41 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 13:48 +0100
                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:43 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 21:23 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 14:41 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 09:39 +0100
                                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 11:35 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 14:51 +0100
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 15:05 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:49 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 20:48 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 16:51 -0500
                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 01:18 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 23:57 -0500
                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 11:38 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 13:28 -0500
                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 00:06 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 20:02 -0500
                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 02:22 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 21:42 -0500
                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 01:56 +0000
                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 21:25 -0500
                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:33 +0000
                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-03 15:20 +0100
                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:40 -0500
                                                    Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-02 21:57 +1300
                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 10:46 -0500
                                    Re: absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-30 06:36 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 16:41 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-30 20:50 +1300
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 11:11 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 12:00 +0000
                                  Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-30 11:32 -0500
                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 19:25 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 20:45 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 12:52 -0800
                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-30 14:17 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 10:14 +0100
                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 07:37 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 17:05 +0100
                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 10:06 -0800
                                                Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-01 13:53 -0500
                                                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 12:22 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-01 19:02 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 10:05 +0100
                                                    Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 17:28 +0100
                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 21:13 +0000
                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:53 -0800
                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 11:51 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 12:52 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 14:28 -0800
                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 14:48 -0800
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 15:00 -0800
                                                      Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-01 19:28 -0800
                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 10:30 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 07:24 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 10:50 -0500
                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 09:39 -0800
                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 10:17 -0800
                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-02 11:46 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 15:02 -0500
                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 11:58 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 13:25 -0800
                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 15:31 -0500
                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 13:34 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 19:32 -0500
                                                                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-03 01:11 +0000
                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 20:48 -0500
                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:11 +0000
                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 21:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:50 +0000
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 22:45 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-03 11:07 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 13:46 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 23:29 +0000
                                                                                        Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-03 18:42 -0500
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 23:59 +0000
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 08:31 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:51 -0800
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 22:08 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 20:19 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-04 01:28 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-04 14:34 +1300
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 00:02 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 10:34 +0100
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 08:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 15:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 16:03 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 19:19 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-04 11:26 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 11:33 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:48 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-04 00:59 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 20:23 -0500
                                                                          Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-03 10:32 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-03 17:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 08:33 -0800
                                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-03 11:08 -0800
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 21:31 +0000
                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-04 08:40 -0800
                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-04 19:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-05 07:15 -0800
                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 16:09 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-05 13:38 -0800
                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 14:12 -0800
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:21 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 22:05 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 09:45 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 13:25 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 10:33 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:25 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 15:10 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 20:48 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-07 14:43 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:26 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 11:32 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 21:56 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 20:28 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:10 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 21:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:01 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 20:00 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-10 04:44 +0000
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 22:49 +0000
                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-05 15:24 -0800
                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:25 -0500
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:24 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 22:47 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:51 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 10:25 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:26 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 02:09 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:30 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 01:44 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:29 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 21:54 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:05 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:16 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 16:45 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-09 21:07 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:58 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 17:49 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-09 16:46 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:56 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:04 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-10 08:45 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:54 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:40 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-11 23:13 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 17:59 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:13 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:02 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:47 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-17 13:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 09:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:48 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-18 16:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 11:54 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-19 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 17:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-19 15:11 -0800
                                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 19:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-19 17:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 21:41 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-17 09:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:49 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-18 08:26 -0800
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 11:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-19 19:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 17:40 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 18:03 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:44 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 01:19 -0600
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 21:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:02 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:59 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:52 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:18 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:29 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 04:12 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:44 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 06:10 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:58 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 10:21 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 10:25 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:28 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 02:48 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:34 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 06:58 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 15:15 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 12:30 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 16:25 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 13:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 13:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 14:03 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 14:50 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:46 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:44 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:12 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:00 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 14:08 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:28 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:29 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 14:49 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 16:24 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 17:04 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:29 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:37 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 14:25 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 02:19 +0000
                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 02:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:36 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 16:22 +0100
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 10:52 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 08:11 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:08 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 12:50 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-09 10:14 +1300
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-08 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-09 10:21 +1300
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-08 22:24 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-09 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:05 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 03:22 -0600
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 15:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:57 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-12 00:13 -0600
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:48 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:59 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-11 23:18 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 17:59 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:39 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:45 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:01 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-17 11:27 -0800
                                                                                                                                People who confuse and jumble up the difference between past, present, and future (Was: absence of max) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-12-17 20:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:17 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:17 -0500
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:15 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 08:40 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:19 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 12:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 14:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:24 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 16:58 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:09 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-11 20:56 +1300
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-09 16:52 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:35 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:42 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:54 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 16:14 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 18:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:08 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:25 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 15:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:11 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:21 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 01:48 -0600
                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:02 +0100
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:39 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-10 04:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-10 00:13 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 22:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:19 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-07 19:40 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:38 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 07:52 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 19:37 +0000
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-08 15:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-13 13:04 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-13 13:38 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-13 14:07 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-13 22:51 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-14 08:17 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-14 11:49 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-14 16:53 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 05:14 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-15 15:02 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 08:54 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-15 19:55 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 13:48 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 14:20 -0800
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 15:32 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-15 23:44 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 07:00 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-16 08:21 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 21:10 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-16 13:24 -0800
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2016-12-16 18:51 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-20 09:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-20 02:21 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-14 19:05 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:46 -0800
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 15:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 00:18 +0000
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-09 07:25 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 11:29 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 09:07 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 14:20 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 21:31 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:15 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:04 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:27 -0500
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 22:11 +0000
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 15:45 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:21 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:19 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:15 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:31 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 04:14 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:50 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 23:18 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:05 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-17 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:40 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:20 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 17:29 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 17:58 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-12 19:11 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-12 15:38 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-15 12:08 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:06 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:49 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:44 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:47 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:45 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-17 13:52 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Parity Error <kgf@quiscurat.net> - 2016-12-18 09:17 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:23 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 12:23 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 20:45 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:32 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 08:42 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:40 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 16:10 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:33 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-11 13:01 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:11 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 23:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 18:59 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 00:09 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 20:56 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:04 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:50 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-11 16:18 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-11 19:38 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 21:04 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:35 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:52 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 23:22 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-12 17:35 +1300
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:54 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 13:01 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 10:05 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:09 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-12 13:12 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:03 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-12 12:58 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:11 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:53 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:46 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:49 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:07 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:47 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:53 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Parity Error <kgf@quiscurat.net> - 2016-12-18 09:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:32 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-12 13:26 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 19:39 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-12 11:31 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:07 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 23:10 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 19:01 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 00:11 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 21:06 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:19 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 10:07 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 15:22 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:13 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-12 15:38 +0000
                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 08:54 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 17:20 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 07:35 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 09:52 -0800
                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 10:44 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-30 16:52 -0500
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 08:31 -0800
                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:15 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:49 +0100
        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 17:35 +0100
          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 09:39 -0800
            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 20:35 +0100
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 20:10 +0000
                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 22:07 +0100
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 22:55 +0000
                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 12:46 +0100
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 13:16 +0000
                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 14:52 +0100
                      Re: absence of max jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-11-28 09:41 -0800
                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 11:04 +0100
          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 18:02 +0000
            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 20:52 +0100
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 20:31 +0000
                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 22:09 +0000
                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 14:14 -0800
                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 23:02 +0000
                      Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-27 23:26 +0000
                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 23:43 +0000
                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-27 23:46 +0000
                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 12:56 +0100
                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-27 16:21 -0800
            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 10:10 -0800
    Re: absence of max Tim Prince <tprince@computer.org> - 2016-11-27 07:40 -0500
    absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-27 08:46 -0800
      Re: absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 09:18 -0800
        Re: absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-27 09:22 -0800
          Re: absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 09:27 -0800
          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 17:33 +0000
            Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 17:51 +0000
    Re: absence of max Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-11-30 13:15 -0500
    Re: absence of max "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 12:33 +0800

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#97864

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2016-12-02 21:57 +1300
Message-ID<eacrb5Fe488U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97855
On 12/ 2/16 01:06 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>
>> C has always been able to pass values without using registers.  In fact,
>> it's only been the last few years that has become common.
>
> That has nothing to do with what I said.  I said all of early C's values
> would fit into a machine register.

Don't forget that Jerry World is stuck somewhere in the 90s where 
machines that favour passing parameters in registers, such as SPARC, are 
recent inventions.

-- 
Ian

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#97883

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-02 10:46 -0500
Message-ID<o1s4sv$fc6$6@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#97864
On 12/2/2016 3:57 AM, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 12/ 2/16 01:06 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> C has always been able to pass values without using registers.  In fact,
>>> it's only been the last few years that has become common.
>>
>> That has nothing to do with what I said.  I said all of early C's values
>> would fit into a machine register.
> 
> Don't forget that Jerry World is stuck somewhere in the 90s where
> machines that favour passing parameters in registers, such as SPARC, are
> recent inventions.
> 

Don't forget that Ian is a total idiot with no understanding of real
computer operations.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#97779

Fromasetofsymbols@gmail.com
Date2016-11-30 06:36 -0800
Message-ID<6e336313-2fd4-41e5-b2b0-7d94cd54b91a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97773
Bart wrote:
>   *(P+i); 

Because index is one important
operation why not just P.i ?

one char less than P[i]

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#97783

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-11-30 16:41 +0000
Message-ID<o1mveb$im5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97779
On 30/11/2016 14:36, asetofsymbols@gmail.com wrote:
> Bart wrote:
>>   *(P+i);
>
> Because index is one important
> operation why not just P.i ?
>
> one char less than P[i]

P.i already has another meaning that would clash. But a dedicated syntax 
for *(P+i), if P[i] was off-limits, might be P.(i) (or P.[i] but I would 
reserve that for something else). This allows for P.(i+1) which wouldn't 
work as P.i+1.

The one- or two- character difference between these forms is not 
significant, when you allow for more sensible identifiers and the usual 
punctuation that C needs anyway.

-- 
Bartc

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#97768

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 20:50 +1300
Message-ID<ea7em7Fbq11U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97723
On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
>
> Yet, to an outsider, C is allowing you to access p as though it was
> actually an array. That must seem extraordinarily lax. You can even do
> it quite blatantly:
>
>     int A;
>     A = (&A)[123456789];
>
> Not a beep out of the compiler! (This crashes BTW.)

cc x.c
"x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely uninitialized read (variable A): main
CC x.c
"x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely out-of-bound read: 
*((main)::A[123456789]) in function main

So make the index 1:

cc x.c
"x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely uninitialized read (variable A): main
CC x.c
"x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely out-of-bound read: *((main)::A[1]) in 
function main

So some compilers "beep"..

-- 
Ian

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#97772

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-11-30 11:11 +0000
Message-ID<o1mc22$bsv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97768
On 30/11/2016 07:50, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
>>
>> Yet, to an outsider, C is allowing you to access p as though it was
>> actually an array. That must seem extraordinarily lax. You can even do
>> it quite blatantly:
>>
>>     int A;
>>     A = (&A)[123456789];
>>
>> Not a beep out of the compiler! (This crashes BTW.)
>
> cc x.c
> "x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely uninitialized read (variable A): main
> CC x.c
> "x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely out-of-bound read:
> *((main)::A[123456789]) in function main
>
> So make the index 1:
>
> cc x.c
> "x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely uninitialized read (variable A): main
> CC x.c
> "x.c", line 6: Warning: Likely out-of-bound read: *((main)::A[1]) in
> function main
>
> So some compilers "beep"..

Which one is that?

The only warning I get is that A is uninitialised:

   gcc -Wall -Wextra -Wpedantic -Warray-bounds c.c

And that's if I turn on all that.

But that code fragment is just an illustration; the real problem is 
indexing any T* type, especially when it is a function parameter, as the 
compile can't tell if the T* properly points to something where indexing 
would be meaningful, or if the programmer has made a mistake.

Maybe, on some compilers, with the right combination of options, when 
all the relevant code is in the same module, then you might be lucky 
enough to see a warning. But that's no thanks to the language.

C has effectively decided that any individual variable, any element in a 
mixed-type struct, a single scalar parameter, a blind pointer to 
anything at all, can be considered to be a 1-element array, and 
therefore fair game to be used as though it /is/ an array, whether it is 
in actuality or not.

And because the rules of the language allow it (and therefore turn any 
nonsense use of indexing into a mere out-of-bounds error, passing the 
buck to the programmer), none of the experts here are going to say there 
is anything wrong with it. They can't.

-- 
Bartc

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#97774

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-11-30 12:00 +0000
Message-ID<87a8ch18kc.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#97772
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
<snip>
>> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
<snip>
>>>     int A;
>>>     A = (&A)[123456789];
<snip>

> C has effectively decided that any individual variable, any element in
> a mixed-type struct, a single scalar parameter, a blind pointer to
> anything at all, can be considered to be a 1-element array, and
> therefore fair game to be used as though it /is/ an array, whether it
> is in actuality or not.

No, C hasn't decided that.  It's decided that it is most definitely not
"fair game" to do that.  Making something undefined is the opposite of
that.

(C does not require an implementation to enforce those rules, but you
can get gcc to give you a run-time check using its sanitize options.)

> And because the rules of the language allow it [...]

What I think you mean is that the syntax allows it.

-- 
Ben.

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#97782

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-11-30 11:32 -0500
Message-ID<o1mut8$gj8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97774
On 11/30/2016 07:00 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> <snip>
>>> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
> <snip>
>>>>     int A;
>>>>     A = (&A)[123456789];
> <snip>
> 
>> C has effectively decided that any individual variable, any element in
>> a mixed-type struct, a single scalar parameter, a blind pointer to
>> anything at all, can be considered to be a 1-element array, and
>> therefore fair game to be used as though it /is/ an array, whether it
>> is in actuality or not.
> 
> No, C hasn't decided that.  It's decided that it is most definitely not
> "fair game" to do that.  Making something undefined is the opposite of
> that.

The expression above does have undefined behavior, but so would the
1-element array version:

    int B[1];
    (&B[0])[1234567890];

so that's not something that distinguishes a single object from a
1-element array.

As far as I can see, 6.5.16p7 has precisely the effect he's described in
such disparaging terms:

"For the purposes of these operators, a pointer to an object that is not
an element of an array behaves the same as a pointer to the first
element of an array of length one with the type of the object as its
element type."

Is there anything you can do with &B[0] that has defined behavior, that
has undefined behavior if you try to do the same thing with &A?

> (C does not require an implementation to enforce those rules, but you
> can get gcc to give you a run-time check using its sanitize options.)
> 
>> And because the rules of the language allow it [...]
> 
> What I think you mean is that the syntax allows it.

6.5.16p7 is in the semantics section, not the syntax section.

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#97791

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-11-30 19:25 +0000
Message-ID<874m2o22jy.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#97782
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:

> On 11/30/2016 07:00 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>>>> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>>>     int A;
>>>>>     A = (&A)[123456789];
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> C has effectively decided that any individual variable, any element in
>>> a mixed-type struct, a single scalar parameter, a blind pointer to
>>> anything at all, can be considered to be a 1-element array, and
>>> therefore fair game to be used as though it /is/ an array, whether it
>>> is in actuality or not.
>> 
>> No, C hasn't decided that.  It's decided that it is most definitely not
>> "fair game" to do that.  Making something undefined is the opposite of
>> that.
>
> The expression above does have undefined behavior, but so would the
> 1-element array version:
>
>     int B[1];
>     (&B[0])[1234567890];
>
> so that's not something that distinguishes a single object from a
> 1-element array.

Sure.  But I don't think BartC's objection is to this equivalence
between plain objects (so to speak) and arrays of length 1.  If it were,
he's have used (&A)[0] as the example to mock.  He's complaining that
you can arbitrarily index &A.  (Previous posts on this topic used
(&A)[i] as a general case.)

<snip>
>>> And because the rules of the language allow it [...]
>> 
>> What I think you mean is that the syntax allows it.
>
> 6.5.16p7 is in the semantics section, not the syntax section.

I think BartC wants a syntax that distinguishes between pointers and
arrays, or, at the very least, between pointers that can be indexed and
those that can only be dereferenced (with arithmetic on them being
prohibited).

He complains that there is no peep from the compiler about the code
above and concludes from that that C permits iy.  All C permits is the
syntax of the code he wrote above.  The semantics of what he wrote (with
1234567890 as the index) is not permitted.

-- 
Ben.

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#97792

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-11-30 20:45 +0000
Message-ID<o1ndni$bsd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97791
On 30/11/2016 19:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

>>>>> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
>>>>>>     int A;
>>>>>>     A = (&A)[123456789];

> I think BartC wants a syntax that distinguishes between pointers and
> arrays,

Syntax on its own won't know what's an array and what's a pointer.

The restriction I would have liked (or would simply have liked others to 
acknowledge since its too late for the language) was that A[i] is only 
allowed when A is of type T[] (ie. array of T).

And that *A or *(A+i) is only allowed when A is of type T*

> or, at the very least, between pointers that can be indexed and
> those that can only be dereferenced (with arithmetic on them being
> prohibited).

That was touched on in some thread or other (having two varieties of 
pointers) but I don't think it's necessary to go that far (although I've 
never created such an implementation to see how well it might work).

I think that with the segregation of arrays, then that might be enough 
to remove many of conflicts I'm not happy about. People will always want 
to do ++P and *(P+offset) on pointers, but it will be obvious that this 
is messing about with pointers and that some insalubrious goings-on 
might be in hand! So code will be scrutinised more carefully.

So, with just one variety of pointer, this is still possible (in my 
language too):

     int A;
     int* P=&A;
     *(P+123456789);

but not:

     P[123456789];

  > He complains that there is no peep from the compiler about the code
> above and concludes from that that C permits it.  All C permits is the
> syntax of the code he wrote above.  The semantics of what he wrote (with
> 1234567890 as the index) is not permitted.

I think that in the form of P[123...] it has to be permitted, as P might 
well be a char* pointing to a 1.5GB block of memory. The purpose of the 
(&A)[123...] example was to show more clearly how nonsensical it can be.

-- 
Bartc

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#97793

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-11-30 12:52 -0800
Message-ID<lny4007krx.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#97792
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 30/11/2016 19:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/30/16 12:17 AM, BartC wrote:
>>>>>>>     int A;
>>>>>>>     A = (&A)[123456789];
>
>> I think BartC wants a syntax that distinguishes between pointers and
>> arrays,
>
> Syntax on its own won't know what's an array and what's a pointer.
>
> The restriction I would have liked (or would simply have liked others to 
> acknowledge since its too late for the language) was that A[i] is only 
> allowed when A is of type T[] (ie. array of T).
[...]

Can you clarify what you mean by "would simply have liked others
to acknowledge"?  What form would such an acknowledgement take?

I've repeatedly acknowledged that you want such a restriction.
What more do you want?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#97795

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-11-30 14:17 -0800
Message-ID<4894f89e-1b6a-4a7e-97b5-e12c9734da41@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97792
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 2:46:08 PM UTC-6, Bart wrote:
> I think that with the segregation of arrays, then that might be enough 
> to remove many of conflicts I'm not happy about. People will always want 
> to do ++P and *(P+offset) on pointers, but it will be obvious that this 
> is messing about with pointers and that some insalubrious goings-on 
> might be in hand! So code will be scrutinised more carefully.

From an optimization perspective, it would be useful to have the language
distinguish between accessing an element which is x from the start of an
array, versus accessing an object which is displaced x from the address
of another object (which might not be the first one in an array).  For
the kind of compilers Dennis Ritchie was anticipating, the two operations
would be equivalent, but given code like:

    void foo(int array1[], int array2[], int start, int end)
    {
      for (int i=start; i<end; i++)
        array1[i] = array2[i] * 100;
    }

it would be helpful for a compiler to know that the operations on all of
the array elements may be performed independently in any order, which will
be possible the regions accessed through array1 and array2 are either
identical or disjoint, but will not be possible if they partially overlap.
If the array size were known at compile time and the function were written
as:

    void foo(int (*array1)[1000], int array2[1000], int start, int end)
    {
      for (int i=start; i<end; i++)
        (*array1)[i] = (*array2)[i] * 100;
    }

I think a compiler would be entitled to make that assumption, but I don't
think there's any equivalent form for the scenario where the array size
isn't known.  It might be possible using variable-length array types, but
that would require that "foo" be passed the array size even though nothing
in the code would actually make use of the value passed.

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#97814

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-01 10:14 +0100
Message-ID<o1opij$803$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97795
On 30/11/16 23:17, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 2:46:08 PM UTC-6, Bart wrote:
>> I think that with the segregation of arrays, then that might be enough 
>> to remove many of conflicts I'm not happy about. People will always want 
>> to do ++P and *(P+offset) on pointers, but it will be obvious that this 
>> is messing about with pointers and that some insalubrious goings-on 
>> might be in hand! So code will be scrutinised more carefully.
> 
> From an optimization perspective, it would be useful to have the language
> distinguish between accessing an element which is x from the start of an
> array, versus accessing an object which is displaced x from the address
> of another object (which might not be the first one in an array).  For
> the kind of compilers Dennis Ritchie was anticipating, the two operations
> would be equivalent, but given code like:
> 
>     void foo(int array1[], int array2[], int start, int end)
>     {
>       for (int i=start; i<end; i++)
>         array1[i] = array2[i] * 100;
>     }
> 
> it would be helpful for a compiler to know that the operations on all of
> the array elements may be performed independently in any order, which will
> be possible the regions accessed through array1 and array2 are either
> identical or disjoint, but will not be possible if they partially overlap.
> If the array size were known at compile time and the function were written
> as:
> 
>     void foo(int (*array1)[1000], int array2[1000], int start, int end)
>     {
>       for (int i=start; i<end; i++)
>         (*array1)[i] = (*array2)[i] * 100;
>     }
> 
> I think a compiler would be entitled to make that assumption, but I don't
> think there's any equivalent form for the scenario where the array size
> isn't known.  It might be possible using variable-length array types, but
> that would require that "foo" be passed the array size even though nothing
> in the code would actually make use of the value passed.
> 

Yes, if only C had a way to write something like:

void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)

then the optimiser would be free to assume that array1 and array2 don't
overlap!

Oh wait, C /does/ have a way to write that.

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#97822

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-01 07:37 -0800
Message-ID<8e947169-6c71-4977-b6fd-bb7a1185994b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97814
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 3:14:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> Yes, if only C had a way to write something like:
> 
> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
> 
> then the optimiser would be free to assume that array1 and array2 don't
> overlap!
> 
> Oh wait, C /does/ have a way to write that.

A search of C99 "restrict" revealed an example of that syntax, and a search
of N1570 finds the same example, but I couldn't find anyplace in either
standard that actually described its meaning.  What am I missing?

Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.

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#97823

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-01 17:05 +0100
Message-ID<o1phmq$u3h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97822
On 01/12/16 16:37, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 3:14:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
>> Yes, if only C had a way to write something like:
>>
>> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
>>
>> then the optimiser would be free to assume that array1 and array2 don't
>> overlap!
>>
>> Oh wait, C /does/ have a way to write that.
> 
> A search of C99 "restrict" revealed an example of that syntax, and a search
> of N1570 finds the same example, but I couldn't find anyplace in either
> standard that actually described its meaning.  What am I missing?


void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)

is compatible with:

void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)

So presumably it has the same meaning.  I did not see any clear
definition in the standard either.

> 
> Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
> but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.
> 

I am trying to think of an example where it could be relevant.  You have
to get your array references from somewhere.  Either you get them from
parameters (and can use the "restrict" qualifier), or you have direct
access to the actual arrays, in which case the compiler already knows
that they can't overlap.  Can you give a /realistic/ example?

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#97825

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-01 10:06 -0800
Message-ID<ea597220-6023-45c5-9aac-e618351f786e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97823
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 10:06:09 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> On 01/12/16 16:37, supercat wrote:
> > A search of C99 "restrict" revealed an example of that syntax, and a search
> > of N1570 finds the same example, but I couldn't find anyplace in either
> > standard that actually described its meaning.  What am I missing?
> 
> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
> 
> is compatible with:
> 
> void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)
> 
> So presumably it has the same meaning.  I did not see any clear
> definition in the standard either.

It would also be compatible with the same definition without qualifiers,
even though a function definition without qualifiers would clearly not
have the same meaning.

The semantics I was asking for would be incompatible with a function
definition that applied the qualifier to the variables, since that would
require that array1 and array2 be disjoint, rather than merely forbidding
*partial* overlap.  It would make sense for the [restrict] syntax to
allow coincident pointers but not partial overlap, but I don't see anything
in the Standard which would actually say such a thing.

> > Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
> > but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.
> 
> I am trying to think of an example where it could be relevant.  You have
> to get your array references from somewhere.  Either you get them from
> parameters (and can use the "restrict" qualifier), or you have direct
> access to the actual arrays, in which case the compiler already knows
> that they can't overlap.  Can you give a /realistic/ example?

Calling a function that returns a pointer to the start of an allocated
region which is used as an array.  Global variables which hold pointers
to the start of an allocated region which is used as an array.

Knowing that a pointer identifies the start of something that's used as
an array, and knowing that two such pointers can only alias at elements
with matching indices may facilitate optimizations in cases where a
compiler would not otherwise be able to ascertain anything useful about
the provenance of the pointers in question.

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#97832

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-12-01 13:53 -0500
Message-ID<o1prh6$4up$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97823
On 12/01/2016 11:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 01/12/16 16:37, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 3:14:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
>>> Yes, if only C had a way to write something like:
>>>
>>> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
>>>
>>> then the optimiser would be free to assume that array1 and array2 don't
>>> overlap!
>>>
>>> Oh wait, C /does/ have a way to write that.
>>
>> A search of C99 "restrict" revealed an example of that syntax, and a search
>> of N1570 finds the same example, but I couldn't find anyplace in either
>> standard that actually described its meaning.  What am I missing?
> 
> 
> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
> 
> is compatible with:
> 
> void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)

More precisely, those are two different ways of declaring precisely the
same function prototype.

> So presumably it has the same meaning.  I did not see any clear
> definition in the standard either.

Did you fail to find 6.7.3.1, or did you fail to consider it a clear
definition? If the latter, I can sympathize. I think I understand that
clause, but it's one of the more obscure parts of the standard.

>> Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
>> but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.

The use of array syntax to declare what are actually pointers is allowed
only in function parameter declarations. However, any pointer to an
object type may be restrict-qualified.

Note: restrict doesn't say that the arrays the pointers point at cannot
overlap, it says that if any object accessed by using an expression
based upon a restrict-qualified pointer is also accessed within the
scope of that pointer by any other means, the behavior is undefined.
Consider a global 2-dimensional array named squares, representing the
squares of a chess board, and a routine that declares a
restrict-qualified pointer to a square, named wsq, which is only ever
used to access the white squares on the board. If the same routine uses
the global array directly, but only to access the black squares, then
such use does not violates the requirements for restrict - no square is
accessed by both methods.

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#97840

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-01 12:22 -0800
Message-ID<f920c813-9b3d-4a98-a1ce-3facd45d4cd5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97832
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:53:47 PM UTC-6, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 11:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
> > void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
> > 
> > is compatible with:
> > 
> > void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)
> 
> More precisely, those are two different ways of declaring precisely the
> same function prototype.

What in the Standard says that they are equivalent?  A static qualifier
within an array bound behaves totally differently from a qualifier anywhere
outside the array bound, and I can't think of any qualifiers which are
specified as working identically inside or outside.

> Did you fail to find 6.7.3.1, or did you fail to consider it a clear
> definition? If the latter, I can sympathize. I think I understand that
> clause, but it's one of the more obscure parts of the standard.
> 
> >> Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
> >> but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.
> 
> The use of array syntax to declare what are actually pointers is allowed
> only in function parameter declarations. However, any pointer to an
> object type may be restrict-qualified.
> 
> Note: restrict doesn't say that the arrays the pointers point at cannot
> overlap, it says that if any object accessed by using an expression
> based upon a restrict-qualified pointer is also accessed within the
> scope of that pointer by any other means, the behavior is undefined.
> Consider a global 2-dimensional array named squares, representing the
> squares of a chess board, and a routine that declares a
> restrict-qualified pointer to a square, named wsq, which is only ever
> used to access the white squares on the board. If the same routine uses
> the global array directly, but only to access the black squares, then
> such use does not violates the requirements for restrict - no square is
> accessed by both methods.

I understand what restrict means.  My point is that given a piece of code
like:

    void scale_array(double *dest, double const *src, int n, double scale)
    {
      for (i=0; i<n; i++)
        dest[i] = src[i] * scale;
    }

there's no qualifier that would allow safe vectorization while still
allowing the function to operate on an array in place without having to
explicitly write the code as:

    void scale_array(double *restrict dest, double const *restrict src,
                     int n, double scale)
    {
      if (dest == src)
        for (i=0; i<n; i++)
          dest[i] = dest[i] * scale;
      else
        for (i=0; i<n; i++)
          dest[i] = src[i] * scale;
    }

effectively doubling the amount of code necessary to do the same thing.

If writing the header as

    void scale_array(double dest[restrict], double const src[restrict],
                     int n, double scale)

would allow vectorization without requiring code duplication, then I
may have been complaining about the "lack" of a feature which actually
exists, but if the Standard doesn't make the meaning clear, then I
would suggest the feature isn't really usable.

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#97859

Fromjameskuyper@verizon.net
Date2016-12-01 19:02 -0800
Message-ID<aa308104-e76e-477e-9ab1-1ddf16e0e51f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97840
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5, supe...@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:53:47 PM UTC-6, James Kuyper wrote:
> > On 12/01/2016 11:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
> > > void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
> > > 
> > > is compatible with:
> > > 
> > > void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)
> > 
> > More precisely, those are two different ways of declaring precisely the
> > same function prototype.
> 
> What in the Standard says that they are equivalent?

The only grammar productions that allow type qualifiers such as
restrict to appear inside the square brackets of an array declaration
are in 6.7.6.2p1, which says "See 6.7.6.3 for the meaning of the
optional type qualifiers...".

6.7.6.3p7 says:
"A declaration of a parameter as ‘‘array of type’’ shall be adjusted
to ‘‘qualified pointer to type’’, where the type qualifiers (if any)
are those specified within the [ and ] of the array type derivation."

Within the limitations of standardese, you couldn't hope for a more
explicit statement of the fact that, as function parameter
declarations, "int array1[restrict]" and "int * restrict array1" are
exactly equivalent.

> ...  A static qualifier
> within an array bound behaves totally differently from a qualifier
> anywhere outside the array bound, and I can't think of and
> qualifiers which are specified as working identically inside or
> outside.

The only defined behavior for type qualifiers inside the array bound
is the one provided by 6.7.6.3p7. I'm curious what the difference is
that you thought there was between those two declarations.

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#97865

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-02 10:05 +0100
Message-ID<o1rddh$uke$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97832
On 01/12/16 19:53, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 11:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 01/12/16 16:37, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 3:14:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
>>>> Yes, if only C had a way to write something like:
>>>>
>>>> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
>>>>
>>>> then the optimiser would be free to assume that array1 and array2 don't
>>>> overlap!
>>>>
>>>> Oh wait, C /does/ have a way to write that.
>>>
>>> A search of C99 "restrict" revealed an example of that syntax, and a search
>>> of N1570 finds the same example, but I couldn't find anyplace in either
>>> standard that actually described its meaning.  What am I missing?
>>
>>
>> void foo(int array1[restrict], int array2[restrict], int start, int end)
>>
>> is compatible with:
>>
>> void foo(int * restrict array1, int * restrict array2, int start, int end)
> 
> More precisely, those are two different ways of declaring precisely the
> same function prototype.

I was basing this on 6.7.6.3 Example 5, which says "The following are
all compatible function prototype declarations".  (I am using the N1570
draft of C11 standard here.)  As far as I know, these are, as you say,
different ways of declaring the same prototype.  But I could only find a
reference for them being /compatible/.

> 
>> So presumably it has the same meaning.  I did not see any clear
>> definition in the standard either.
> 
> Did you fail to find 6.7.3.1, or did you fail to consider it a clear
> definition? If the latter, I can sympathize. I think I understand that
> clause, but it's one of the more obscure parts of the standard.

I did find the section - and it is not the easiest part of the standard!
 In particular, I did not find any clear way to see what "restrict"
meant in the context of "int array1[restrict]" - and it was clarity that
Supercat wanted.  Maybe I could have studied the section harder.

> 
>>> Also, there's no reason such meaning should only be available to parameters
>>> but I don't think that syntax would be allowable in any other context.
> 
> The use of array syntax to declare what are actually pointers is allowed
> only in function parameter declarations. However, any pointer to an
> object type may be restrict-qualified.
> 
> Note: restrict doesn't say that the arrays the pointers point at cannot
> overlap, it says that if any object accessed by using an expression
> based upon a restrict-qualified pointer is also accessed within the
> scope of that pointer by any other means, the behavior is undefined.
> Consider a global 2-dimensional array named squares, representing the
> squares of a chess board, and a routine that declares a
> restrict-qualified pointer to a square, named wsq, which is only ever
> used to access the white squares on the board. If the same routine uses
> the global array directly, but only to access the black squares, then
> such use does not violates the requirements for restrict - no square is
> accessed by both methods.
> 

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