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Groups > comp.lang.c > #163577 > unrolled thread

"C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott

Started byLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
First post2021-11-22 16:19 -0600
Last post2021-12-06 16:21 +0100
Articles 14 on this page of 94 — 22 participants

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  "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-22 16:19 -0600
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-22 14:58 -0800
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-23 07:10 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 13:12 -0800
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-24 10:54 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 12:01 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-24 13:58 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 13:23 -0800
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-22 18:25 -0500
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-23 07:21 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 04:50 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2021-11-23 17:56 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-24 10:55 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:00 -0600
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-24 16:04 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 11:43 +0100
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-23 14:17 +0200
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 16:53 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-24 11:40 +0200
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-24 15:49 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:01 -0600
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-24 11:33 +0200
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 15:28 -0600
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 14:39 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 16:55 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 12:28 -0500
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:05 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 13:41 -0500
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:53 +0100
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 16:31 -0800
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 21:27 -0500
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 18:32 +0100
                    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 12:54 -0500
                      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 20:52 +0100
                        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 15:13 -0500
                          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-25 19:13 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 16:25 -0800
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-24 15:48 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 11:54 -0500
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 11:19 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-25 11:46 +0000
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 15:57 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-25 07:04 -0500
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 15:59 +0000
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2021-11-26 03:37 -0800
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 16:03 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-23 15:50 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 17:51 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 17:00 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 12:36 -0500
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 19:24 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 13:50 -0500
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 20:02 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 20:59 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 20:50 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2021-11-24 11:18 +1300
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 22:58 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 23:46 +0100
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 13:59 +0000
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-12-11 13:25 +0000
                    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-11 14:54 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-25 12:12 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 23:35 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-24 15:30 +0100
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 14:43 +0000
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 20:29 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 16:14 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 11:56 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 10:14 -0800
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-24 19:55 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:13 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:11 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:17 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 20:42 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 23:25 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-12-11 14:07 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-11 18:46 +0000
                [OT] Lisp.  Was: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-11 20:11 +0000
                  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-13 17:59 -0800
                    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-14 03:18 +0000
                      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-16 10:57 -0800
                        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-16 22:03 +0000
                          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-20 02:40 -0800
                            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-20 12:05 +0000
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 14:12 -0800
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-25 12:00 +0100
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-12-05 22:51 +0200
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-05 19:20 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 01:52 -0800
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 12:19 -0800
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 12:27 -0800
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-06 12:28 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-12-06 13:40 +0200
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 16:21 +0100

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#163870 — Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"

FromDave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-16 10:57 -0800
SubjectRe: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"
Message-ID<1781f8bb-c40a-40f1-a806-6069d2a8be28n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#163831
On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:18:36 PM UTC-5, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Dave Dunfield  writes: 
> 
> >>"C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott 
> > 
> > Assuming by "Green", he means which programming language allows a programmer 
> > to "accomplish the most goals" with the least amount of cycles (energy 
> > use)...
> Why are you replying to me? Why do you include a quoted line that was 
> not in the post you are replying to? Maybe something is wrong with your 
> news client. 

Sorry, I "thought" I had removed attrition - and just quoted a line I recalled seeing in the initial posting
(that I could see) - curious to know how it shows up as "a reply to you", as I don't see any mention
of you in my reader" ...

I probably should have removed the extra '>' showing "a quote of a quote" but as there was no other
text it didn't seem (to me) to be an issue... It's pretty clearly only referencing the initial text.
sorry if this oversight bothered you.

I do know my reader is "broken", I'm still using "Google Groups" while I decide if it's worth getting back
into this or not ... GG isn't at all friendly to "C" or programming - groups. (I've no doubt that a number of
people who have also "responded to me" will be pleased I'm leaning toward the "not" :-)

Dave

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#163887 — Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2021-12-16 22:03 +0000
SubjectRe: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"
Message-ID<87lf0kurzv.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#163870
Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> writes:

> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:18:36 PM UTC-5, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Dave Dunfield  writes: 
>> 
>> >>"C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott 
>> > 
>> > Assuming by "Green", he means which programming language allows a programmer 
>> > to "accomplish the most goals" with the least amount of cycles (energy 
>> > use)...
>> Why are you replying to me? Why do you include a quoted line that was 
>> not in the post you are replying to? Maybe something is wrong with your 
>> news client. 
>
> Sorry, I "thought" I had removed attrition - and just quoted a line I
> recalled seeing in the initial posting (that I could see)

You had removed all attributions.  By the way, that's not considered
good form.  People like to know who said what.

> - curious to know how it shows up as "a reply to you", as I don't see
> any mention of you in my reader" ...

Post have an "In-Reply-To" header that gives the ID of the message you
are replying to.  Posts also contain a "References" header that gives
the whole chain of "parent" articles.

> I probably should have removed the extra '>' showing "a quote of a
> quote" but as there was no other text it didn't seem (to me) to be an
> issue... It's pretty clearly only referencing the initial text.  sorry
> if this oversight bothered you.

I was not bothered.  I knew it was reply to me because my newsreader is
set to give them priority.  But anyone who wanted to see who said what
you were replying to would be baffled.  They'd go up to the parent
article and see it was from me, but they would also see that I have not
said what was quoted.

-- 
Ben.

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#164007 — Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"

FromDave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-20 02:40 -0800
SubjectRe: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"
Message-ID<c3f4cc26-f45f-4262-8500-6bd094da6792n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#163887
On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 5:04:01 PM UTC-5, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> You had removed all attributions. By the way, that's not considered 
> good form. People like to know who said what.

I am aware of that, but in this case the "quoted" line was the same as the title!
I wasn't trying to quote anybody, I just wanted to put the context of my reply in
the frame of "the subject of this thread". I amm guilty of being lazy and not
cutting/pasting the title since it was easier to just clip where someone else had
posted it. I should have removed the extra '>' 

> I was not bothered. I knew it was reply to me because my newsreader is
> set to give them priority.

I guess another downside of "Google Groups" -  I use "reply all". Which I thought
would just post to the thread as a whole, not to a particular participant.

> But anyone who wanted to see who said what
> you were replying to would be baffled.

Out of curiosity - what is "good form" to reference the title?

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com

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#164010 — Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2021-12-20 12:05 +0000
SubjectRe: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language"
Message-ID<878rwfmqft.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#164007
Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 5:04:01 PM UTC-5, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
<cut>
>> I was not bothered. I knew it was reply to me because my newsreader is
>> set to give them priority.
>
> I guess another downside of "Google Groups" - I use "reply all". Which
> I thought would just post to the thread as a whole, not to a
> particular participant.

As far as I know, you can't post in an existing thread without it being
a reply to some other specific post.

>> But anyone who wanted to see who said what
>> you were replying to would be baffled.
>
> Out of curiosity - what is "good form" to reference the title?

If the subject line is the only significant context (i.e. you are not
replying to some specif point where quoting that point will help), then
I think the clearest thing it to reply to the head post.  It will appear
to be a reply to whoever posted that head post, but you can't avoid
appearing to replying to someone.

You'll sometimes see people start a post with "piggybacking...", by
which they mean that are replying to one post but they are not really
making any specific points about it.

-- 
Ben.

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#163664

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-24 14:12 -0800
Message-ID<snmdbn$6vb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163577
On 11/22/2021 2:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>     https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
> 
> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 
> group Portuguese university researchers did and set out to quantify it. 
> Their 2017 research paper entitled Energy Efficiency across Programming 
> Languages / How Do Energy, Time, and Memory Relate?  may have escaped 
> your attention, as it did ours."
>     https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sleFinal.pdf
> 
> "Abstract: This paper presents a study of the runtime, memory usage and 
> energy consumption of twenty seven well-known soft- ware languages. We 
> monitor the performance of such lan- guages using ten different 
> programming problems, expressed in each of the languages. Our results 
> show interesting find- ings, such as, slower/faster languages consuming 
> less/more energy, and how memory usage influences energy consump- tion. 
> We show how to use our results to provide software engineers support to 
> decide which language to use when energy efficiency is a concern."
> 

Humm... Perhaps, a main question can be, is there such a thing as a 
"green" programmer? One can write crappy and bloated code in C, that 
goes much slower than, say Python. However, one can write really 
efficient code in C... Therefore, the quality of a programmer seems to 
just want to come into play, so to speak...

Using undefined behavior wrt the standard can be a key aspect to writing 
faster, more efficient code. Possible scenario: This os has built-in 
User-space Read-Copy-Update (URCU). However, if I use it then my program 
is no longer portable...

Can things be greener with a talented programmer and a low-level 
language... Yes!

Can things be greener with a crappy programmer and a low-level 
language... Humm, No? By chance? Unknown...?

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#163666

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2021-11-25 12:00 +0100
Message-ID<snnqbn$1fj9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#163664
On 11/24/2021 11:12 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 11/22/2021 2:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>>     
>> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
>>
>> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
>> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 
>> group Portuguese university researchers did and set out to quantify 
>> it. Their 2017 research paper entitled Energy Efficiency across 
>> Programming Languages / How Do Energy, Time, and Memory Relate?  may 
>> have escaped your attention, as it did ours."
>>     https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sleFinal.pdf
>>
>> "Abstract: This paper presents a study of the runtime, memory usage 
>> and energy consumption of twenty seven well-known soft- ware 
>> languages. We monitor the performance of such lan- guages using ten 
>> different programming problems, expressed in each of the languages. 
>> Our results show interesting find- ings, such as, slower/faster 
>> languages consuming less/more energy, and how memory usage influences 
>> energy consump- tion. We show how to use our results to provide 
>> software engineers support to decide which language to use when energy 
>> efficiency is a concern."
>>
> 
> Humm... Perhaps, a main question can be, is there such a thing as a 
> "green" programmer? One can write crappy and bloated code in C, that 
> goes much slower than, say Python.

Everything is possible, but achieving that requires some specialized 
skillset(!)

  However, one can write really
> efficient code in C... Therefore, the quality of a programmer seems to 
> just want to come into play, so to speak...
> 
> Using undefined behavior wrt the standard can be a key aspect to writing 
> faster, more efficient code. Possible scenario: This os has built-in 
> User-space Read-Copy-Update (URCU). However, if I use it then my program 
> is no longer portable...
> 
> Can things be greener with a talented programmer and a low-level 
> language... Yes!
> 
> Can things be greener with a crappy programmer and a low-level 
> language... Humm, No? By chance? Unknown...?
> 

The issue is about idiomatic constructs, i.e. the mass of code running 
out there. I think that special circumstances and perverse cases do not 
really matter.
Even more considering that C code that is so bad as to manage to perform 
worse than some interpreted language is most likely pretty much 
unmaintainable too, so doomed to fast extinction in the digital ecosystem.

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#163708

FromPaavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee>
Date2021-12-05 22:51 +0200
Message-ID<soj8p4$ucr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163577
23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>     https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
> 
> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 

In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are easily 
defeated by users throwing more data to the program.

Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less than 
a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 images 
in the next version!

So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological 
features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead of 
the former 20!

Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at best 
naïve.

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#163709

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-05 19:20 -0800
Message-ID<sojvid$bl1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163708
On 12/5/2021 12:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
> 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>>     
>> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
>>
>> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
>> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 
> 
> In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are easily 
> defeated by users throwing more data to the program.
> 
> Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less than 
> a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 images 
> in the next version!
> 
> So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological 
> features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead of 
> the former 20!
> 
> Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at best 
> naïve.
> 

Fwiw, a hardcore blow up is when I have to render volumes. 256^3 fine, 
512^3 okay, 1024^3 slow, 2048^3 slow as shit...

4096^3 slower than a snail hiking up a mountain of salt!

Yikes!

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#163712

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-06 01:52 -0800
Message-ID<b92b17b6-d31b-4256-b2c1-e38f44442c21n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#163709
On Monday, 6 December 2021 at 03:20:56 UTC, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 12:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote: 
> > 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas: 
> >> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott 
> >> 
> >> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/ 
> >> 
> >> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
> >> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 
> > 
> > In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are easily 
> > defeated by users throwing more data to the program. 
> > 
> > Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less than 
> > a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 images 
> > in the next version! 
> > 
> > So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological 
> > features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead of 
> > the former 20! 
> > 
> > Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at best 
> > naïve. 
> >
> Fwiw, a hardcore blow up is when I have to render volumes. 256^3 fine, 
> 512^3 okay, 1024^3 slow, 2048^3 slow as shit... 
> 
> 4096^3 slower than a snail hiking up a mountain of salt! 
> 
If the data represents objects, you can use hierachy.
One byte for each region. If 0, the whole region is empty, if bits are set,
divide the region into 0. Clear regions have their bit clear, full or partially-full
regions have their bit set.
(You have to make your objects hollow, or set up some sort of scheme to
handle 255, to avoid wasting time on fully-filled regions).

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#163725

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-06 12:19 -0800
Message-ID<solr7p$i2p$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163712
On 12/6/2021 1:52 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Monday, 6 December 2021 at 03:20:56 UTC, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/5/2021 12:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
>>> 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
>>>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>>>>
>>>> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
>>>>
>>>> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s
>>>> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a
>>>
>>> In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are easily
>>> defeated by users throwing more data to the program.
>>>
>>> Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less than
>>> a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 images
>>> in the next version!
>>>
>>> So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological
>>> features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead of
>>> the former 20!
>>>
>>> Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at best
>>> naïve.
>>>
>> Fwiw, a hardcore blow up is when I have to render volumes. 256^3 fine,
>> 512^3 okay, 1024^3 slow, 2048^3 slow as shit...
>>
>> 4096^3 slower than a snail hiking up a mountain of salt!
>>
> If the data represents objects, you can use hierachy.
> One byte for each region. If 0, the whole region is empty, if bits are set,
> divide the region into 0. Clear regions have their bit clear, full or partially-full
> regions have their bit set.
> (You have to make your objects hollow, or set up some sort of scheme to
> handle 255, to avoid wasting time on fully-filled regions).
> 

Fwiw, here is an example of some of my work wrt generating a "special" 
volumetric Mandelbulb:

https://pastebin.com/raw/v1NNbDRz

https://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery%3Bsa%3Dview%3Bid%3D17187

It dumps out a stack of images that can be rendered in 3d as a volumetric.

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#163726

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-06 12:27 -0800
Message-ID<solro4$lun$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163725
On 12/6/2021 12:19 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 1:52 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 December 2021 at 03:20:56 UTC, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2021 12:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
>>>> 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
>>>>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
[...]
> Fwiw, here is an example of some of my work wrt generating a "special" 
> volumetric Mandelbulb:
> 
> https://pastebin.com/raw/v1NNbDRz

Oops! I do not think that the code I referenced computes my special 
power stacked mandelbulb. Sorry!

> 
> https://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery%3Bsa%3Dview%3Bid%3D17187 

I have pseudo code contained in the content of the link above for the 
power stacked bulb.

Sorry everybody!

> 
> 
> It dumps out a stack of images that can be rendered in 3d as a volumetric.

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#163714

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2021-12-06 12:28 +0100
Message-ID<soks4h$1p94$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#163708
On 12/5/2021 9:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
> 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>>     
>> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
>>
>> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a computer’s 
>> energy consumption and the choice of programming languages? Well, a 
> 
> In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are easily 
> defeated by users throwing more data to the program.
> 
> Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less than 
> a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 images 
> in the next version!
> 
> So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological 
> features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead of 
> the former 20!
> 
> Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at best 
> naïve.
> 

True, but this doesn't make inefficient languages any better, does it?

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#163715

FromPaavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee>
Date2021-12-06 13:40 +0200
Message-ID<soksrm$drc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163714
06.12.2021 13:28 Manfred kirjutas:
> On 12/5/2021 9:51 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
>> 23.11.2021 00:19 Lynn McGuire kirjutas:
>>> "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
>>> https://hackaday.com/2021/11/18/c-is-the-greenest-programming-language/
>>>
>>> "Have you ever wondered if there is a correlation between a 
>>> computer’s energy consumption and the choice of programming 
>>> languages? Well, a 
>>
>> In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software are 
>> easily defeated by users throwing more data to the program.
>>
>> Wow, so you can fully analyze a 1024x1024 microscope image in less 
>> than a second! Wonderful, let's upgrade our hardware to take 2160x2160 
>> images in the next version!
>>
>> So, you managed to speed up the calculation time of morphological 
>> features by 50%. Fine, now we want to calculate 1000 features instead 
>> of the former 20!
>>
>> Thus I'm afraid any hopes for a "green" programming language are at 
>> best naïve.
>>
> 
> True, but this doesn't make inefficient languages any better, does it?

No, it does not.

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#163720

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2021-12-06 16:21 +0100
Message-ID<sol9q7$ekh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#163708
Am 05.12.2021 um 21:51 schrieb Paavo Helde:

> In my experience, any efforts towards more efficient software
> are easily defeated by users throwing more data to the program.

And that should determine the absolute possible efficiency of a 
programming language? I think not.

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