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"Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"

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  "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2019-12-02 13:59 -0600
    Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Pankaj Jangid <p4j@j4d.net> - 2019-12-03 09:21 +0530
      Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-03 02:03 -0300
        Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-12-03 09:40 +0000
          Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-03 11:40 +0100
            Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-12-03 03:05 -0800
              Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-03 16:29 +0100
            NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-12-03 11:33 +0000
              Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-03 16:24 +0100
                Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-12-03 17:13 +0100
              Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> - 2019-12-04 14:32 +0100
                Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-04 16:53 +0000
                  Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-12-04 09:57 -0800
                    Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-04 18:59 +0100
                      Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-12-04 18:17 +0000
                      Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-12-04 10:58 -0800
                        Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-04 20:06 +0100
                          Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-12-04 11:11 -0800
                            Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-05 09:19 -0600
                  Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-04 18:34 +0000
                    Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-05 12:51 +0000
              Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-12-08 04:21 +0000
                Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software") chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-12-09 06:10 -0800
        Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-12-03 04:14 -0800
        Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-03 17:05 -0800
    Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-12-05 02:56 -0800
      Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" "A. K." <minforth@arcor.de> - 2019-12-05 11:29 -0800
      Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-12-05 12:29 -0800
    Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-06 22:11 -0800
      Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-07 07:28 +0100
        Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-11 09:37 -0800
    Re: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software" "A. K." <minforth@arcor.de> - 2019-12-08 23:22 -0800

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#148387 — Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:34:41 +0000
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> wrote:
>On 04/12/2019 16:53, boltar@nowhere.co.uk wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 14:32:37 +0100
>> Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> wrote:
>>> Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <qs5e3e$91s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> David Brown  <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not Invented Here Syndrome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not /Controlled/ Here Syndrome.
>>>>>
>>>>> MS were quite happy to support Java as long as they could make their own
>>>>> incompatible version.  When the courts said they were not allowed to do
>>>>> that (and still call it "Java"), they went off in a huff and made C# as
>>>>> their own alternative to Java which /they/ controlled.
>>>>
>>>> Well, they controlled it because they had invented it.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think we really disagree much here.
>>>>
>>>> P.S.  People often talk as if C# was invented by itself, as a standalone
>>>> language.  In fact, C# is just one member of the .NET/CLR family.  I think
>>>> of VB.NET as the primary .NET language.  I suppose C# comes next after VB.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Note that MS also made the integration of unmanaged C++ code into the
>>> managed DotNet world very simple, something that is much harder to achieve
>>> with Java (co-workers of mine constantly struggle with this, whereas I
>>> enjoy the easy C++/CLI coding :-)
>>>
>>> IMHO, this makes C# more than just a Java clone. I have done three large
>>> projects (> 100kLOC) with C++/C#, and I enjoyed it very much.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> PS: I was lying a little bit. When my managed C++ libraries wouldn't load
>>> because boost::thread uses TLS somewhere inside, I spent an awful great
>> 
>> Boost? Ugh. The sooner that hideous bloatware buggers off down the same
>rubbish
>> chute as Roguewaves APIs did back in the 00s the better. There's been little
>> good reason to use it since c++14 came out.
>
>That's because a good deal of boost is now part of C++; if boost was rubbish

A good deal? Maybe 10%. 

>that wouldn't have happened, idiot.

The average landfill has a few jems in it.

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#148413 — Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software")

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) spake the secret code
<qs5h5n$i9$1@news.xmission.com> thusly:

>P.S.  People often talk as if C# was invented by itself, as a standalone
>language.  In fact, C# is just one member of the .NET/CLR family.  I think
>of VB.NET as the primary .NET language.  I suppose C# comes next after VB.

.NET is really just COM 2.0.  Everything MS learned about binary
components with the huge success of COM was refined and made easier
with .NET/C#.  Many times I have heard people say "C# is just a clone
of Java".  So far every single one of those people has been someone who
hadn't done any significant programming on the Windows platform either
before or after the introduction of .NET.  While .NET/C# shares some
ideas with Java, I dispute the idea that it is just a clone/copy of
Java.

The idea of programming to a virtual machine was around long before
Java.  The IBM AS/400 is one obvious example that predates Java.  So
this was not an invention that came from Java.  Remove the JVM and
what you're left with is another OO curly brace style language, so
that also wasn't some kind of unique invention that originates with
Java.

Having done jobs where I did ~5 years of programming in both
languages, I find it much more pleasant to work in C# than to work in
Java.  The only thing that was a pleasure while working in Java was
using IntelliJ for it's awesome refactoring and navigation
capabilities.
-- 
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
            The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
     The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
  Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

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#148415 — Re: NIHS (Was: "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software")

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 8:21:49 PM UTC-8, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
> 
> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) spake the secret code
> <qs5h5n$i9$1@news.xmission.com> thusly:
> 
> >P.S.  People often talk as if C# was invented by itself, as a standalone
> >language.  In fact, C# is just one member of the .NET/CLR family.  I think
> >of VB.NET as the primary .NET language.  I suppose C# comes next after VB.
> 
> .NET is really just COM 2.0.  Everything MS learned about binary
> components with the huge success of COM was refined and made easier
> with .NET/C#.  Many times I have heard people say "C# is just a clone
> of Java".  So far every single one of those people has been someone who
> hadn't done any significant programming on the Windows platform either
> before or after the introduction of .NET.  

One of the people who said that was a former engineer who actually helped create the Java programming language. And I believe this same individual did far more coding on a Windows platform during his time at MIT than what you will ever do in your lifetime.

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#148360

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 9:03:46 PM UTC-8, Cholo Lennon wrote:
> On 12/3/19 12:51 AM, Pankaj Jangid wrote:
> > Actually, it is considering implementing a new language inspired by
> > Rust. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-were-creating-a-new-rust-based-programming-language-for-secure-coding/
> > 
> OMG! I didn't know that, another programming language and what's worse, 
> created/sponsored by Microsoft :-O
> 
> I've already seen this several times... a company needs to have the 
> control of the tool (Microsoft/VisualBasic/VisualJ/C#/TypeScript/F#, 
> Sun/Java, Google/Go/Dart, JetBrains/Kotlin, etc)
> 
> 
> --
There is also Salesforce creating Apex.

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#148368

On 12/2/2019 9:03 PM, Cholo Lennon wrote:
> On 12/3/19 12:51 AM, Pankaj Jangid wrote:
>> Actually, it is considering implementing a new language inspired by
>> Rust. 
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-were-creating-a-new-rust-based-programming-language-for-secure-coding/ 
>>
>>
> OMG! I didn't know that, another programming language and what's worse, 
> created/sponsored by Microsoft :-O
> 
> I've already seen this several times... a company needs to have the 
> control of the tool (Microsoft/VisualBasic/VisualJ/C#/TypeScript/F#, 
> Sun/Java, Google/Go/Dart, JetBrains/Kotlin, etc)

Microsoft/Q#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Sharp

;^)

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#148385

W dniu poniedziałek, 2 grudnia 2019 20:59:29 UTC+1 użytkownik Lynn McGuire napisał:
> "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
>     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> Lynn

i glimpsed a bit on that rust some time ago and i dont liek it (based on what i seen)

in meantime i more like kotlinm that seems to me a bit fun that it grow/evaluated so quickly toreplace java on android (that was lulz)

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#148390

Am Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2019 11:56:46 UTC+1 schrieb fir:
> W dniu poniedziałek, 2 grudnia 2019 20:59:29 UTC+1 użytkownik Lynn McGuire napisał:
> > "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
> >     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
> > 
> > I doubt it.
> > 
> > Lynn
> 
> i glimpsed a bit on that rust some time ago and i dont liek it (based on what i seen)
> 
> in meantime i more like kotlinm that seems to me a bit fun that it grow/evaluated so quickly toreplace java on android (that was lulz)

The sun is shining on my screen. I need a programming language with good visibility.

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#148391

On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 2:56:46 AM UTC-8, fir wrote:
> W dniu poniedziałek, 2 grudnia 2019 20:59:29 UTC+1 użytkownik Lynn McGuire napisał:
> > "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
> >     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
> > 
> > I doubt it.
> > 
> > Lynn
> 
> i glimpsed a bit on that rust some time ago and i dont liek it (based on what i seen)
> 
> in meantime i more like kotlinm that seems to me a bit fun that it grow/evaluated so quickly toreplace java on android (that was lulz)

I still use Java because a programming site that I use to keep my coding skills sharp needs Java to solve some of coding problems. So people might not have this issue. But for me I do since my coding skills will degrade over time if I spend too much time drinking beer while watching my neighbor have porn star sex with a guy other than her husband while her drapes are open.

Yes, I have video tapes of this.

Yes, I tried to share them on YouTube. But they got taken down right away.

No, I haven't tried posting them on pornhub yet.

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#148409

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

> "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
>    https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
>
> I doubt it.

Repeating a similar comment made in another posting, I propose
a rule of thumb for postings like this one:  unless a posting is
likely to generate a substantial fraction of responses that are
simultaneously of interest in both comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++,
it should be multi-posted rather than cross-posted (specifically
for c.l.c and c.l.c++).

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#148410

>> "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
>>     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
>> I doubt it.

> Repeating a similar comment made in another posting, I propose
> a rule of thumb for postings like this one:  unless a posting is
> likely to generate a substantial fraction of responses that are
> simultaneously of interest in both comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++,
> it should be multi-posted rather than cross-posted (specifically
> for c.l.c and c.l.c++).

The article is related to C as well as C++-programmers.
Multiposting is therefore stupid here.

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#148936

Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:

>>> "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
>>>     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
>>> I doubt it.
>>
>> Repeating a similar comment made in another posting, I propose
>> a rule of thumb for postings like this one:  unless a posting is
>> likely to generate a substantial fraction of responses that are
>> simultaneously of interest in both comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++,
>> it should be multi-posted rather than cross-posted (specifically
>> for c.l.c and c.l.c++).
>
> The article is related to C as well as C++-programmers.
> Multiposting is therefore stupid here.

I think you missed the point of my comment.

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#148414

Am Montag, 2. Dezember 2019 20:59:29 UTC+1 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
> "Microsoft Exploring Rust as the Solution for Safe Software"
>     https://www.infoq.com/news/2019/11/microsoft-exploring-rust-safety/
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> Lynn

It is called Project Verona. Its goal: iron out memory related bugs only in 
selected critical software elements. The vast major codebase itself reamins.

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