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OT: on places such as the USENET

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  OT: on places such as the USENET Meredith Montgomery <mmontgomery@levado.to> - 2022-01-30 09:21 -0300
    Re: OT: on places such as the USENET doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2022-01-30 13:51 +0000
      Re: OT: on places such as the USENET Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2022-02-05 15:00 +0300
    Re: OT: on places such as the USENET Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-01-30 16:26 +0100
      Re: OT: on places such as the USENET NOSPAM.Alex.Sardo@darkrealms.ca (Alex Sardo) - 2022-01-30 13:16 +0000
    Re: OT: on places such as the USENET Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2022-02-05 14:22 +0800

#164732 — OT: on places such as the USENET

It's amazing how much I can't see when I'm analysing the smallest
problems.  I only know this because of places such as the USENET.  I
post my big problems here and you guys show how small they are.

This leads to me wonder about the future of the USENET.  

These days there are privately-owned places on the web where technical
people share questions and answers.  They're not nearly well-populated
as the USENET.  This seems very clear to me.

As an optimistic note, I always conclude that smart people will always
build a good place for them.  But pessimistically I wonder if this is
happening right now.  I do not consider these privately-owned places on
the web to be a good place.  (Their format of question-and-answers, for
instance, is a lose.  Smart people don't want to be framed like that.
Not to mention the medium under the control of someone else.)  (I know
there are very smart people in these places.  I'm not failing to
recognize that.)

When I talk to very young people, I notice how they never heard of
things like the USENET or IRC.  

I'm sure you guys have discussed all of this before.  If not anything
else, at least this post should serve as a thank-you-note.  Thank you!

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#164737

In article <86v8y176t6.fsf@levado.to>,
Meredith Montgomery  <mmontgomery@levado.to> wrote:
>It's amazing how much I can't see when I'm analysing the smallest
>problems.  I only know this because of places such as the USENET.  I
>post my big problems here and you guys show how small they are.
>
>This leads to me wonder about the future of the USENET.  
>
>These days there are privately-owned places on the web where technical
>people share questions and answers.  They're not nearly well-populated
>as the USENET.  This seems very clear to me.
>
>As an optimistic note, I always conclude that smart people will always
>build a good place for them.  But pessimistically I wonder if this is
>happening right now.  I do not consider these privately-owned places on
>the web to be a good place.  (Their format of question-and-answers, for
>instance, is a lose.  Smart people don't want to be framed like that.
>Not to mention the medium under the control of someone else.)  (I know
>there are very smart people in these places.  I'm not failing to
>recognize that.)
>
>When I talk to very young people, I notice how they never heard of
>things like the USENET or IRC.  
>
>I'm sure you guys have discussed all of this before.  If not anything
>else, at least this post should serve as a thank-you-note.  Thank you!

Oi! You have to teach these young ones.

Just like teching young adults these days to drive standard drive.
-- 
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b  
Birthdate 29 Jan 1969 Redhill Surrey England  Beware https://mindspring.com

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#164791

Meredith Montgomery to The Doctor:

> > When I talk to very young people, I notice how
> > they never heard of things like the USENET or
> > IRC.
>
> Oi! You have to teach these young ones.
>
> Just like teching young adults these days to
> drive standard drive.

It might be a good idea -- make free and
decetralised commication media part of the basic
computer literacy, preferably with some political
education explainng why and how evil corporations
strangle this freedom.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

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#164739

On 1/30/2022 1:21 PM, Meredith Montgomery wrote:
> It's amazing how much I can't see when I'm analysing the smallest
> problems.  I only know this because of places such as the USENET.  I
> post my big problems here and you guys show how small they are.
> 
> This leads to me wonder about the future of the USENET.
> 
> These days there are privately-owned places on the web where technical
> people share questions and answers.  They're not nearly well-populated
> as the USENET.  This seems very clear to me.

I think this depends on the usenet group. This is fairly well behaving, 
others are simply dead.

> 
> As an optimistic note, I always conclude that smart people will always
> build a good place for them.  But pessimistically I wonder if this is
> happening right now.  I do not consider these privately-owned places on
> the web to be a good place.  (Their format of question-and-answers, for
> instance, is a lose.  Smart people don't want to be framed like that.
> Not to mention the medium under the control of someone else.)  (I know
> there are very smart people in these places.  I'm not failing to
> recognize that.)

This is a very interesting observation. In other words, the quality of a 
group is only as good as the quality of the participants.
And, on the other hand, a framework for the group may help keep order, 
but inevitably ends up limiting its contents.

> 
> When I talk to very young people, I notice how they never heard of
> things like the USENET or IRC.

This is what I find most concerning: oblivion is probably the first 
threat to usenet, and that's sad, because, as others have said, usenet 
is a bastion of free speech.
I first heard about it during my university days, quite a few decades 
ago. It was pretty popular at that time. Now, not even close.

About your reference to "young" people, I think that with the advent of 
global connection they have become a huge "market" (not only commercial, 
think of the value of the count of "followers")
Thus the proliferation of frameworks to count them in. The problem 
raises when they get used to acting within one.

This reminds me of a related point: a number of years ago I saw on an 
analysis on BBC about the effect of web search engines, particularly google.
The analysis focused on how this was (is) affecting journalism: writers 
are forced to write pieces that are easily indexable by search engines, 
and this invariably affects their prose. The price for ignoring that, 
and writing your own way, is the risk of being missed by such 
algorithms, and thus get penalized in your work.
But, in journalism (and not only) the form, shape is effectively 
essence, substance, so search algorithms are in fact affecting how ideas 
and opinions get spread.


> 
> I'm sure you guys have discussed all of this before.  If not anything
> else, at least this post should serve as a thank-you-note.  Thank you!

Really off topic, but interesting. Thank you.

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#164741

> From: noname@add.invalid
 
> On 1/30/2022 1:21 PM, Meredith Montgomery wrote:
>> It's amazing how much I can't see when I'm analysing the smallest
>> problems.  I only know this because of places such as the USENET.  I
>> post my big problems here and you guys show how small they are.
>>
>> This leads to me wonder about the future of the USENET.
>>
>> These days there are privately-owned places on the web where 
> technical
>> people share questions and answers.  They're not nearly 
> well-populated
>> as the USENET.  This seems very clear to me.
 
> I think this depends on the usenet group. This is fairly well 
> behaving,
> others are simply dead.
 
I have rejoined USENET recently since when I started in the 80s and one 
of my goals is to cleanp dead feeds together with my NC and HUB.
 
Lots of work ahead but it will be worth it. First thing is an API which 
I am developing (se API button at theoraclebbs.com).
 
If you are an AI/Neuralnet developer and want to help, feel free to 
rechout to me at 1:129/330.
 
  >> >> As an optimistic note, I always conclude that smart people 
  > will always
>> build a good place for them.  But pessimistically I wonder if this 
> is
>> happening right now.  I do not consider these privately-owned places 
> on
>> the web to be a good place.  (Their format of question-and-answers, 
> for
>> instance, is a lose.  Smart people don't want to be framed like 
> that.
>> Not to mention the medium under the control of someone else.)  (I 
> know
>> there are very smart people in these places.  I'm not failing to
>> recognize that.)
 
> This is a very interesting observation. In other words, the quality 
> of a
> group is only as good as the quality of the participants.
> And, on the other hand, a framework for the group may help keep 
> order,
> but inevitably ends up limiting its contents.
 
>>
>> When I talk to very young people, I notice how they never heard of
>> things like the USENET or IRC.
 
> This is what I find most concerning: oblivion is probably the first
> threat to usenet, and that's sad, because, as others have said, 
> usenet
> is a bastion of free speech.
> I first heard about it during my university days, quite a few decades
> ago. It was pretty popular at that time. Now, not even close.
 
> About your reference to "young" people, I think that with the advent 
> of
> global connection they have become a huge "market" (not only 
> commercial,
> think of the value of the count of "followers")
> Thus the proliferation of frameworks to count them in. The problem
> raises when they get used to acting within one.
 
> This reminds me of a related point: a number of years ago I saw on an
> analysis on BBC about the effect of web search engines, particularly
> google.
> The analysis focused on how this was (is) affecting journalism: 
> writers
> are forced to write pieces that are easily indexable by search 
> engines,
> and this invariably affects their prose. The price for ignoring that,
> and writing your own way, is the risk of being missed by such
> algorithms, and thus get penalized in your work.
> But, in journalism (and not only) the form, shape is effectively
> essence, substance, so search algorithms are in fact affecting how 
> ideas
> and opinions get spread.
 
 
>>
>> I'm sure you guys have discussed all of this before.  If not 
> anything
>> else, at least this post should serve as a thank-you-note.  Thank 
> you!
 
> Really off topic, but interesting. Thank you.
 
> --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
> * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

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#164789

Meredith Montgomery <mmontgomery@levado.to> writes:

> When I talk to very young people, I notice how they never heard of
> things like the USENET or IRC.  

IRC at least gets a fair amount of exposure on the media.  For example,
there was quite a lot of reporting on the Freenode takeover last year,
and most people have seen it in the movies once or twice.

Sadly, the same can't be said for the Usenet.  If someone knows about it
today, he most likely thinks it's for piracy.

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