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Groups > comp.lang.c > #149732

Re: Warnings/Debugger

From Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Warnings/Debugger
Date 2020-02-04 13:18 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <r1ccif$igf$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <r19d18$vv9$1@dont-email.me> <dc1e189d-226d-4bb3-9216-478ab807a1f4@googlegroups.com> <r1btc1$a59$1@dont-email.me>

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Mehdi Amini wrote:
> On 2/3/20 11:11 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> On Monday, 3 February 2020 17:08:33 UTC+2, Mehdi Amini Valashani son 
>> of Bahram  wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>> 2. Is it so that I should be using a debugger , as otherwise others may
>>> not help me ?
>>
>> The tools are usually made by rather good programmers and save lot of
>> time. If you refuse to use tools then others consider you caveman and
>> do not want to cooperate with you. It is essential in our industry to
>> cooperate with others, especially when you are not very skilled. How
>> else you hope to learn the finest tricks of that trade?
>>
> 
> I am considered a caveman , no matter what.

If you want to last in the business, and have a long
career, you cannot afford to take any comments personally.

I've tried to use debuggers that were just awful.
I did enjoy using one which was part of an IDE.

You might have to try a few of these, before you
find one that makes you productive.

In a FOSS environment, where the IDE could open library
source modules while you single-step your code, there should
be a real benefit from debugging that way. For a really
tiny project (60 line C program), it's less clear
how much of an advantage it gives you.

*******

I've found managers don't care how the work gets done,
as long as you deliver results on time. If this week
you use a debugger, and next week you use static code
analysis, they don't care. But if you're late delivering
something, the quality is poor, you don't work well with
others, they will provide feedback about how you
can improve your skills. Even if it means "coursework".

I find it passing strange, that as a hardware engineer at work,
*I* was the one promoting the usage of debuggers and profilers.
I ran into quite a few "scowls" from co-workers when
suggesting they try new things.

One incident was hilarious. I told one of our developers,
he should try out the profiler *his friend* wrote. He just
scowled. I left his cubicle. Ten minutes later, he comes
running over to my cubicle all excited. "I found something!".
He'd taken my advice and tried running the profiler on his
current project. There was a hot spot. 25% of execution time
was in three lines of code. *The code was a copy/paste error*.
The code did not even belong in the module and was a mistake.
Well, sure, the code review would have found that, but by
passing the profiler over it, he was spared the
embarrassment of someone finding that before he did.

I would say overall, that I've seen more bad debuggers
than good ones. But don't give up, as eventually you'll
get to try a good one.

The people in this group, have God-like static code
analysis skills. While it's fun to pretend you
belong to this illustrious group, there will be
times when leaning on a crutch, helps you meet
your managers deliverables. You probably can't afford
to copy/paste your entire project into a USENET post,
and let the code analysts at it. And then using the
debugger might be the next best thing, to figuring
out the problem a bit quicker.

    Paul

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Thread

Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 18:38 +0330
  Re: Warnings/Debugger Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-03 17:44 +0000
    Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 17:09 +0330
      Re: Warnings/Debugger Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 01:45 +0000
        Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 17:03 +0330
          Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 05:51 -0800
            Re: Warnings/Debugger Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 06:57 -0800
              Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 08:15 -0800
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 09:01 -0800
          Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-06 21:47 -0500
            Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-07 18:11 +0330
              Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-07 07:35 -0800
              Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-08 00:19 -0500
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-10 15:49 +0330
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-10 16:26 +0000
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-11 17:56 +0330
                Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-11 06:28 -0800
                Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-11 22:55 -0500
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-12 07:05 +0000
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-18 08:36 -0800
                Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-11 08:24 -0800
                Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-12 16:11 +0330
                Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-12 05:39 -0800
          Re: Warnings/Debugger Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-02-07 16:14 +1300
  Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 12:56 -0500
    Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 17:24 +0330
      Re: Warnings/Debugger James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-04 10:03 -0500
  Re: Warnings/Debugger Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-02-03 11:41 -0800
    Re: Warnings/Debugger Mehdi Amini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 17:29 +0330
      Re: Warnings/Debugger Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-02-04 13:18 -0500
        Re: Warnings/Debugger David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-04 21:29 +0100
        Re: Warnings/Debugger Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-05 10:05 +0000
          Re: Warnings/Debugger chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-05 06:05 -0800
          Re: Warnings/Debugger Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-05 08:39 -0800
            Re: Warnings/Debugger Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 16:49 +0000
  Re: Warnings/Debugger Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2020-02-18 16:41 +0000

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