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Groups > comp.lang.c > #108824

Re: What is C?

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: What is C?
Date 2017-04-30 17:00 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lntw55igxy.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink)
References <830c4de1-bf1c-4526-8adb-b61f06a9f3c8@googlegroups.com> <lnwpa2jv87.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <5e8f29de-6f41-41ce-a4bf-4ed255c1eb9d@googlegroups.com> <lno9vdk9c6.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <63e54eb5-d907-4211-9d89-e17d0117792d@googlegroups.com>

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David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> I'm taking a Chomskian point-of-view toward the language. I
> don't usually run with the Chomskians but this is one place
> I agree with them. 
>
> I don't take the standard as a sacred text.

Neither does anyone else.  It's merely the document that defines
the C language.

>                                             Looking at my
> copy of the 1990 standard - in section 1 I read that the
> standard specifies:
>     the representation of C programs
>     the syntax and constraints of the C language
>     the semantic rules for interpreting C programs
>     the representation of input data to be processed by C
>         programs
>     the representation of output data produced by C programs
>     the restrictions and limits imposed by a conforming
>         implementation of C

Why are you ignoring the third point, "the semantic rules for
interpreting C programs"?

> As nearly as I can tell that says nothing about compilers -
> meaning devices that make the semantic rules actually do
> anything.

It defines the phases of translation.  I'm not sure whether it uses the
word "compiler" or not.

>           So far as I know every serious compiler does not
> produce actual machine code as output from the parser.

Why does that matter?  The existence of a parser as a component of the
compiler is an irrelevant implementation detail.

> I call whatever follows the parser output the back-end.
> Just as I call the pre-processor the front end. Since the
> standard does not discuss compiler structure this is a
> legitimate thing to do. 

It's not legitimate when it leads you to define "the C language"
in a way that ignores most of what the C language actually is.

If you want to talk about the C syntax, or the C grammar, feel free to
do so.  Please don't pretend that that's all there is to the language.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 09:10 -0700
  Re: What is C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 18:26 +0200
    Re: What is C? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 12:31 -0700
      Re: What is C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 23:02 +0200
  Re: What is C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-29 18:07 +0100
    Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:44 -0700
      Re: What is C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-29 21:00 +0100
  Re: What is C? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 16:45 -0700
  Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-29 22:54 -0700
    Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 11:48 -0700
      Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 12:02 -0700
        Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 15:24 -0700
          Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 17:00 -0700
            Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-30 18:00 -0700
            Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 09:41 -0700
              Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:25 -0500
                Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-01 10:46 -0700
                Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 13:04 -0500
                Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-02 04:11 -0700
                Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-03 00:48 -0500
                Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-03 09:37 -0700
                Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-05 00:45 -0500
                Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-05 10:51 -0700
                Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-05 01:32 -0700
                Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 23:07 -0500
      Re: What is C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 12:03 -0700
        Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 15:27 -0700
          Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 16:57 -0700
  Re: What is C? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 10:13 -0700
    Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 10:26 -0700
      Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:50 -0500
      Re: What is C? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:34 -0700
  Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-02 03:39 -0700
    Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 12:05 -0700

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