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Groups > comp.lang.c > #108792
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: What is C? |
| Date | 2017-04-30 12:02 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lno9vdk9c6.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | <830c4de1-bf1c-4526-8adb-b61f06a9f3c8@googlegroups.com> <lnwpa2jv87.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <5e8f29de-6f41-41ce-a4bf-4ed255c1eb9d@googlegroups.com> |
David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> writes:
> On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 10:55:06 PM UTC-7, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> writes:
>> > I have taken a position as to what "C" means that is not
>> > looked on favorably by several regulars on comp.lang.c.
>> > But I think I have never been clear exactly what I meant
>> > (I was probably unclear myself). I think now that I can
>> > say exactly what I think.
>> >
>> > I would say that the C language is the language defined by
>> > the phrase structure grammar. I usually use the grammar
>> > from C89 but the later standards, so far a I know, haven't
>> > changed it much. The grammar in K&R 78 is too incomplete
>> > to use.
>> >
>> > The C so defined is incomplete as a programming tool. These
>> > days there is both pre and post processing. But - as I see
>> > the situation - neither are intrinsic parts of C.
>>
>> I'd say that the syntax is just one part of the language, and not the
>> the most important part. In a sense it distinguishes between what is
>> and is not a C program, but it says nothing about what any C code
>> *means*.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Exactly so. The C language does not say anything about what it
> means. The meaning is mapped into the language by the front and
> back ends.
You seem to be using the word "language" in a very odd sense.
The C language certainly does define the meaning of C code (leaving it
undefined in some cases). That definition is mostly in section 6 of the
ISO C standard.
The grammar defines the syntax of the language. That syntax is no more
and no less part of "the C language" than the semantics.
It might be reasonable to exclude section 7, which specifies the
library, from the phrase "the C language", but surely everthing in
section 6 is part of "the C language".
> For example, the C language tells us nothing about what '+'
> means. It sends to the back end a message that two values
> (a value is assumed to be a type-and-address pair) are
> operated on by an operator named '+' to produce another
> value.
No, the C language tells us that "The result of the binary +
operator is the sum of the operands" (C11 6.5.6p5).
What is this "back end" you're talking about? There is no mention
of it in the standard that defines the language.
What you're describing is the C syntax, not the C language.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 09:10 -0700
Re: What is C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 18:26 +0200
Re: What is C? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 12:31 -0700
Re: What is C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 23:02 +0200
Re: What is C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-29 18:07 +0100
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:44 -0700
Re: What is C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-29 21:00 +0100
Re: What is C? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 16:45 -0700
Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-29 22:54 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 11:48 -0700
Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 12:02 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 15:24 -0700
Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 17:00 -0700
Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-30 18:00 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 09:41 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:25 -0500
Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-01 10:46 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 13:04 -0500
Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-02 04:11 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-03 00:48 -0500
Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-03 09:37 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-05 00:45 -0500
Re: What is C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-05 10:51 -0700
Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-05 01:32 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 23:07 -0500
Re: What is C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 12:03 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 15:27 -0700
Re: What is C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-30 16:57 -0700
Re: What is C? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 10:13 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 10:26 -0700
Re: What is C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:50 -0500
Re: What is C? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:34 -0700
Re: What is C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-02 03:39 -0700
Re: What is C? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 12:05 -0700
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