Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+)

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+)
Date	2017-06-19 17:35 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<8760fsdjgf.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <oi4p0m$8on$1@dont-email.me> <87h8zd4d9n.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <oi63gm$odt$1@dont-email.me> <87zid43n05.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <oi7k7h$eu8$1@dont-email.me>

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Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

> On 19/06/17 00:16, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 18/06/17 14:49, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/06/17 02:50, Christopher wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwx0lG_v1tcONExSejZWMGJaMUU/view?usp=sharing>
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Hot Tip" is wrong. The stdio.h header contains no functions at
>>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>> How do you know that stdio.h contains no functions at all?
>>>
>> <snip>
>>> If we're talking about the standard stdio.h it has to work in the
>>> following situation:
<snip example>
>> What about static inline functions?
>
> Here is the text I was complaining about: "All the standard functions
> for file input/output are contained in the stdio.h header file." Note
> the word "all".

And here is the text I was complaining about: "The stdio.h header
contains no functions at all".  Note the phrase "no functions at all".

> Sticking just to file I/O rather than file opening, closing,
> etc... are you seriously suggesting that the author is relying on the
> user having a system in which fprintf, fscanf, printf, scanf, sprintf,
> sscanf, vfprintf, vfscanf, vprintf, vscanf, fgetc, fgets, fputc,
> fputs, getc, getchar, putc, putchar, puts, fread, and fwrite (and any
> I forgot) are *all* static inline functions?

I find it hard to believe that you really though I was saying that but,
no, I am not suggesting that.  I am only suggesting that it's a stretch
to say that it contains no functions at all.

<snip>
>> Sure.  The /reason/ is not so much the point as that we are in peril of
>> not having any book to recommend.
>
> K&R 2's accurate_information / page_count is extraordinarily high. Its
> error_count / page_count is extraordinarily low. Why wouldn't we
> recommend it?

I hold it up as an ideal for experienced programmers -- I often long for
"the K&R of X" where X is a language I'd like to learn, but there is
quite a lot of evidence that beginners get lost in it.  I'm not entirely
sure why, but one thing I have come to accept is that I am no measure of
what the average student wants from a book!

>> <snip>
>>> You have raised less than a dozen issues with K&R, scattered through
>>> the whole book. The points I raised regarding "C Programming in Easy
>>> Steps" all occurred on just two pages, which suggests a significantly
>>> greater error density.
>>
>> Oh sure.  The bottom line is what should someone starting out read if
>> they want to learn C?
>
> Maybe King, or Deitel & Deitel. And maybe K&R 2. It would have been
> good to be able to extend the list to include this Beck chap, but on
> current showing I can't see any way that I would recommend his work.

Hmm... that's more than 140 pounds worth of books.  I suspect there's a
opening for an inexpensive C programming book.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

Thread

What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Christopher <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-17 23:59 -0100
  Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-17 17:51 -0700
    Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Christopher <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-18 00:00 -0100
      Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-17 21:32 -0400
        Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Christopher <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-18 00:50 -0100
          Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 03:40 +0100
            Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-06-18 11:48 +0200
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 13:13 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 16:20 +0100
            Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-18 14:49 +0100
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 15:46 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 00:16 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-19 05:37 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 09:25 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 17:35 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-19 18:19 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 20:51 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-19 21:16 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:58 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 17:43 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:16 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 11:53 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-20 22:45 -0700
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2017-06-18 18:17 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 18:20 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 18:27 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-06-20 11:11 +0200
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 10:27 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-20 10:54 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-06-20 12:25 +0200
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-20 12:34 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-20 05:37 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-20 14:11 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 14:35 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 17:30 +0000
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 21:21 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 21:23 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 21:47 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-06-18 17:01 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 10:41 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 21:50 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 13:52 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-06-20 11:16 +0200
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-26 15:54 +0000
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-06-18 17:13 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-06-18 17:17 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 15:14 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-06-18 18:24 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:11 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 23:01 +0100
          Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-17 19:55 -0700
            Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Christopher <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-18 02:10 -0100
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 04:15 +0100
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 08:31 +0000
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2017-06-18 18:28 +0100
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 11:25 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 19:13 +0000
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 14:30 -0700
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-18 23:04 +0100
              Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 10:43 +0200
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-18 10:33 -0400
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 01:27 +0200
                Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-18 21:16 -0400
      Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-18 13:45 +1200
      Re: What is the difference between (r+ and w+) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-17 19:05 -0700

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