Re: Coding style for small if statements

Path	csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Coding style for small if statements
Date	Sat, 22 Feb 2020 01:19:14 -0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Lines	48
Message-ID	<86v9nzc73h.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	<20200131234613.59047e037939ceb549b8e6d6@gmail.com> <65de5d07-838a-4a5f-bd70-b8a263fc61d6@googlegroups.com> <87imkkobdm.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <726b2209-ca7e-40fe-b429-fbc062f5b6bd@googlegroups.com> <874kw3nq6s.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <r1je7h$5fl$1@dont-email.me> <87k14ym0lg.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <r1mn3m$dtk$1@dont-email.me> <875zggms21.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <r1osb3$4a5$1@dont-email.me> <87zhdrlqns.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <intent-20200209165109@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <87lfpblaxo.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <r1q5fo$ql1$1@dont-email.me> <87y2tbjksq.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Mime-Version	1.0
Content-Type	text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Injection-Info	reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a1e79922b2c02e9149a52088916eaff2"; logging-data="16325"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/jWycJxvI/bm/0vr3mFJG6DHJWb3rqCqE="
User-Agent	Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.4 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock	sha1:+tDQB9O4cF4ZnMkCDSQHh1AiAMY= sha1:ipFuwNddOhmsPz4G5BfaSDgXcxw=
Xref	csiph.com comp.lang.c:150140

Show key headers only | View raw

Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:

>> [...]
>
> Yes, I know that making that sort of inference was being
> suggested.  I've not found it useful.  I can't think what I'd do
> with that information.  How does it help to infer (unreliably)
> that the author wrote correct code but intended to write incorrect
> code, or conversely, that they intended to write incorrect code
> but happened to get it right?  What matters is what was written.
> [...]

I have found this conversation interesting but confusing.  I have a
few comments I would like to share, in reaction to the discussion
generally, and I guess here is as good a place as any.

When I read code I want to know more than just what is being done.
I look for what might be called a narrative, to understand the
reasoning of what's going on, in addition to the nuts and bolts of
how it gets done.  Ideally the code will convey a narrative closely
along the lines of what the author was thinking.  However I would
not call this intent necessarily.  Whether I discover or somehow
reconstruct the author's thoughts, or construct anew a narrative
independent of those thoughts, having a narrative is something
important for my reading and understanding.

Invariants are an essential tool, of course.  OTOH they aren't
always present in my thinking when I am writing, or reading,
code.  I'm not sure even what all the tools are that I use to
produce and confirm code that is correct.  Testing is one of
those tools, naturally.  Another tool is what I might call
"signposts", which are logical statements known or believed or
shown to be true, usually at a particular point of execution.
These aren't the same as invariants because they might, for
example, apply down only one branch of an if/else.  Still they
can help simplify the reasoning process.  A key point is that I
use different reasoning modes at different times, and never all
at once, but normally at most one or two at a time.  Part of why
it is hard to describe or discuss them is because I'm not always
conscious of what mental tools I'm using at any given time, let
alone over all times.

So fwiw there are some of my thoughts.  Please note that I am not
suggesting that tools I find useful are ones that others should
use.  Part of the problem with topics like this is they turn from
discussion into argument, with more emphasis on convincing than
on simply stating and explaining.  I would rather avoid the
convincing/arguing mode if possible.

Thread

Coding style for small if statements Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-01-31 23:46 +0300
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-01-31 23:54 +0300
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2020-01-31 19:13 -0600
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 07:52 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-02-01 00:06 +0300
    Re: Coding style for small if statements mathog <dmathog@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 10:20 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2020-01-31 16:28 -0500
  Re: Coding style for small if statements donalhambra@gmail.com - 2020-02-01 04:55 -0800
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-01 17:16 +0000
      Re: Coding style for small if statements luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-02-02 11:03 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-03 02:20 +0000
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 05:17 +0100
        Re: Coding style for small if statements chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 04:07 -0800
          Re: Coding style for small if statements luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 12:59 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 20:54 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2020-02-01 16:44 +0000
  Re: Coding style for small if statements already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-02-02 04:40 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-02 15:47 +0100
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-03 23:56 +0000
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 05:34 -0800
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-16 16:17 +0000
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 08:28 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2020-02-03 21:52 -0800
    Re: Coding style for small if statements skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2020-02-03 22:07 -0800
      Re: Coding style for small if statements skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2020-02-03 22:22 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2020-02-03 22:25 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 02:35 +0000
          Re: Coding style for small if statements James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-04 20:20 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-05 01:04 -0500
            Re: Coding style for small if statements James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-05 01:05 -0500
  Re: Coding style for small if statements John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2020-02-05 12:50 -0800
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 23:36 +0000
      Re: Coding style for small if statements John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 15:01 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-06 15:43 -0800
          Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-07 11:02 +0100
            Re: Coding style for small if statements scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-07 15:24 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-07 23:03 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-07 23:59 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-08 00:16 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-08 02:26 +0000
          Re: Coding style for small if statements Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2020-02-08 17:07 -0600
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-08 23:17 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2020-02-08 18:32 -0600
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-09 09:32 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 07:10 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-07 01:26 +0000
          Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-07 11:30 +0100
            Re: Coding style for small if statements chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-07 05:36 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-07 23:36 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-08 17:20 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 02:07 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-09 13:01 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-09 13:26 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 15:53 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-09 17:03 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 15:35 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-09 18:07 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 21:17 +0000
                Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-11 07:19 +0000
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-02-10 23:40 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-12 12:24 +0000
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-11 11:30 +0000
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-02-11 09:41 -0700
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-12 08:12 -0500
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-14 21:18 +0000
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 00:01 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-22 05:22 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:57 -0700
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:28 -0700
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) jadill33@gmail.com - 2020-02-12 07:56 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-02-12 08:57 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-14 21:31 +0000
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) jadill33@gmail.com - 2020-02-14 14:10 -0800
                Re: Pre- and post- conditions (was Re: Coding style for small if statements) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-15 03:06 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-09 19:45 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 21:50 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-09 22:51 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-10 01:39 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-10 09:55 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-10 11:07 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-10 12:48 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-10 13:13 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-10 15:15 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-10 15:46 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-09 18:18 -0800
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-10 09:12 +0100
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-10 14:51 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-10 16:19 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-09 21:00 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 21:29 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-02-09 17:14 -0800
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-09 21:15 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-09 18:43 -0500
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-10 01:25 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 01:19 -0800
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 05:43 -0800
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-16 14:01 +0000
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 08:34 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2020-02-07 15:25 +0100
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-07 07:22 -0800
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2020-02-14 15:21 +0300
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-14 13:35 +0000
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2020-02-14 14:43 +0100
          Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-15 12:08 +0100
          Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-20 10:10 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-20 19:58 +0100
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 05:55 -0800
    Re: Coding style for small if statements scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-07 15:26 +0000
      Re: Coding style for small if statements luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-02-07 17:47 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements jadill33@gmail.com - 2020-02-10 07:09 -0800
      Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 06:30 -0800
        Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-16 16:14 +0100
          Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-16 16:40 +0000
            Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-16 17:48 +0100
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-02-16 17:14 -0600
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-03-30 00:27 -0700
        Re: Coding style for small if statements Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-02-16 18:39 +0000
          Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-16 20:37 +0000
            Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-17 09:09 +0100
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-02-17 05:32 -0800
              Re: Coding style for small if statements scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-17 18:07 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-17 23:48 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-17 20:40 -0500
          Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-23 10:14 -0800
            Re: Coding style for small if statements Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2020-02-23 20:16 +0000
              Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-03-29 18:56 -0700
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-03-30 06:07 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-03-30 06:45 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-30 10:50 +0200
                Re: Coding style for small if statements gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-03-30 13:04 +0000
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-03-30 06:17 -0700
                Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 14:09 -0700
    Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-18 02:09 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2020-02-10 01:47 +0000
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-12 17:54 +0100
  Re: Coding style for small if statements Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-20 07:18 -0800
  Re: Coding style for small if statements fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-02-29 03:30 -0800

csiph-web