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Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer

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Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>
>> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> writes:
>>> <cut>
>>>
>>>> Only when applied to variably types, sizeof is in runtime.
>>>>
>>>>   int n = 10;
>>>>
>>>>   int(*buf)[n] = malloc(sizeof(int) * n);
>>>
>>> Why would you not write
>>>
>>>    int (*buf)[n] = malloc(sizof *buf);
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>> Perhaps because, technically speaking, the right-hand side here
>> has undefined behavior?
>
> Yes, it has.  That has always puzzled me.  Do you think that this usage
> was specifically being ruled out, or is it a casualty of having made an
> overly simple decision[1]?

I have now looked into this further and can offer a more informed
answer.  More below.

> This whole areas makes me uneasy.  I've never been able to find a
> reasonable example where an expression operand of sizeof needs to be
> evaluated[2] (as the standard mandates) but most compilers evaluate f in
>
>   sizeof (int[f()])
>
> despite the standard not explaining what it means to evaluate a type
> (though its not hard to guess what is intended).  Do the rules make
> sense to you?  [I note your comment about _Generic_ but taking
> it out because it doesn't bear on what I have to say.]

The rules now make sense to me.  The authors wanted to be sure (or
so I believe, in case that needs saying) that they didn't miss any
corner cases, and so used general wording.  They did think about
needless evaluation in 'sizeof' operands, and the Standard does
have a provision which talks about that;  in fact that provision
evolved while C99 was being written.  (If anyone cares they might
want to compare n869 to later versions of the C99 standard.)

Now, I hear you ask, _what_ corner cases?  Here is one, taken from
my recent reponse to Keith Thompson:

    int foo = sizeof *(int (*)[ ident( 1 ) ]){ &something };

This declaration is legal C99, provided of course there are
suitable declarations for the identifiers 'something' and 'ident'
in scope.  The operand is an expression, not a type name, although
of course the expression does have a type name within it.  The
operand expression needs to be evaluated, at least in part, in
order to determine the result of the sizeof operator.  Rather than
concoct some carefully chosen language that does some sort of
partial evalution for just those subexpressions that are needed
to produce the result, the authors chose the simple rule that
any VLA operand argument is evaluated.  That decision has some
unfortunate consequences for undefined behavior, but in the 1990s
there wasn't as much hysteria regarding undefined behavior as
there is now.

So for better or worse there is my somewhat-more-informed current
view of the matter.

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sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer "V.Subramanian, India" <subramanian100in@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-28 05:20 -0800
  Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-28 05:37 -0800
    Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-11-28 05:59 -0800
      Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-28 15:51 +0100
        Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-28 07:27 -0800
          Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Herbert Rosenau <nospam@hrosenau.de> - 2019-11-28 17:28 +0100
            Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-28 08:51 -0800
              Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-28 17:36 +0000
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 16:37 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-29 01:27 +0000
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 17:47 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-28 21:16 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-29 00:38 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-29 09:03 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-29 13:15 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-29 13:38 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-29 07:09 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-29 06:10 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-29 11:12 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-01 09:32 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-29 07:39 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-29 22:00 +0000
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-29 22:40 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-30 11:19 +0000
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-30 09:01 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-01 10:28 -0800
              Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-28 12:49 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-28 11:26 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-28 17:19 -0500
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 17:26 -0800
                Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-28 22:34 +0000
          Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-28 17:34 +0000
      You gotta wonder why people say things like this! (Was: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-11-28 17:19 +0000
    Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-28 14:55 -0800
      Re: sizeof object got by dereferencing uniniitalized pointer "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-30 15:28 -0800

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