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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86221 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500 |
| Last post | 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 92 — 19 participants |
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"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-09 19:03 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 18:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-10 17:04 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:24 +0200
C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-24 15:54 +0000
Re: C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 18:07 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 11:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 09:44 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 13:42 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 15:44 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 17:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 16:17 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 12:41 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 06:10 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 00:27 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 09:18 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 09:42 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 12:05 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 12:12 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:31 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-12 15:58 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 18:48 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 20:32 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:27 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-13 22:33 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 06:04 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:38 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:21 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-15 12:15 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 06:02 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 10:37 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 11:05 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 13:18 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 16:00 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 15:16 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:13 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:45 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 08:33 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 10:41 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 13:48 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 15:22 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 13:10 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:51 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-19 12:27 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 11:19 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 06:56 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 14:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 17:04 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-16 08:24 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 09:00 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 00:54 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-15 05:31 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 10:19 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 12:41 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 09:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-16 20:16 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 16:55 -0500
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 22:21 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-17 14:52 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:06 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:34 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:11 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 10:14 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:12 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:58 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-13 06:47 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 05:56 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-14 09:37 +0000
boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 09:51 -0700
Re: boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-11 16:26 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:35 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-12 19:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:24 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-10 12:56 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 15:53 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 07:07 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 16:17 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-11 13:50 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 05:53 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-12 05:47 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-09-11 00:01 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 16:26 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000
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| From | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500 |
| Subject | "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" |
| Message-ID | <tffub4$1s3f$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement that he has a book on the subject is interesting." "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. The text contains requests for comments." I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. Lynn
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-09 19:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <u6MSK.400427$iiS8.300624@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #86221 |
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes: >"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" > >https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html > >"Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >that he has a book on the subject is interesting." You know what they say about assumption. He hasn't had much to do with the compiler for a couple of decades now.
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-10 18:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfid8u$1guo1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86221 |
Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: > "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" > > https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html > > "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or > dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement > that he has a book on the subject is interesting." > > "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, > Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to > do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. > The text contains requests for comments." > > I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. > > Lynn C is a good language to learn programming but actually not to solve real tasks.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-10 17:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <as3TK.92007$elEa.12647@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #86233 |
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes: >Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >> >> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html >> >> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >> >> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >> The text contains requests for comments." >> >> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >> >> Lynn > >C is a good language to learn programming >but actually not to solve real tasks. > I think you have that backwards. Really.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfk69d$1vk2$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86236 |
On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 17:04:06 GMT scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes: >>Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >>> >>> >https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-re >ference.html >>> >>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >>> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >>> >>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >>> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >>> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >>> The text contains requests for comments." >>> >>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >>> >>> Lynn >> >>C is a good language to learn programming >>but actually not to solve real tasks. >> > >I think you have that backwards. Really. Story of his/her/its life.
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| From | Manfred <noname@add.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-24 16:24 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tgn3v7$1ui4$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86236 |
On 9/10/2022 7:04 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes: >> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >>> >>> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html >>> >>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >>> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >>> >>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >>> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >>> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >>> The text contains requests for comments." >>> >>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >>> >>> Lynn >> >> C is a good language to learn programming >> but actually not to solve real tasks. >> > > I think you have that backwards. Really. Definitely.
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| From | gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-24 15:54 +0000 |
| Subject | C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") |
| Message-ID | <tgn97b$1tfks$1@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #86555 |
In article <tgn3v7$1ui4$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Manfred <noname@add.invalid> wrote: ... >>> C is a good language to learn programming >>> but actually not to solve real tasks. >>> >> >> I think you have that backwards. Really. > >Definitely. Normally, one would assume that the first text quoted above was just a typo or a cut-and-paste error or something like that. But you should note who wrote it. Bonita is an unabashed C++ promoter and C basher (and general, all around, lunatic). It was intended as written. -- "The party of Lincoln has become the party of John Wilkes Booth." - Carlos Alazraqui -
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-24 18:07 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") |
| Message-ID | <tgna01$30v8d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86562 |
Am 24.09.2022 um 17:54 schrieb Kenny McCormack: > In article <tgn3v7$1ui4$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Manfred <noname@add.invalid> wrote: > ... >>>> C is a good language to learn programming >>>> but actually not to solve real tasks. >>>> >>> >>> I think you have that backwards. Really. >> >> Definitely. > > Normally, one would assume that the first text quoted above was just a typo > or a cut-and-paste error or something like that. > > But you should note who wrote it. Bonita is an unabashed C++ promoter and C > basher (and general, all around, lunatic). It was intended as written. C is an outdated language. It's much likely to make mistakes with C than with C++ or Rust f.e. and you have a magnitude more work to do the same thing.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfk690$1vj6$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86233 |
On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:16:45 +0200 Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >> >> >https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-re >ference.html >> >> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >> >> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >> The text contains requests for comments." >> >> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >> >> Lynn > >C is a good language to learn programming >but actually not to solve real tasks. Real tasks such as most OS kernels and all the GNU command line utilities?
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 11:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfk90g$1sbl3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86250 |
Am 11.09.2022 um 10:29 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:16:45 +0200 > Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >>> >>> >> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-re >> ference.html >>> >>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >>> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >>> >>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >>> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >>> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >>> The text contains requests for comments." >>> >>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >>> >>> Lynn >> >> C is a good language to learn programming >> but actually not to solve real tasks. > > Real tasks such as most OS kernels and all the GNU command line utilities? That's a matter of the writer's mindset and tradition and not of necessities.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 09:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfkalm$1mt8$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86252 |
On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:16:14 +0200 Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >Am 11.09.2022 um 10:29 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:16:45 +0200 >> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >>>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >>>> >>>> >>> >https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-re > >>> ference.html >>>> >>>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >>>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >>>> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >>>> >>>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >>>> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >>>> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >>>> The text contains requests for comments." >>>> >>>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >>>> >>>> Lynn >>> >>> C is a good language to learn programming >>> but actually not to solve real tasks. >> >> Real tasks such as most OS kernels and all the GNU command line utilities? > >That's a matter of the writer's mindset and tradition and >not of necessities. The necessity is for a language that can have embedded assembler, is very efficient to compile and once compiled and is explicit. Because of this C++'s hidden conversions, exceptions and most of the STL can be ruled out which doesn't leave much left thats an advantage over C.
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 13:42 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfkhid$1t2tl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86253 |
Am 11.09.2022 um 11:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > The necessity is for a language that can have embedded assembler, is very > efficient to compile and once compiled and is explicit. Because of this > C++'s hidden conversions, exceptions and most of the STL can be ruled > out which doesn't leave much left thats an advantage over C. That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. I wouldn't say that everything of the STL could be used inside the kernel, but it would be possible to write adaptions, f.e. to use special allocators for different types of allocations. Exceptions wouldn't be a problem inside the kernel, although they wouldn't make sense in any place.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 15:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfkvo9$km1$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86254 |
On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 13:42:20 +0200 Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >Am 11.09.2022 um 11:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > >> The necessity is for a language that can have embedded assembler, is very >> efficient to compile and once compiled and is explicit. Because of this >> C++'s hidden conversions, exceptions and most of the STL can be ruled >> out which doesn't leave much left thats an advantage over C. > >That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY what the code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. There is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime to hold your hand. >I wouldn't say that everything of the STL could be used inside >the kernel, but it would be possible to write adaptions, f.e. >to use special allocators for different types of allocations. You could in theory do a lot of things. Whether the time and effort and extra bloat would be worth it is another matter. Also the STL throws exceptions and does hidden conversions. >Exceptions wouldn't be a problem inside the kernel, although >they wouldn't make sense in any place. Oh yes they would. The kernel already has its own type of exceptions and has to deal with low level interrupts. The last thing the code needs is C++ exceptions where something gets thrown and the program counter ends up god knows where because someone forgot to do a catch 5 levels up.
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 17:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfl0cr$1vt01$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86258 |
Am 11.09.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. > Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY what the > code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. There > is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime to hold > your hand. If you know C++ it's easy to understand what's happening behind the scenes. Your problem is that you don't understand the language. > You could in theory do a lot of things. Whether the time and effort and extra > bloat would be worth it is another matter. Also the STL throws exceptions and > does hidden conversions. There's nothing boatish with STL. STL does things you'd otherwise do manually. > Oh yes they would. The kernel already has its own type of exceptions and > has to deal with low level interrupts. ... I don't have interrupts in mind when I talk about exceptions. And in interrupts you won't allocate resources so it's not necessary to throw excpetions within them. > The last thing the code needs is C++ exceptions where something gets > thrown and the program counter ends up god knows where because someone > forgot to do a catch 5 levels up. Exceptions need some documentation, but thats easier than manual return code handling.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 16:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfl1n5$1hqa$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86262 |
On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 17:55:22 +0200 Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >Am 11.09.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > >>> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >>> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >>> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. > >> Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY what the > >> code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. There >> is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime to hold >> your hand. > >If you know C++ it's easy to understand what's happening behind the >scenes. Your problem is that you don't understand the language. And you don't understand low level programming. But we knew that already.
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 18:22 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfl1v9$2028l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86264 |
Am 11.09.2022 um 18:17 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > And you don't understand low level programming. But we knew that already. I understand low level programming very good and with every abstraction step I do I understand what's going on at the lowest level behind what I do.
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 12:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <tfldkq$2143b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86262 |
On 9/11/2022 8:55 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: > Am 11.09.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: > >>> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >>> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >>> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. > >> Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY >> what the >> code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. >> There >> is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime >> to hold >> your hand. > > If you know C++ it's easy to understand what's happening behind the > scenes. Your problem is that you don't understand the language. [...] Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, but, there are differences behind different STL implementations, no?
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-12 06:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfmbed$2689n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86270 |
Am 11.09.2022 um 21:41 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson: > On 9/11/2022 8:55 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >> Am 11.09.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >> >>>> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >>>> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >>>> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. >> >>> Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY >>> what the >>> code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. >>> There >>> is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime >>> to hold >>> your hand. >> >> If you know C++ it's easy to understand what's happening behind the >> scenes. Your problem is that you don't understand the language. > [...] > > Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, but, there are differences > behind different STL implementations, no? I think mostly not since the way they're impemented is obvious.
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-12 00:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <tfmn0h$274lv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86272 |
On 9/11/2022 9:10 PM, Bonita Montero wrote: > Am 11.09.2022 um 21:41 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson: >> On 9/11/2022 8:55 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >>> Am 11.09.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >>> >>>>> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >>>>> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >>>>> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. >>> >>>> Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY >>>> what the >>>> code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. >>>> There >>>> is nothing to fall back on to tidy up any fuckups and no C++ runtime >>>> to hold >>>> your hand. >>> >>> If you know C++ it's easy to understand what's happening behind the >>> scenes. Your problem is that you don't understand the language. >> [...] >> >> Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, but, there are differences >> behind different STL implementations, no? > > I think mostly not since the way they're impemented is obvious. > > Remember way back, iirc, msvc 6.0 used Dinkumware? https://www.dinkumware.com/ A twisted nest of code that was! Good luck...
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| From | Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-12 09:18 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <jo84qkFnlosU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86258 |
On 2022-09-11 at 17:44, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 13:42:20 +0200 > Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >> Am 11.09.2022 um 11:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >> >>> The necessity is for a language that can have embedded assembler, is very >>> efficient to compile and once compiled and is explicit. Because of this >>> C++'s hidden conversions, exceptions and most of the STL can be ruled >>> out which doesn't leave much left thats an advantage over C. >> >> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do. >> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to >> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset. > > Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY what the > code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go. I have never understood how you can know EXACTLY what the code does in int y = f(x); but have no clue about what happens in my_class f(x);
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