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"Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"

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  "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 14:05 -0600
    Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2017-01-10 16:25 -0400
      Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Bo Persson <bop@gmb.dk> - 2017-01-10 21:57 +0100
      Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 12:59 -0800
    Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-10 22:43 +0100
      Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2017-01-10 22:24 +0000
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-11 00:28 +0100
          Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2017-01-11 00:46 +0000
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-11 09:12 +0100
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-11 18:06 +0000
          Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" jonkalb <google@kalbweb.com> - 2017-01-11 19:55 -0800
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-11 22:21 -0600
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-12 13:30 +0000
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" jonkalb <google@kalbweb.com> - 2017-01-14 00:15 -0800
                Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-16 13:40 +0000
                  Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" jonkalb <google@kalbweb.com> - 2017-01-16 21:46 -0800
                    Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-01-17 03:31 -0800
          Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> - 2017-01-12 10:10 -0800
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-12 18:13 +0000
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> - 2017-01-12 10:15 -0800
                Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-12 18:22 +0000
      Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-11 17:45 +1300
    Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 10:25 -0800
      Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-12 18:29 +0000
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 10:51 -0800
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 10:55 -0800
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-13 08:21 +1300
          Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2017-01-12 21:13 +0000
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 20:29 -0800
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-01-13 13:25 +0000
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-13 11:06 -0300
            Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Asger Joergensen" <Junk@Asger-P.dk> - 2017-01-14 02:54 +0000
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 21:11 -0600
                Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Asger Joergensen" <Junk@Asger-P.dk> - 2017-01-14 10:22 +0000
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2017-01-15 02:53 +0000
              Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-17 12:12 -0300
        Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-12 16:45 -0300
          Re: "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 11:55 -0800

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#47977

red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> writes:
>On 1/12/2017 10:13 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> writes:
>>> On 1/11/2017 10:06 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> I really don't see the advantage to this.   I worked for most of
>>>> a decade with a language called SPRITE which had modules, and
>>>> pre-compiled headers (called a Module Interface Definition).  One
>>>> big source file defining all the modules, the public and private
>>>> module interfaces, composite types and global variables.
>>>
>>> Dude, you were at Burroughs (later Unisys)?  I interviewed there
>>> back in '84!!!
>>
>> Indeed.  In the Pasadena MCP group working on Omega (what became MCP/VS 2.0);
>> started in '83.
>>
>
>No kidding?  That's where I interviewed!   As a side note, IIRC, SPRITE
>looked a heck of a lot like Modula-2.
>

Yes, the language designers were influenced by Algol and Modula.

07963000$SET CONTENTS "PROC:  show_known_ssps"
07964000%   ---------------------------------------------------------
07965000%   |                                                       |
07966000                         show_known_ssps
07967000%   |                                                       |
07968000%   ---------------------------------------------------------
07969000
07970000PROC( ssp_time  VALUE   SSP_TIME );
07971000SHARES
07972000    CONST   loader_storage,                                         %108
07973000    CONST   mcp_identification,
07974000    VAR     message_storage,
07975000    CONST   pointer_reference_table,
07976000    VAR     queue_storage;
07977000
07978000CONST
07979000    no_firmware             STRING (9) OF HEX = "080347000";
07980000
07981000VAR
07982000    base_ptr                DAT_POINTER,
07983000    ch_ptr     PTR TO CHANNEL_TABLE_ENTRY,
07984000    keyboard_message        STRING (30) OF HEX :=
07985000
07986000%        PROC     #      <n>      -      SSP     ON     CC/UU
07987000
07988000        "244" + "C7B" + "AF0" + "C60" + "387" + "087" + "800" + "000",
07989000
07990000    procno                  PACKED STRUC
07991000                                CASE BOOLEAN
07992000                    IS true:
07993000        as_int                      DINT1
07994000                    OR false:
07995000        as_hex                      HEX2
07996000                                ESAC
07997000                            CURTS := [true, processor_number],
07998000    search_done             BOOLEAN;
07999000
08000000
08001000
08002000    keyboard_message[8::2] := procno.as_hex;
08003000    base_ptr               := ioat_ptrs.first_element;
08004000    search_done            := false;
08005000
08006000    DO
08007000        FIND ioat_ptr OVER base_ptr..ioat_ptrs.last_element
08008000         INTO ioat_ptrs.base @
08009000         WHERE ioat_ptr@.primary_hardware_type = shared_system_processor
08010000         THEN
08011000            message_iosta := ioat_ptr @.device_status_number;
08012000            ch_ptr := ptr( channel_table_ptrs.base @
08013000                                  [ioat_ptr @.primary_channel_number] );
08014000
08014000
08015000            IF ^ch_ptr @.flags.good_firmware_file
08016000            THEN
08017000                keyboard_message[22::9] := no_firmware;
08018000            ELSE
08019000                keyboard_message[22::3] := fill_string( "0" );
08020000            FI;
08021000
08022000            kbout_mod.kbospr( keyboard_message );
08023000
08024000            IF load_flag = cold_start                               %108
08025000            THEN                                                    %108
08026000                q1.ioat_address_in_dat     := ioat_ptr;
08027000                q1.virtual_opcode_variants := vop_ssp_set_time;
08028000                q1.copy_desc := mcp.copy_desc( system_initialization,
08029000                                               data_page );
08030000                mcp.move_repeat( mcp.offset_ptr( ssp_time ),
08031000                                 q1.relative_buffer_addresses );
08032000                q1.relative_buffer_end_addr +:= SSP_TIME.SIZE;
08033000                q1.mcp_generated_io          := true;
08034000                q1.ignore_unrecovered_error  := true;
08035000
08036000                io_mod.initiate_mcp_io;             % Set the time
08037000
08038000            FI;                                                     %108
08039000            base_ptr := ptr_add( ioat_ptr, 1 );
08040000         ELSE
08041000            search_done := true;
08042000        DNIF;
08043000
08044000    OD UNTIL search_done;
08045000
08046000CORP;

constructs like the FIND statement were mapped to one of the search
instructions.

http://vseries.lurndal.org/doku.php?id=instructions:sea
http://vseries.lurndal.org/doku.php?id=instructions:slt

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#47931

On 01/11/17 10:43 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 10/01/17 21:05, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
>>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
>>
>> Lynn
>
> Modules are a great idea, at least in principle - I haven't followed
> enough of the details to give a technical opinion.  But it would have
> been nice to see more cooperation between MSVC developers and clang
> developers - clang has had an experimental module implementation for
> some time now, and I believe MSVC wanting to go their own way has been a
> big reason for C++17 not having modules.  If the MS idea is technically
> significantly better, that's fair enough - but not if it is just them
> trying to be "first" at something in the C++ world.
>
> Still, it's nice to see MSVC are catching up with C++14.

C++14 has been the compiler's default mode for a while now.

-- 
Ian

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#47979

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx

I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
Microsoft C++ 6.1.

When I began looking at Visual Studio 98 I was still thinking of the
standard development model:  code, compile, link, test, exit, back to
code, compile again, link again, test again, repeat.

But, one day I accidentally made a change to source code in the debug
window and pressed F10 to single-step continue.  It said "Applying
changes..." and then single-stepped.

I sat there ... with my jaw hanging open.  I didn't know what had just
happened.  I said out loud, "What?"  And then I began to try it again
and I realized what it was doing.

And that was when I was introduced to what has since become my most
valuable debugging tool.  I hold edit-and-continue to be the absolute
highest possible tool a person can possess (beyond the common/standard
debugging abilities like watch, inspect memory, break, step, manually
change variables, etc.).

Visual Studio is my tool of choice for development SOLELY for that
reason.  And when I get CAlive completed, it will have a very robust
version of that feature.

I wanted to share this because Visual Studio often times gets a bad
rap.  I do not advise anyone using any Visual Studios between 2010
and 2015, as Microsoft really went off track for a while.  2015
brought them mostly back, and 2017 looks to be similar (though I
have not done much with it yet as it's still clunky in RC state).

Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
in your code.

A very powerful tool.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#47980

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
>>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
>
>I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
>back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
>I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
>Microsoft C++ 6.1.
>
>Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
>productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
>Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
>drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
>your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
>and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
>feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
>in your code.
>
>A very powerful tool.

There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
same features as VS.  But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.

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#47981

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29:46 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
> >>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
> >
> >I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
> >back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
> >I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
> >Microsoft C++ 6.1.
> >
> >Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
> >productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
> >Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
> >drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
> >your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
> >and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
> >feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
> >in your code.
> >
> >A very powerful tool.
> 
> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> same features as VS.  But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.

That, my friend, is a viscous rumor stared by aliens.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#47982

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29:46 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
> >>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
> >
> >I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
> >back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
> >I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
> >Microsoft C++ 6.1.
> >
> >Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
> >productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
> >Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
> >drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
> >your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
> >and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
> >feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
> >in your code.
> >
> >A very powerful tool.
> 
> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> same features as VS.  But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.

Actually, I've never found one.  The closest I've found is Sun Studio
for Solaris.  But since Oracle is closing up all the sources, it's not
a viable target any longer.

Show me a Linux-based toolkit that has edit-and-continue and the same
type of refactoring abilities Visual Studio has with some of the
plugins / extensions available and I'll try it.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#47987

On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
>>>       https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
>>
>> I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
>> back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
>> I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
>> Microsoft C++ 6.1.
>>
>> Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
>> productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
>> Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
>> drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
>> your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
>> and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
>> feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
>> in your code.
>>
>> A very powerful tool.
>
> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> same features as VS.

Oh I wish there were...  Then I could convince the bulk of my current 
team to migrate off Windows.

> But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.

Spoken like a true Luddite!

-- 
Ian

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#47990

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
<edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:

>On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>> same features as VS.

Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.

There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
that is CLion.

>> But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.

Yes, you are using an IDE for typing.  They do much more than that.

Oh, and gdb is absolutely horrible.  It hasn't changed in 20+ years
since I first used it.  The VS debugger crushes gdb.
-- 
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
            The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
     The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
  Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

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#48007

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 4:13:58 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
> 
> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
> 
> >On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> >> same features as VS.
> 
> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
> 
> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
> that is CLion.
> 
> >> But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.
> 
> Yes, you are using an IDE for typing.  They do much more than that.
> 
> Oh, and gdb is absolutely horrible.  It hasn't changed in 20+ years
> since I first used it.  The VS debugger crushes gdb.

I agree.  Microsoft's Visual Studio development platform is second
to none.  It is the model I am seeking to use as a base for my own
IDE.  I have the same drag/drop/popout window plan, along with some
new extensions I'd like to see.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#48017

legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) writes:
>[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
>Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
><edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
>
>>On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>>> same features as VS.
>
>Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
>
>There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
>that is CLion.
>
>>> But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.
>
>Yes, you are using an IDE for typing.  They do much more than that.
>
>Oh, and gdb is absolutely horrible.  It hasn't changed in 20+ years
>since I first used it.  The VS debugger crushes gdb.

VS doesn't run on linux.   That automatically makes it a non-starter.

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#48018

On 01/12/2017 06:13 PM, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
>
>> On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>>> same features as VS.
>
> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
>
> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
> that is CLion.
>

I haven't tested CLion very well (is not free), but I use other IDEs 
from Jetbrains (IntelliJ/PyCharm), they are really good. On 
Linux/Solaris I use Eclipse CDT for C++, it's not bad and in some 
categories is (way) better than VS.


>>> But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.
>
> Yes, you are using an IDE for typing.  They do much more than that.
>

> Oh, and gdb is absolutely horrible.  It hasn't changed in 20+ years
> since I first used it.  The VS debugger crushes gdb.
>

I agree


-- 
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

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#48034

Hi Richard
%
Richard wrote:

> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
> 
> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
> 
> > On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> >> same features as VS.
> 
> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
> 
> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
> that is CLion.

Don't forget C++Bulder 

Best regards
Asger

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#48035

On 1/13/2017 8:54 PM, Asger Joergensen wrote:
> Hi Richard
> %
> Richard wrote:
>
>> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>>
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
>> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
>>
>>> On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>>>> same features as VS.
>>
>> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
>>
>> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
>> that is CLion.
>
> Don't forget C++Bulder
>
> Best regards
> Asger

Is that the descendant of Turbo C ?  The Turbo Pascal and Turbo C IDEs were freaking awesome.  I developed several products with 
those back in the 80s.

Lynn

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#48037

Hi Lynn

> 
> Is that the descendant of Turbo C ?  The Turbo Pascal and Turbo C IDEs were 
> freaking awesome.  I developed several products with those back in the 80s.
> 

Yes a direct line, but a lot have happened since then:
https://www.embarcadero.com/

Best regards
Asger

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#48060

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

"Asger Joergensen" <Junk@Asger-P.dk> spake the secret code
<xn0kkyqiy2cycpq000@news.astraweb.com> thusly:

>Hi Richard
>%
>Richard wrote:
>
>> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>> 
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
>> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
>> 
>> > On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>> >> same features as VS.
>> 
>> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
>> 
>> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
>> that is CLion.
>
>Don't forget C++Bulder 

I forgot about it after having used it 15 years ago :)
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#48116

On 01/13/2017 11:54 PM, Asger Joergensen wrote:
> Hi Richard
> %
> Richard wrote:
>
>> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>>
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
>> <edq3afF4adcU1@mid.individual.net> thusly:
>>
>>> On 01/13/17 07:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
>>>> same features as VS.
>>
>> Clearly you don't use VS for anything more fancy than typing.
>>
>> There is only one IDE that comes even close to VS productivity and
>> that is CLion.
>
> Don't forget C++Bulder
>

C++ Builder is (or was) really nice (I used it a lot until version 6), 
but IMO has some problems:
	
- It's proprietary
- It's very expensive
- Its main libraries (VCL and FireMonkey) are coded in Object Pascal: 
this imposes some limitations to C++, ie. some kind of MI are not 
allowed or source/header files (related to VCL) must have a strict 
naming convention in order to be compilable. Also debugging Pascal code 
is not funny :-P
- Until recently its compiler was behind modern standards (AFAIK they 
changed their ancient compiler for clang)
- It doesn't support Linux.
- It is difficult to integrate 3rd party libraries (nobody test their 
libraries with C++ Builder)


-- 
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

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#47988

On 01/12/2017 03:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
>>>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
>>
>> I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
>> back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
>> I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
>> Microsoft C++ 6.1.
>>
>> Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
>> productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
>> Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
>> drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
>> your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
>> and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
>> feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
>> in your code.
>>
>> A very powerful tool.
>
> There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> same features as VS.  But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.
>

Well, AFAIK nobody has the awesome "edit and continue" feature except VS 
(which IMHO has the best debugger out there).


-- 
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

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#47989

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 2:45:48 PM UTC-5, Cholo Lennon wrote:
> On 01/12/2017 03:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> >> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:05:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>> "Visual C++ - Microsoft Pushes C++ into the Future"
> >>>      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt694085.aspx
> >>
> >> I remember when Visual Studio 98 came out.  I was mostly a DOS user
> >> back then.  I used Windows 3.x and later, but for most of my development
> >> I was using The SemWare Editor, DOS 6.22, and Microsoft MASM 6.11d, and
> >> Microsoft C++ 6.1.
> >>
> >> Visual Studio is a very powerful tool.  It can increase your
> >> productivity so much.  And if you get a Windows VM running in a
> >> Linux environment, you can use VS in the Windows VM with a network
> >> drive mapped to your Linux partition, and you're able to develop
> >> your Linux apps using Visual Studio, flip to the terminal window
> >> and compile and run.  And with Visual Studio 2015's code analyzer
> >> feature, it will find a lot more bugs that have never shown up
> >> in your code.
> >>
> >> A very powerful tool.
> >
> > There are a dozen native IDE's available for linux with all the
> > same features as VS.  But none of them are as useful than VIM+Make+GDB.
> >
> 
> Well, AFAIK nobody has the awesome "edit and continue" feature except VS 
> (which IMHO has the best debugger out there).

There was an effort spear-headed by Apple a few years back to get
"fix-and-continue" working in their toolchain + gdb.  As I understand
it, they completed it and got it working fairly decently (though not
bug free).

I do not use Apple products so I have no idea where it is today.  I've
just seen forum posts from time to time dating back to the 2000s.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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