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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86469 > unrolled thread

“Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated”

Started byLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
First post2022-09-21 14:04 -0500
Last post2022-09-26 02:08 -0400
Articles 9 on this page of 109 — 28 participants

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  “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 14:04 -0500
    Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 12:28 -0700
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 06:16 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 09:45 +0200
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:07 -0400
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 08:42 +0200
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 15:24 +0000
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:00 -0700
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 16:11 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:22 -0700
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 09:41 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 16:46 +0100
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-22 16:15 +0000
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 20:43 +0200
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 20:15 +0100
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 22:56 +0200
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-22 23:15 +0100
                g++ with -O6 slower than with  -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 13:44 +0200
                  Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-23 13:53 +0100
                    Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:31 +0200
                  Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:53 +0200
                    Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 16:21 +0200
                      Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-24 17:05 +0200
                        Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-24 12:33 -0700
                          Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-25 08:45 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 00:08 +0100
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:45 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-23 12:13 +0300
                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 10:01 +0000
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-23 03:14 -0700
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:57 -0700
                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-02 13:53 -0700
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-07 16:00 -0700
                            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-08 10:57 -0700
                              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-09 08:33 -0700
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:58 +0100
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:03 -0400
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:32 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-23 14:43 -0700
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:26 +0000
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:15 +0100
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:35 -0700
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:44 -0700
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:09 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 13:25 +0200
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:13 +0000
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 10:44 -0700
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:26 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2022-09-27 09:56 -0600
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-27 10:50 -0700
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 01:57 -0400
    Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2022-09-22 14:01 +0000
    Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-23 03:17 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:50 +0000
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:37 +0200
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:19 +0000
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 13:55 +0200
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 14:31 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-26 16:05 +0100
                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:36 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:21 +0200
                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 13:26 +0000
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-27 16:53 +0200
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 10:32 +0200
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-27 18:18 +0000
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 01:30 -0400
                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 08:26 +0000
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 10:43 +0200
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 13:15 -0400
                            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 23:38 +0000
                              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:46 +0200
                                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-29 17:58 +0000
                                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-30 09:17 +0200
                                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 16:39 +0000
                                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-01 12:47 +0200
                                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 17:20 +0000
                                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-30 20:59 +0300
                                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:31 -0700
                                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 13:38 +0200
                                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-02 13:00 +0100
                                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 16:20 +0200
                                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-02 22:05 +0200
                                            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-03 11:58 +0200
                                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:24 -0700
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 09:40 +0200
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 07:56 -0400
                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 15:50 +0200
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 14:21 +0000
                            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 16:17 +0000
                              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 16:56 +0000
                                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 20:31 +0200
                                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2022-09-28 21:45 +0000
                            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:50 +0200
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 19:33 -0400
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-26 09:04 -0600
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:27 +0200
                  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 08:11 -0600
                    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 18:10 +0200
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 17:30 -0600
                      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 00:26 +0000
                        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
                          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-28 13:33 +0100
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-25 19:31 +0200
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-26 04:53 +0000
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:59 -0700
    Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-23 18:32 +0200
    Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400

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#86660 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2022-09-27 17:30 -0600
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<jphfbtF8bpfU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86655
On 9/27/22 10:10, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote:
>> On 9/27/22 03:27, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2022 17:04, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/22 05:55, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> Designated initialisers are certainly nice, but I would not call 
>>>>> them the "best" feature of C99.  If I were to pick one favourite 
>>>>> C99 feature, it would be mixing declarations and statements - but 
>>>>> such choices are highly subjective.  However, it's taken until 
>>>>> C++20 to get designated initialisers in C++, which suggests that 
>>>>> they were not viewed as the most important feature (though there 
>>>>> has certainly been plenty of call for them in C++).
>>>>
>>>> I'd go with the ability to place declarations close to the code 
>>>> using them also. Throwing in curly braces worked but it wasn't too 
>>>> elegant.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is one of the important benefits of being able to mix 
>>> declarations and statements, so I think we agree on our favourite 
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> It is not the only benefit, however.  Declaring your variable only 
>>> when you have something useful to put in it lets you make many such 
>>> variables "const" - then both the programmer and the compiler know it 
>>> is not going to change.  It makes adding new local variables "cheap" 
>>> - so instead of re-using a single "int temp;" variable in a dozen 
>>> places in the function, you have many const variables that do one 
>>> thing, with one name, and you always know exactly what they are.
>>
>> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the 
>> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I 
>> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed. 
>> Used correctly it's valuable
> 
> Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and 
> badly written code?  If you have code written by people who don't know 
> how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it 
> when it is useful.
> 

That is true but dealing with badly written code is part of my life.

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#86661 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2022-09-28 00:26 +0000
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<20220927172027.565@kylheku.com>
In reply to#86655
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]
On 2022-09-27, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote:
>> On 9/27/22 03:27, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2022 17:04, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/22 05:55, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> Designated initialisers are certainly nice, but I would not call 
>>>>> them the "best" feature of C99.  If I were to pick one favourite C99 
>>>>> feature, it would be mixing declarations and statements - but such 
>>>>> choices are highly subjective.  However, it's taken until C++20 to 
>>>>> get designated initialisers in C++, which suggests that they were 
>>>>> not viewed as the most important feature (though there has certainly 
>>>>> been plenty of call for them in C++).
>>>>
>>>> I'd go with the ability to place declarations close to the code using 
>>>> them also. Throwing in curly braces worked but it wasn't too elegant.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is one of the important benefits of being able to mix 
>>> declarations and statements, so I think we agree on our favourite 
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> It is not the only benefit, however.  Declaring your variable only 
>>> when you have something useful to put in it lets you make many such 
>>> variables "const" - then both the programmer and the compiler know it 
>>> is not going to change.  It makes adding new local variables "cheap" - 
>>> so instead of re-using a single "int temp;" variable in a dozen places 
>>> in the function, you have many const variables that do one thing, with 
>>> one name, and you always know exactly what they are.
>> 
>> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the 
>> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I 
>> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed. 
>> Used correctly it's valuable
>
> Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and 
> badly written code?  If you have code written by people who don't know 
> how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it 
> when it is useful.

const requires a modicum of generic programming to use in a satisfactory
manner in all circumstances. The problem is that functions with
const-qualified pointer arguments accept qualified and unqualified
pointers. 

If they return a pointer into the same object, if they make it
const-qualified, it's inconvenient. If they return unqualified, 
an unsafe cast is required inside the function.

The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can
have code like this:

   const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a');

as well as

   char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a');

thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function.

(I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this,
to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const
and non-const.)

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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#86670 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<th12f4$b2d9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86661
On 28/09/2022 02:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]

(Please don't set follow-ups that exclude groups that are clearly 
relevant and part of the active thread - it just breaks up conversations.)

> On 2022-09-27, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote:

<snip>

>>> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the
>>> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I
>>> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed.
>>> Used correctly it's valuable
>>
>> Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and
>> badly written code?  If you have code written by people who don't know
>> how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it
>> when it is useful.
> 
> const requires a modicum of generic programming to use in a satisfactory
> manner in all circumstances. The problem is that functions with
> const-qualified pointer arguments accept qualified and unqualified
> pointers.
> 
> If they return a pointer into the same object, if they make it
> const-qualified, it's inconvenient. If they return unqualified,
> an unsafe cast is required inside the function.

Yes, being "const consistent" can sometimes be awkward.  That does not 
mean avoiding "const" is a good idea - it just means "const" is not 
quite as simple as one might like.

> 
> The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can
> have code like this:
> 
>     const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a');
> 
> as well as
> 
>     char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a');
> 
> thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function.

Yes.

> 
> (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this,
> to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const
> and non-const.)
> 

Yes, _Generic certainly could handle that.

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#86675 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2022-09-28 13:33 +0100
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<87pmffu19g.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#86670
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 28/09/2022 02:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
<cut>
>> The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can
>> have code like this:
>>     const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a');
>> as well as
>>     char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a');
>> thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function.
>
> Yes.
>
>> (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this,
>> to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const
>> and non-const.)
>
> Yes, _Generic certainly could handle that.

And now C23 proposes type-generic versions of strchr etc.

-- 
Ben.

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#86583 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2022-09-25 19:31 +0200
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<tgq39g$2pt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#86519
On 9/23/2022 9:50 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> In comp.lang.c++ Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]
>> On 2022-09-21, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
>>>      https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/
>>>
>>> ??????It???s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for
>>> those scenarios where a non-GC language is required.
>>
>> Those scenarios are almost never, though.
>>
>> The niche is small, and nothing needs replacing in it.
> 
> I wouldn't call embedded programming to be a "small niche".
> 
> (Well, the subset of embedded programming that happens on processors
> so small that they can't run Linux, at least.)

Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only.
I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations fail 
because of the non deterministic nature of GC.

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#86589 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2022-09-26 04:53 +0000
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<20220925214731.135@kylheku.com>
In reply to#86583
On 2022-09-25, Manfred <noname@add.invalid> wrote:
> Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only.
> I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations fail 
> because of the non deterministic nature of GC.

And are you sure that you didn't see a large project fail for various
reasons, whereby some people tried to shift the blame to garbage
collection?

Today someone will pull it off ... in the browser.

(How many decades before the web was this?)

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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#86768 — Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2022-10-02 12:59 -0700
SubjectRe: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Message-ID<8635c6j8tp.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#86583
Manfred <noname@add.invalid> writes:

> On 9/23/2022 9:50 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>
>> In comp.lang.c++ Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]
>>> On 2022-09-21, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich:  C/C++ should be deprecated
>>>>      https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/
>>>>
>>>> It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust
>>>> for those scenarios where a non-GC language is required.
>>>
>>> Those scenarios are almost never, though.
>>>
>>> The niche is small, and nothing needs replacing in it.
>>
>> I wouldn't call embedded programming to be a "small niche".
>>
>> (Well, the subset of embedded programming that happens on processors
>> so small that they can't run Linux, at least.)
>
> Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only.
> I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations
> fail because of the non deterministic nature of GC.

Garbage collection is not inherently non-deterministic.

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#86539

FromOpus <ifonly@youknew.org>
Date2022-09-23 18:32 +0200
Message-ID<tgkn2c$1ldk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#86469
Le 21/09/2022 à 21:04, Lynn McGuire a écrit :
> “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated”
>     https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/
> 
> ““It’s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for 
> those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. For the sake of 
> security and reliability, the industry should declare those languages as 
> deprecated,” he said on Twitter, expressing a personal opinion rather 
> than a fresh Microsoft policy.”
> 
> Wow !  Bold.

It's not bold. It's just stupid.


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#86593

FromBlue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com>
Date2022-09-26 02:08 -0400
Message-ID<tgrfk4$3m0g3$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86469

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 9/21/22 15:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated”
>     https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/
> 
> ““It’s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for 
> those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. For the sake of 
> security and reliability, the industry should declare those languages as 
> deprecated,” he said on Twitter, expressing a personal opinion rather 
> than a fresh Microsoft policy.”
> 
> Wow !  Bold.
> 
> Lynn
> 

oh goodness me not more rust bullshit
​
-- 
/blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
I think my Usenet provider stores their passwords in plain text.  If i'm 
acting suspiciously, chances are that that backfired on them.

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