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Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference"

From Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference"
Date 2022-09-12 20:32 +0200
Message-ID <jo9c9lFu516U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <tfkalm$1mt8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tfkhid$1t2tl$1@dont-email.me> <tfkvo9$km1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jo84qkFnlosU1@mid.individual.net> <tfnkvj$og$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 2022-09-12 at 17:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 09:18:44 +0200
> Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> wrote:
>> On 2022-09-11 at 17:44, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 13:42:20 +0200
>>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Am 11.09.2022 um 11:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>
>>>>> The necessity is for a language that can have embedded assembler, is very
>>>>> efficient to compile and once compiled and is explicit. Because of this
>>>>> C++'s hidden conversions, exceptions and most of the STL can be ruled
>>>>> out which doesn't leave much left thats an advantage over C.
>>>>
>>>> That all isn't a problem in the kernel if you know what you do.
>>>> Kernel-Programmers are very skilled and the should be able to
>>>> handle that, but it's not up to their mindset.
>>>
>>> Its nothing to do with their mindset, its to do with knowing EXACTLY what the
>>
>>> code is going to do and/or where the program counter is going to go.
>>
>> I have never understood how you can know EXACTLY what the code does in
>>
>> int y = f(x);
>>
>> but have no clue about what happens in
>>
>> my_class f(x);
> 
> And if that instance has virtual functions where will the VFT go and what
> allocates it? Ditto any non primitive types which may cause an implcit cascade
> of allocations.

Just don't see how we know that int y = f(x); doesn't call other 
functions that allocate structs on the heap? Structs that contain 
function pointers that are then called, cause an implicit cascade
of allocations.

> 
> People like yourself and Bonita just don't seem to get the fact that there's no
> safety net inside ring 0 code. You can't just handwave away stuff that in
> application code would be taken care of by the runtime. >

You can look at the class declaration to see what the constructor does - 
and that there are no virtual functions present. Just like you have to 
verify what the C function does.

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"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500
  Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-09 19:03 +0000
  Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 18:16 +0200
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-10 17:04 +0000
      Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
      Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:24 +0200
        C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-24 15:54 +0000
          Re: C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 18:07 +0200
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
      Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 11:16 +0200
        Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 09:44 +0000
          Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 13:42 +0200
            Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 15:44 +0000
              Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 17:55 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 16:17 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:22 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 12:41 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 06:10 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 00:27 -0700
              Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 09:18 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 09:42 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 12:05 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 12:12 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:31 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-12 15:58 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 18:48 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 20:32 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:27 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-13 22:33 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 06:04 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:38 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:21 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-15 12:15 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 06:02 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 10:37 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 11:05 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 13:18 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 16:00 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 15:16 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:13 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:45 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 08:33 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 10:41 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 13:48 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 15:22 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 13:10 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:51 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-19 12:27 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 11:19 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 06:56 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 14:29 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 17:04 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-16 08:24 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 09:00 -0700
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 00:54 +0100
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-15 05:31 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 10:19 +0100
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 12:41 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 09:16 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:29 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:55 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-16 20:16 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 16:55 -0500
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 22:21 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-17 14:52 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:06 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:34 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:22 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:11 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 10:14 +0200
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:12 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:58 +0200
              Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-13 06:47 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:29 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 05:56 +0000
                Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-14 09:37 +0000
          boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 09:51 -0700
            Re: boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:55 +0200
        Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-11 16:26 +0000
          Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:35 +0200
        Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-12 19:22 +0200
          Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:24 +0000
  Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-10 12:56 -0700
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 15:53 -0700
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 07:07 +0200
      Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 16:17 -0700
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-11 13:50 +0200
      Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 05:53 -0700
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-12 05:47 +0000
  Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-09-11 00:01 +0100
    Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 16:26 -0700
  Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000

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