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Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code?

From Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code?
Date 2012-04-17 16:06 +1200
Message-ID <9v48hfFoqtU2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <4f8b5ae2$0$8504$c3e8da3$cc4fe22d@news.astraweb.com> <87mx6cfq4c.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4f8b76ad$0$1701$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com> <87hawjkxjr.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <5f4jr.9360$qT5.7995@news.usenetserver.com>

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On 04/17/12 02:06 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Miles Bader<miles@gnu.org>  writes:
>> Pavel<pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo>  writes:
>>>> Real namespaces are better than "glued on" adhoc namespaces because
>>>> they allow _either_ explicit references or implicit [with "using"]
>>>> references, and that choice is in the hands of the user [of the
>>>> namespace] where it belongs.  The appropriate choice can differ,
>>>> for the same namespace, depending on the context of the use.
>>>
>>> Well, because "explicit" references are possible without namespaces,
>>> the only feature they are adding seems to be allowing to use the
>>> "implicit" ones.
>>
>> That doesn't mean one always has to use that feature.  However the
>> _ability_ to use that feature is important.
>>
>>> By mentioning of "write-only" code in my original answer I was trying
>>> to make a point that "more choices" is not necessarily equivalent to
>>> "better". Specifically, "more choices" provided by namespaces may be
>>> desirable for code writer but be rather hurtful for reader.
>>
>> "More explicit" names are not always "more readable," and can often be
>> _less_ readable, because the constant repetition obscures what's
>> actually meaningful.
>
> I'd disagree with this.   Without namespaces, an unqualified variable
> is scoped local to the member function or is a class member (static
> or not).   It may be a global static if the coding guidelines allow such
> a thing (good ones don't).   By explicitly qualifying any other identifier,
> one is instantly aware of where it is stored and/or defined.   Using
> namespaces (no pun intended) obscures that and makes understanding the
> code more difficult.

Not really, consider code with lots of io.  Does us look clearer with 
"std::cin" and friends or with a using directive and "cin"?

Provided your naming conventions differ for namespaces and types (all 
those I've used do), differentiating between a static class member and a 
namespace scoped variable is straightforward.

> None of the C++ projects that I've worked on (two operating systems,
> a hypervisor, two full system simulators and a major CA's certificate
> generation code) used namespaces, nor did most of them allow any
> unqualified statics, which are almost always problematic in threaded
> or re-entrant code.   Of course, all of the above must be thread-safe
> and re-entrant for proper operation.

Where these recent projects?  It took a while for namespaces to be 
widely used after they were introduced in the '98 standard.  A 
surprising number of libraries still have namespaces hidden in macros in 
order to support legacy compilers.

-- 
Ian Collins

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Thread

Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? mathog <dmathog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-10 08:54 -0700
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? "K. Frank" <kfrank29.c@gmail.com> - 2012-04-10 12:55 -0700
    Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 09:23 -0700
      Writing extensions, like VBA "macros", Perl or JavaScript.  @Jeff-Relf.Me - 2012-04-11 11:22 -0700
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2012-04-11 14:35 -0500
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-11 21:53 +0000
        Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? mathog <dmathog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-12 12:01 -0700
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? "K. Frank" <kfrank29.c@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 16:06 -0700
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Christopher Pisz <someone@somewhere.net> - 2012-04-12 11:46 -0500
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-12 22:32 -0400
        Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-13 02:16 -0700
          Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-15 10:21 +0000
            Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-15 19:33 -0400
              Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-16 09:59 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-15 21:32 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-17 09:32 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2012-04-17 02:06 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-17 11:35 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-17 16:06 +1200
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2012-04-17 15:24 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-18 04:50 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2012-04-17 20:18 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-18 10:31 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2012-04-18 01:36 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-18 11:00 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-18 22:09 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-19 11:41 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-18 23:04 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-19 13:33 +0900
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-19 15:56 +1200
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-19 22:54 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-20 14:31 +0900
              Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-04-16 06:39 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-18 22:25 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-19 13:58 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-19 23:39 -0400
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-22 16:37 +0000
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-04-19 23:20 +0200
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-19 23:54 -0400
              Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-17 03:50 -0700
                Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-17 12:01 +0000
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-11 08:04 +1200
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-10 22:26 +0000
    Rewrite it.  @Jeff-Relf.Me - 2012-04-10 16:31 -0700
      Re: Rewrite it.  nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-11 01:20 -0700
        Re: Rewrite it.  Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 10:06 +0100
          Re: Rewrite it.  nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-11 03:45 -0700
            Building a "house" that you can live in for decades to come.  @Jeff-Relf.Me - 2012-04-11 08:52 -0700
              Re: Building a "house" that you can live in for decades to come.  Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2012-04-12 13:19 +0900
    Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? "K. Frank" <kfrank29.c@gmail.com> - 2012-04-10 17:37 -0700
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-12 21:40 -0400
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? michael.boehnisch@gmail.com - 2012-04-10 17:29 -0700
    Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 10:02 +0100
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-04-11 22:36 +0000
    Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 16:05 -0700
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world, C++ code? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-11 19:37 -0500
  Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-12 21:48 -0400
    Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-04-15 09:56 +0000
      Re: Methods for understanding complex, real world,  C++ code? Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2012-04-15 19:43 -0400

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