Re: Why does this work on Xcode ???

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: Why does this work on Xcode ???
Date	2019-08-23 13:12 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<8736hsdqsv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <qin4h5$4jb$1@dont-email.me> <86v9upglek.fsf@mailhub.linuxsc.com> <qjmkm4$84q$1@dont-email.me> <87pnkwakex.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <qjnt6f$e14$1@dont-email.me>

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"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> writes:

> On 23.08.2019 00:45, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> writes:
>> <cut>
>>> And I don't think you think you're smarter than everybody else in this
>>> group just for holding an opinion on UB that nobody else here shares.
>>
>> Why do you think no one else shares Tim's opinion?
>
> Because he's been arguing his view for a very long time and nobody's
> supported him.

That's not a sound basis for making that assumption.

> Also because it's a totally impractical view so I'd not expect any
> practitioner to support it.

Impractical views can be correct.  As it happens, I don't see this view
as an impractical one, but either way it can still be correct.

>> Tim has not said anything here about UB that I disagree with.
>
> Well then, speak up in defense of his view.

I don't see what I can add.  Tim is a far better writer than I am and
has (I my opinion) put the case accurately and clearly.  I don't hold
with the modern idea that my opinion matters, just because I have it.  I
try to offer my opinion only when I can see some point in doing so.

I chipped in here only because I thought it would be useful to know that
silence can't be read as support for either one view or another.

>>  You have, but I've found
>> my life to be more pleasant if I don't reply to your posts, and anyway,
>> Tim has it covered.
>
> If I have said things that you disagree with about UB, then most
> likely so have everybody else who's responded to Tim on this
> subject. As far as I recall you didn't speak up at any point, so your
> explanation, that you're afraid of replying to /me/, just doesn't hold
> water.

Sorry, it was not intended as an explanation for why I did not reply to
other people (and I did not say I was afraid to reply).  There is no one
reason that will explain every time I choose more to post.

> So, your explanation for keeping silent appears to be an untruth that
> you know is an untruth, anyway embedded in an ad hominem attack.

Why the Latin?  "ad hominem" brings to mind a logical fallacy, but I am
not making any logical argument at all.  My remark was entirely
emotional.  Whilst I enjoy reading your posts, I have not enjoyed my
reaction to our direct exchanges.  That says as much about me as it does
your posts.

> The thread has been civilized so far, but now (1) Tim has added a
> social silly-argument (that to disagree with him one must think of
> oneself as smarter than all people on the committee), and (2) you add
> an untruth and an ad hominem attack.

I don't think it's uncivilised to say what I said, and I think it's an
extreme exaggeration to call what I wrote an attack.  As I said, it's as
much about my reaction as it about your posting style.

> That development of dishonest more social argumentation is probably
> about something else than that you now suddenly feel you're losing a
> technical debate.

I am not engaged in a technical debate.  I don't recall making any
technical contribution at all.

> Because you lost this debate very long ago: roughly nobody agree with
> you that exceeding resource limits isn't UB. The standard says it
> is. And that was noted early on, and repeated a gazillion times.

Then your replies make no sense to me.  If it is so clearly settled (in
C++, I presume -- maybe C is different here), just cite the unequivocal
text that settles the matter.  If anyone disagrees, cite the text
again.

-- 
Ben.

Thread

Why does this work on Xcode ??? Bob Langelaan <bobl0456@gmail.com> - 2019-07-16 22:03 -0700
  Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-07-17 08:46 +0300
  Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-07-17 00:06 -0700
    Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-07-17 01:44 -0700
  Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-07-17 07:46 +0000
  Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-07-17 09:12 -0400
  Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 17:01 +0200
    Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-07-17 22:15 +0100
      Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 23:29 +0200
        Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-07-19 08:27 +0200
          Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-07-19 09:09 +0200
            Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-07-19 09:24 +0200
            Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-10 11:18 -0700
              Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-10 21:05 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-22 10:28 -0700
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-22 19:50 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-08-22 23:45 +0100
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-23 07:22 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-08-23 13:12 +0100
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-23 16:02 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-18 08:50 -0700
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-08-23 09:28 -0400
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-23 16:37 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-23 23:07 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-08-23 19:10 -0400
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-24 06:49 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-08-23 19:49 -0400
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-24 06:45 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-25 12:06 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-25 13:25 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-25 15:11 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-25 17:12 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-25 23:32 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-26 11:51 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-26 13:26 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-25 11:36 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-08-25 13:27 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-25 15:15 +0200
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-08-26 00:43 -0400
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-24 04:58 -0700
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-26 09:53 -0700
                Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-28 18:03 -0700
          Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-07-19 00:20 -0700
          Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-09 07:41 -0700
      Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-24 19:49 +0200
    Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-07-21 11:41 +0000
      Re: Why does this work on Xcode ??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-08-10 09:29 -0700

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