Re: I think references should have been const by default

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: I think references should have been const by default
Date	2021-10-29 06:41 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86o878dk36.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <sl6ecq$11uu$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sl6go4$pjq$1@dont-email.me> <sl6k3n$e8m$1@gioia.aioe.org> <8735op2cv0.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <sl961t$qs4$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Manfred <noname@add.invalid> writes:

> On 10/25/2021 8:11 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>
>> Manfred <noname@add.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 10/25/2021 4:59 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/25/21 10:19 AM, RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> No idea what UB means, but what'll happen is it'll crash
>>>>> immediately so you'll soon find out.
>>>>
>>>> UB means "Undefined Behavior", a technical term from the C
>>>> standard which does NOT mean "behavior for which there is no
>>>> definition".  It means "behavior, upon use of a nonportable or
>>>> erroneous program construct or of erroneous data, for which this
>>>> document imposes no requirements" (3.4.3).  Note that "this
>>>> document" refers to the C standard;  other documents (such as
>>>> compiler documentation or ABI standards) might define the
>>>> behavior, without changing the fact that is qualifies as
>>>> "undefined behavior" as far as the C standard is concerned.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the quote, it made me compare it with the definition of
>>> UB in the C++ standard, which simply states "behavior for which
>>> this International Standard imposes no requirements".
>>>
>>> The lack of the sentence "upon use of a nonportable or erroneous
>>> program construct or of erroneous data" actually relegates the
>>> language at the mercy of language lawyers, and led to the UB bloat
>>> that affects C++ nowadays.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I don't see how the omission of "upon use of a nonportable or
>> erroneous program construct or of erroneous data" in the C++
>> standard makes any real difference.
>
> It depends on the reader:  whether it is some sort of text
> processing machine, a language lawyer or a human being.
>
>> C definition, all standard editions:
>>      behavior, upon use of a nonportable or erroneous program
>>      construct or of erroneous data, for which this International
>>      Standard imposes no requirements
>>
>> C++ definition, before C++11:
>>      behavior, such as might arise upon use of an erroneous program
>>      construct or erroneous data, for which this International
>>      Standard imposes no requirement
>>
>> C++ definition, C++11 and later:
>>      behavior for which this International Standard imposes no
>>      requirements
>>
>> In all cases, "undefined behavior" is determined either by an
>> explicit statement or by the omission of any definition of the
>> behavior (or, in C, by violation of a "shall" outside a
>> constraint).
>
> For a human being, the additional sentence makes a difference,
> simply because it is there:  it means that the writer had a reason
> to write it, and such writer's intent is part of the message that
> matters to a human reader.
>
> More specifically:
>
> In C, the additional sentence actually poses a distinctive
> characterization of the code that qualifies for undefined behavior,
> i.e. "nonportable or erroneus" code, which is something else than
> saying "anything that is not explicitly defined here".  Now, the
> problem is that the C definition actually redirects to a definition
> of "nonportable" and (more relevantly) "erroneous", so a machine
> reader might trigger an "undefined reference" error and stop
> parsing.  A language lawyer might interpret the wording as implying
> that anything that is not explicitly defined is considered
> "nonportable" or "erroneous", but that's an interpretation which is
> still to be proven to hold in court, since the other party's lawyer
> might interpret the same wording as UB being <<anything that is
> "nonportable" or "erroneous" /and/ is not covered by this
> standard's requirements>>
>
> [...]

Thank you for injecting a note of sanity into a discussion of
what text in the C and C++ standards means.

Thread

I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-21 05:23 +0000
  Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-21 08:54 +0200
    Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-21 09:48 +0000
      Re: I think references should have been const by default Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-10-21 12:55 +0300
      Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-21 12:57 +0200
        Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-21 13:40 +0000
          Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-21 15:04 +0100
            Re: I think references should have been const by default Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-21 16:41 +0200
              Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-21 14:57 +0000
            Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-21 14:51 +0000
            Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-21 12:09 -0400
              Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-21 23:49 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-21 16:21 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-22 16:14 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-22 12:04 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-22 20:47 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-22 13:29 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-23 11:54 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-23 11:22 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-23 12:35 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-10-23 13:23 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-23 13:57 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-10-23 21:02 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-23 15:07 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-23 21:15 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-23 21:12 -0700
              Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-22 11:13 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-22 19:18 -0400
            Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-22 04:41 +0000
              Re: I think references should have been const by default Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2021-10-23 21:30 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-25 04:51 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2021-10-26 00:53 +0100
            Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-22 09:46 +0200
              Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-22 15:48 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-23 12:21 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-23 12:06 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-23 18:45 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-23 18:58 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-24 12:11 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-24 23:11 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-10-24 16:18 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-25 00:58 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-25 08:21 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-25 09:47 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-10-25 12:33 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-25 14:19 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-25 10:59 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-25 17:56 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 11:11 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-26 17:15 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-29 06:41 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-25 16:14 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-25 13:14 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 08:18 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 12:39 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-10-26 14:29 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 15:11 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 09:49 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 18:38 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 11:20 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 20:32 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-26 22:18 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 04:43 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-27 08:29 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-29 06:32 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-01 06:12 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-01 08:53 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-01 11:26 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-11-02 16:19 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-02 12:54 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-11-02 23:49 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-11-03 00:38 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 14:36 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 15:55 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 15:26 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-26 20:35 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 04:44 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 11:27 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 10:31 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 14:42 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 11:22 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 15:30 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 12:23 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 12:51 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 14:34 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 12:57 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-27 07:57 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 08:47 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-27 14:29 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-28 05:17 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-28 09:30 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-29 04:47 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-29 05:11 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-29 08:40 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-01 06:15 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-27 11:07 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-27 14:30 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-27 17:30 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-27 15:46 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-27 16:13 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-27 11:39 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-27 15:51 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-10-27 17:21 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-28 09:29 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-28 11:20 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-27 12:26 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 09:22 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-01 00:13 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-28 05:20 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-27 23:10 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-28 09:30 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-29 04:51 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-29 08:39 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-01 06:34 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2021-10-27 17:41 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-27 19:02 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2021-10-27 18:21 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-27 11:38 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default JohnnyCameLater@whatsthetime.net - 2021-10-27 15:49 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-27 12:36 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 04:57 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-25 18:19 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 10:48 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 08:21 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 08:37 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 09:02 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 11:14 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 14:35 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 05:01 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-29 06:34 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 10:43 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 15:21 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-26 22:32 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-27 05:04 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 10:42 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 14:48 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 11:52 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 10:22 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 10:27 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 14:06 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-29 06:45 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-29 11:11 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-04-25 07:39 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-04-25 10:59 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 05:29 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-26 08:53 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-26 08:23 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 08:40 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 05:18 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-26 09:07 +0200
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 11:03 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-25 10:39 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 10:56 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-25 10:30 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-25 14:39 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-25 11:05 -0400
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 12:45 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 11:20 -0700
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-25 05:00 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-25 12:13 +0100
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-26 05:36 +0000
                Re: I think references should have been const by default Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-25 16:58 +0200
    Re: I think references should have been const by default "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-10-22 12:28 -0700
  Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-21 09:12 +0000
    Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-21 09:52 +0000
      Re: I think references should have been const by default RacingRabbit@watershipdown.co.uk - 2021-10-21 10:36 +0000
        Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-22 04:45 +0000
    Re: I think references should have been const by default James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-21 12:07 -0400
  Re: I think references should have been const by default Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-10-21 12:18 +0300
  Re: I think references should have been const by default Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-21 13:13 +0200
    Re: I think references should have been const by default Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-10-21 15:08 +0200
    Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-22 04:45 +0000
      Re: I think references should have been const by default Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-22 07:55 +0200
        Re: I think references should have been const by default Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-22 11:21 +0000
  Re: I think references should have been const by default "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-10-21 13:22 +0200
    Re: I think references should have been const by default Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-22 04:48 +0000
  Re: I think references should have been const by default Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-21 13:57 +0200
  Re: I think references should have been const by default Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-21 21:27 +0000
  Re: I think references should have been const by default Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-10-24 14:20 +0000

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