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Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe"

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From wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe"
Date Sat, 09 Nov 2024 06:35:45 +0800
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On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 14:09 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 11/8/2024 2:02 PM, wij wrote:
> > On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 13:27 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > On 11/8/2024 1:18 PM, wij wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 12:46 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > > > On 11/8/2024 6:54 AM, Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 14:48:16 GMT
> > > > > > scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) boring babbled:
> > > > > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > > > On 10/30/2024 11:56 AM, jseigh wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 10/28/24 12:25, jseigh wrote:
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > The whole nullable pointer thing was a unrelated spin off of a
> > > > > > > > > > solution I did for addressing pointer provenance as discussed in
> > > > > > > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/993484/ in the comments.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > The nullable pointer solution I proposed is not super clear
> > > > > > > > > > as it depends on behavior not presently in c++ so hard to
> > > > > > > > > > show how the solution would work.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > At any rate, I don't have problems with nullable pointers or
> > > > > > > > > > dealing with pointer provenance, and I don't have spare
> > > > > > > > > > cycles to implement solutions for the latter, solutions I
> > > > > > > > > > don't need.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I worked on this some more so I've gotten a better idea of
> > > > > > > > > what they mean by pointer provenance.  I don't think will
> > > > > > > > > solve all the issues they think it will.  I can come up
> > > > > > > > > with some pretty trivial examples that will break their
> > > > > > > > > proposed solutions.  I think they are unicorn hunting here.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > One of the issues they brought up is the ABA problem.  Yet
> > > > > > > > > C/C++ has abjectly refused to support 50 year old hardware
> > > > > > > > > features that would help for some ABA issues.  Kind of hard
> > > > > > > > > to take the pointer provenance problem seriously.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Joe Seigh
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > What is the ABA problem ?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Lynn
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_problem
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Why's it a problem? Its why mutexes exist. Why would anyone expect non
> > > > > > synchronised RW memory access to work? The exact same problem occurs
> > > > > > in databases with dirty reads.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Humm... Not sure what to make of that comment. Have you ever
> > > > > experimented with lock-free algorithms?
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Why is it on topic?
> > > > 
> > > > If "lock-free algorithms" is on topic, why just turn off multi-tasking?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I am not exactly sure what you mean by your question wrt "why just turn
> > > off multi-tasking"? Just use a single thread in your program?
> > 
> > Yes, early threads are actually a single thread, where lock is not necessary.
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by "early threads". Can you clarify a bit? 
> Thanks.

By early, I mean in DOS days. There was also such thread in Linux, I think it
is called Cooperative multitasking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_multitasking

> > This remind me of a problem of the 'language'. Why we can't say:
> > 
> > thread void f(Arg arg1);      // 'thread' is keyword
> > 
> > instead of lots of "weird" syntax, if we want to talk about "language"?
> 
> C++ threading is fairly "flexible", well, imho. Wrt C11 threads its akin 
> to PThreads. Well, minus the fine grain control we have wrt the "newer" 
> standards... C++/C 11 and such. The DWCAS issue aside for a moment, its 
> not all that bad.
> 

If so, use pthread to invent what you want, in stead of too many 'weird' modifications.
All are confined in your source. it should be easier to manage and less work and errors.

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"Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-08 20:40 -0500
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 14:14 +0300
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-09 15:02 -0500
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 23:46 +0300
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 08:34 +0000
        Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 12:51 +0300
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:20 +0000
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 13:44 +0300
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:50 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 14:10 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 13:11 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 16:54 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 18:08 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 23:37 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 19:03 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 19:11 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 20:01 +0200
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-10 07:56 -0700
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 18:56 +0300
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-20 10:13 -0700
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-10 12:13 -0400
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 18:29 +0200
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-20 12:37 +0100
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-20 14:46 +0300
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-20 14:23 +0000
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 19:09 -0400
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 20:40 -0400
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 09:22 +0800
        Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 21:18 -0700
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-28 12:25 -0400
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 12:56 -0400
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-30 12:50 -0700
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 16:31 -0400
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-04 12:47 -0800
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-07 07:02 -0500
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-07 20:14 -0600
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-08 09:40 -0500
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 14:48 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-08 14:54 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:40 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:39 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-11 09:56 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-11 13:36 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 08:28 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:56 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:59 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:20 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:02 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:05 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:46 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:18 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:23 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:25 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:27 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:02 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:09 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:35 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:37 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:47 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:58 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:09 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:35 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 23:50 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:11 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:39 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:58 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:01 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:13 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:40 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 08:19 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:15 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 16:23 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:42 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 23:23 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-11-10 11:00 +0200
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:56 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:59 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 17:05 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:50 -0800
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-11-04 06:59 -0800
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-30 10:03 -0500

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