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Factoring

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  Factoring Mark Nelson <snorkelman@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 12:08 -0800
    Re: Factoring LawCounsels <LawCounsels@aol.com> - 2012-02-05 13:09 -0800
    Re: Factoring jules Gilbert <jules.stocks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 05:44 -0800
      Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-06 10:17 -0800
        Re: Factoring Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 14:05 -0800
          Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-06 16:51 -0800
            Re: Factoring Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-02-07 16:58 +0100
        Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:14 -0500
          Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-10 16:58 -0800
            Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-10 21:31 -0500
              Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-10 23:29 -0800
                Re: Factoring Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-11 01:53 -0600
                  Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 09:08 -0800
                    Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 12:46 -0500
                      Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 10:21 -0800
                        Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 11:15 -0800
                          Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 15:14 -0500
                          Re: Factoring Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-11 16:01 -0600
                            Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 14:34 -0800
                        Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 15:08 -0500
                      Re: Factoring "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-11 21:14 -0500
                Re: Factoring "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-11 21:08 -0500
                  Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 22:31 -0800
              Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-10 23:38 -0800
                Re: Factoring Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-02-11 14:50 +0100
                  Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 09:01 -0800
                  Re: Factoring Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-16 11:28 +0100
                Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 12:29 -0500
                  Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 09:49 -0800
                    Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 15:05 -0500
              Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 09:20 -0800
                Re: Factoring stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-11 14:30 -0500
                  Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-11 14:24 -0800
      Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-06 10:18 -0800
    Re: Factoring LawCounsels <LawCounsels@aol.com> - 2012-02-06 18:40 -0800
    Re: Factoring "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 07:42 -0500
      Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-07 05:40 -0800
        Re: Factoring "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 21:27 -0500
          Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-10 17:15 -0800
    Re: Factoring Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-04-15 18:13 -0700

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#1073

"stan" <smoore@exis.net> wrote in message news:u4mi09-l7m.ln1@invalid.net...
> Ernst wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>  No magic compression functions from Pi my friends.
>
> That actually goes without saying, it's pretty fundamental stuff.
>
>>  I hope saying that will stop the howling dogs of comp.compression
>> from circling.
>>
>>  You and the guys are always so knowledgeable. It's worth taking on
>> all fighters here in this Gladiator school of data compression to have
>> a chat.
>
> Again, you really misunderstand usenet; this isn't a chat room.
>
> 1. The topic is compression.
> 2. Your ideas will be judged on their merits.
> 3. Your behavior will dictate how others respond.
>
> Those aren't my ideas by the way.

    In an ideal world.
    On the other hand, throwing potatoes is mighty enjoyable.
    It teaches good dodging skills, excellent catching skills, and the 
ability to have a potato dinner if you remember that potatoes are food.

    The Renaissance Period of the Internet is sadly being forced to a close 
rather soon though.
    Soon we will all have to admit identities, be forced to be polite or be 
fined, and lie regularly under the threat of being jailed in a once free 
society.
    Folks tend to be brutally honest and wonderful with there is an element 
of mystery.
    You kids won't really appreciate this blessing until it is gone for 
good.

 

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#1072

"Ernst" <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:b4e6a68b-aa74-4041-bc0b-a901a170685e@ub4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 10, 6:31 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>> Ernst wrote:
>> > On Feb 8, 10:14 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Are you using factoring as a preprocessing step in a compression
>> >> scheme or are you simply posting off topic factoring threads in the
>> >> compressions newsgroup. From your words you claimed factoring was
>> >> attractive because is gave a longer string of bits (see below). You
>> >> never clearly stated what would happen next even when asked. So I ask
>> >> now. Does this factoring have anything to do with you compression
>> >> idea?
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > I am simply interacting for social gratification.
>>
>> I see. I was having a hard time figuring out what your plan or goal
>> could be and I figured I was just missing it. So it's good to see you
>> don't actually have a plan or goal; I wasn't "missing" anything.
>>
>> I do applaud your direct honesty in admitting your purpose is
>> trolling. It really is a time saver.
>>
>> >  If you don't like it go suck an egg.
>>
>> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
>> what usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
>> will further erode both your manners and behavior.
>>
>> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
>> to any measureable result.
>
> Fuck that.
>
>
> Pi has to repeat!~
>
> Think about this: Given probability and domain sampling of say 64 bit
> lengths but that is arbitrary,
>
> Just how many times a 64bit pattern can be expressed is bounded.
>
> Pi repeats!
>
>
> Just thinking that is.

    Here is a thought.  Take the square root of 2 for as many digits as you 
prefer.
    Copy that to a text editor with a FIND & REPLACE function.
    Now do the following.
    FIND & REPLACE (numbers to letters)
0 with A
1 with B
2 with C
3 with D
4 with E
5 with F
6 with G
7 with H
8 with I
9 with J

    Now you should have a nice alphabet soup of letters (so you can do a 
clean FIND & REPLACE with new number combos).
    Now FIND & REPLACE
A with 23
B with 1172
C with 9
D with 40
E with 5
F with 7
G with 0
H with 3
I with 8
J with 6634

    Now you can replace with different numbers (I'm not stopping you, no 
really I have no power to stop you in the slightest).  Note that the 
randomness distribution of the square root of 2 remains identical even with 
the increase of certain digits.  In fact, now it will appear to have a bias 
in favor of the extra 1's, 3's, 7's, 6's, & 0's, but the simple truth is 
that the number you have ran a FIND & REPLACE upon remains just as random as 
the original square root of 2.

    Reversing my suggested FIND & REPLACE routine will simply make my 
swapout revert the new number set.
    Now what happens if you run this routine on another "random" number set? 
You know that you can revert a number to 1 only if you have a sequence of 
1172, any other shorter sequence or differing sequence will yield incorrect 
results.
 

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#1075

On Feb 11, 6:08 pm, "George Johnson" <matri...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Ernst" <Ernst_B...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:b4e6a68b-aa74-4041-bc0b-a901a170685e@ub4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 10, 6:31 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> >> Ernst wrote:
> >> > On Feb 8, 10:14 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Are you using factoring as a preprocessing step in a compression
> >> >> scheme or are you simply posting off topic factoring threads in the
> >> >> compressions newsgroup. From your words you claimed factoring was
> >> >> attractive because is gave a longer string of bits (see below). You
> >> >> never clearly stated what would happen next even when asked. So I ask
> >> >> now. Does this factoring have anything to do with you compression
> >> >> idea?
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> > I am simply interacting for social gratification.
>
> >> I see. I was having a hard time figuring out what your plan or goal
> >> could be and I figured I was just missing it. So it's good to see you
> >> don't actually have a plan or goal; I wasn't "missing" anything.
>
> >> I do applaud your direct honesty in admitting your purpose is
> >> trolling. It really is a time saver.
>
> >> >  If you don't like it go suck an egg.
>
> >> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
> >> what usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
> >> will further erode both your manners and behavior.
>
> >> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
> >> to any measureable result.
>
> > Fuck that.
>
> > Pi has to repeat!~
>
> > Think about this: Given probability and domain sampling of say 64 bit
> > lengths but that is arbitrary,
>
> > Just how many times a 64bit pattern can be expressed is bounded.
>
> > Pi repeats!
>
> > Just thinking that is.
>
>     Here is a thought.  Take the square root of 2 for as many digits as you
> prefer.
>     Copy that to a text editor with a FIND & REPLACE function.
>     Now do the following.
>     FIND & REPLACE (numbers to letters)
> 0 with A
> 1 with B
> 2 with C
> 3 with D
> 4 with E
> 5 with F
> 6 with G
> 7 with H
> 8 with I
> 9 with J
>
>     Now you should have a nice alphabet soup of letters (so you can do a
> clean FIND & REPLACE with new number combos).
>     Now FIND & REPLACE
> A with 23
> B with 1172
> C with 9
> D with 40
> E with 5
> F with 7
> G with 0
> H with 3
> I with 8
> J with 6634
>
>     Now you can replace with different numbers (I'm not stopping you, no
> really I have no power to stop you in the slightest).  Note that the
> randomness distribution of the square root of 2 remains identical even with
> the increase of certain digits.  In fact, now it will appear to have a bias
> in favor of the extra 1's, 3's, 7's, 6's, & 0's, but the simple truth is
> that the number you have ran a FIND & REPLACE upon remains just as random as
> the original square root of 2.
>
>     Reversing my suggested FIND & REPLACE routine will simply make my
> swapout revert the new number set.
>     Now what happens if you run this routine on another "random" number set?
> You know that you can revert a number to 1 only if you have a sequence of
> 1172, any other shorter sequence or differing sequence will yield incorrect
> results.

My Bad...

 I have not followed your random example yet I can believe it from
reading.

 I thought to share the code I adapted to generate a 999 hex digit
data set.

 Here is what I have.  No verification to Pi has been made. No
warranty. Data is simply an expression of my modifications. It is not
fit for any purpose and therefore do not use it unless you accept all
responsibility for any and all results.

Start
------------
// Code from tinyPi  gjerrit meinsma <g.meinsma@math.utwente.nl>
// Start tinyPi adaption
//999 hex digits
 x=0;String[0]=0;
  for(;a[j=q=0]+=2,--k;)
  for(p=1+2*k;j<1000;q=a[j]*k+q%p*t,a[j++]=q/p)
 { k!=j>2?:sprintf(&String[0],"%.3d",a[j-2]%t+q/p/t);
  if(String[0] != 0) { Data_Set[x++] = atoi(String); String[0]=0;  }
 }
for(y=0;y<x;y+=3){ sprintf(&String[y],"%.3X",Data_Set[y]); }
printf("%s\n",String);
// End tinyPi adaption

=======
End

999 digit hex string :

08D24D1CE1170C51773CE13311E2741563D62012872610E71980750662092843BA3C43CF1BE28830F0C92881CC1C60D510411100624C20833D2CB37C00B2242093B726110E24F0BA3A406904A3C215F2D43AA3B52A129001518B0BE35C3020B02F03321952381073112F50AD2D13851AE24931810201308136009F3063C00D33E60312DB06001815A2820FD0230BC0032F02151A429D2561AC2DB35F3133BD30C0E20012630D83AA0C935F3A833B12D12D3E32570F911B2030F22B72152D704B2F23AB03C2BD00900C1602A72963B638B01D27A3322CE36327217A35C19E23128605E1F109A3A118C0C628B2623731822CF2C03C13BC10A3AC3E01BF35833718D0AF1010E83AD01F2B21EC2B93332F03DF1771C12900FD2E93DC3E40511CC0121A101B31514139D0AD0922232A20232B33043110C52AD34C3CC29A28B22211922133C0B024439B22206B2BB0910022210171BE29B0240191523333E529A29E36E20A36829E23700803920039E3780D112A02D0CC0CF24A0763591E33AC3180EB31E32628F3220602661F52992E52AF12532C2A003908D28D05D36D22032900F3692333DB1B120B32B2FF3200BC33B3D429E0BC31E38B0D601816D0052B220B0491322890E636D3AC1C536432B0C000529008E26B12222F1020CB10535D03C3263473AC3273A51670BA3AE1021330F02641851F7


 Ernst

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#1051

> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
> what Usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
> will further erode both your manners and behaviour.
>
> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
> to any measurable result.

Hey Shit head, when you pay my bills I worry what you think.

 The topic is Transcendentals'

NOTE: I am sick of the people that dog me.

 Here to learn and sharing what is best.

Back on Pi.. has to repeat based on sample length.. I have to be
correct.

Truth ?

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#1052

On 11.02.2012 08:38, Ernst wrote:
>
>> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
>> what Usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
>> will further erode both your manners and behaviour.
>>
>> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
>> to any measurable result.
>
> Hey Shit head, when you pay my bills I worry what you think.
>
>   The topic is Transcendentals'

No, the topic is compression.

> NOTE: I am sick of the people that dog me.

Then, I wonder, why do you make the posts you doß

>   Here to learn and sharing what is best.
>
> Back on Pi.. has to repeat based on sample length.. I have to be
> correct.
>
> Truth ?

Wrong. Pi is transcendental, which implies that it is not rational, 
which implies that it never repeats. The fact that Pi is irrational is
not hard to prove, it requires only elementary mathematics. Here is a 
pointer to a book (yes, the stuff on paper!) that provides it:

"Aigner, Ziegler: The BOOK of Proofs" ( <-- actually, a pretty good 
book, too)

Greetings,
	Thomas

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#1053

On Feb 11, 5:50 am, Thomas Richter <t...@math.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
> On 11.02.2012 08:38, Ernst wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
> >> what Usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
> >> will further erode both your manners and behaviour.
>
> >> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
> >> to any measurable result.
>
> > Hey Shit head, when you pay my bills I worry what you think.
>
> >   The topic is Transcendentals'
>
> No, the topic is compression.
>
> > NOTE: I am sick of the people that dog me.
>
> Then, I wonder, why do you make the posts you doß
>
> >   Here to learn and sharing what is best.
>
> > Back on Pi.. has to repeat based on sample length.. I have to be
> > correct.
>
> > Truth ?
>
> Wrong. Pi is transcendental, which implies that it is not rational,
> which implies that it never repeats. The fact that Pi is irrational is
> not hard to prove, it requires only elementary mathematics. Here is a
> pointer to a book (yes, the stuff on paper!) that provides it:
>
> "Aigner, Ziegler: The BOOK of Proofs" ( <-- actually, a pretty good
> book, too)
>
> Greetings,
>         Thomas

Tom read again for a sample length any given word size has to repeat
value.

 Thanks a whole bunch fellahs.  As for me needing to work
transcendental numbers my interest is way more practical.

 alrighty-then I see the file backup hit a snag and what should have
been done now will take all of today.

 Still open to input on C code for computing Pi but I do have time to
look again today.
 I think I will see if that tinyPi.c will actually work.  It's written
in a funny way to be small but I wonder if C will allow that sort of
thing.

 Thanks for the input.  Very helpful.

 There is telling how this idea using Trans' will turn out.  No claims
here except that I will try.

Ernst

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#1087

Thomas Richter wrote:

> Pi is transcendental, which implies that it is not rational,
> which implies that it never repeats.

Other references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_that_%CF%80_is_irrational
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindemann%E2%80%93Weierstrass_theorem#Transcendence_of_e_and_.CF.80

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#1057

Ernst wrote:
>
>> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
>> what Usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
>> will further erode both your manners and behaviour.
>>
>> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
>> to any measurable result.
>
> Hey Shit head, when you pay my bills I worry what you think.

Not that the prediction was difficult, but I did expect it might take longer.

>  The topic is Transcendentals'

Actually the topic is compression.

> Back on Pi.. has to repeat based on sample length.. I have to be
> correct.

Or what? Sadly, you're walking a very well worn path, PI has
fascinated for centuries but it  won't help with compression.

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#1059

On Feb 11, 9:29 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
>
> >> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
> >> what Usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
> >> will further erode both your manners and behaviour.
>
> >> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
> >> to any measurable result.
>
> > Hey Shit head, when you pay my bills I worry what you think.
>
> Not that the prediction was difficult, but I did expect it might take longer.
>
> >  The topic is Transcendentals'
>
> Actually the topic is compression.
>
> > Back on Pi.. has to repeat based on sample length.. I have to be
> > correct.
>
> Or what? Sadly, you're walking a very well worn path, PI has
> fascinated for centuries but it  won't help with compression.

Look at yourself.
Look at the complete effort.

 You are upset because there is a mystery involved and for all the
prodding the best you can do is do a witchdoctor dance predicting my
defeat.

 Let me make the perfectly clear.  I am interested in Pi or other
irrationals simply for bit patterns and nothing else.  So I can use Pi
or e or many others and I can use 2/3 and all sorts of others.

 As to what it is a part of?  At this point nothing because I am just
outlining the project.  Once I work a while on things I'll have a
better idea of if it is wroth the effort to code or not.

 Here is a soft and sincere paragraph below.

 Most people that frequent this forum and post have the pattern of do
the math first and write the code second. It works and it's
reasonable. Other folks like myself have since day one written the
code and work on the math aspect. I use C language as my "math" so my
point of view is on the level of programming it and proving or
disproving the concept I was interested in.
 So that is me friend.  I am a hacker-type and I am rather good at it
after 20 years.

So for all concerned I will use the bit patterns as a data set.
 I hope that meets with your approval.

 Also I am sure since I code first and work the math as I go for what
is needed that I will once again bother you and others and I simply
don't care but if you do send money!


Ernst

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#1065

Ernst wrote:

>> Or what? Sadly, you're walking a very well worn path, PI has
>> fascinated for centuries but it  won't help with compression.
>
> Look at yourself.
> Look at the complete effort.
>
>  You are upset because there is a mystery involved and for all the
> prodding the best you can do is do a witchdoctor dance predicting my
> defeat.

You misunderstand, I am not upset. Second, if math seems like magic
and witch doctoring to you I can only suggest some reading.

>  Let me make the perfectly clear.  I am interested in Pi or other
> irrationals simply for bit patterns and nothing else.  So I can use Pi
> or e or many others and I can use 2/3 and all sorts of others.
>
>  As to what it is a part of?  At this point nothing because I am just
> outlining the project.  Once I work a while on things I'll have a
> better idea of if it is wroth the effort to code or not.

Seems like this is unrelated to compression if I have it correct?

>  Here is a soft and sincere paragraph below.
>
>  Most people that frequent this forum and post have the pattern of do
> the math first and write the code second.

I can see how yo might get that idea, but I find that is not generally
true. I dare say most here have experimented with ideas without
developing a complete formal math analysis before starting. That's
hardly how it ever works. Most of the time math is brought in because
there is an existing and large body of math relevant to
compression. Many ideas have been tried and reinvented in the past and
the record exists. Awareness of that record allows the knowledgeable
to avoid wasting time on well worn dead ends. 

I mentioned this before; compression and math involve a finite number
of things and a finite number of possible operations. Given a
restricted universe it's possible to consider ALL possibilities in
many situations. IOW it's possible for math to prove some things will
never happen with no possible exceptions. To get around that you must
introduce new things (going beyond 1's and 0's or even numbers) or
inventing and precisely defining new operations.

> So for all concerned I will use the bit patterns as a data set.
>  I hope that meets with your approval.

See above.

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#1056

On Feb 10, 6:31 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > On Feb 8, 10:14 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>
> >> Are you using factoring as a preprocessing step in a compression
> >> scheme or are you simply posting off topic factoring threads in the
> >> compressions newsgroup. From your words you claimed factoring was
> >> attractive because is gave a longer string of bits (see below). You
> >> never clearly stated what would happen next even when asked. So I ask
> >> now. Does this factoring have anything to do with you compression
> >> idea?
>
> <snip>
>
> > I am simply interacting for social gratification.
>
> I see. I was having a hard time figuring out what your plan or goal
> could be and I figured I was just missing it. So it's good to see you
> don't actually have a plan or goal; I wasn't "missing" anything.
>
> I do applaud your direct honesty in admitting your purpose is
> trolling. It really is a time saver.
>
> >  If you don't like it go suck an egg.
>
> I'll go out on a limb with a prediction. Your lack of understanding of
> what usenet is and is not will lead to your continued frustration and
> will further erode both your manners and behavior.
>
> I further predict that your barking orders at people will never lead
> to any measureable result.

I predict you will die and no one here will ask where you went.
Maybe someone will say you passed but who ever does will be attacked
as a Troll.

 Where I get these bad manners is from here in comp.compression over
the last decade Stan.

 This is a new strategy to get pas the folks that just have to fuck
with people in a smart way.

 Like I said being educated doesn't exempt one from being human and
smart people like a fight like anyone else except smart people will
use their intelligence to hurt others and act like they did nothing
wrong thinking being smart is all they need.

 Well to all those who feel it is their right to mess with people get
use to the idea that for a while i am trying a new approach here for
my 11th year of interacting here.

 If we are all tired of it maybe we all will stop the crap?  Right?
I have given years of following the "rules" here and you know what?
They are bent and twisted to fit the occasion.  If someone is seen as
undesirable it's a party fro the rest of you guys. Well Guess what?
Those that don't take the time to phrase their issues in a general way
about topic and turn it personal get personal back.

 So you choose to modify your behaviour dude because no one can change
the world but you can change yourself.

 As for what happens to me or why i think as I do it is none of your
business get it?

 So again I have a pile of bills here and you are welcome to them if
you want to show you care.

Ernst

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#1064

Ernst wrote:

> I predict you will die and no one here will ask where you went.
> Maybe someone will say you passed but who ever does will be attacked
> as a Troll.

Your concern and threat noted appropriately.

>  Where I get these bad manners is from here in comp.compression over
> the last decade Stan.

The devil made me do it. Actually you are solely responsible for your
behavior. Accepting responsibility is a choice.

<snip>

>  Well to all those who feel it is their right to mess with people get
> use to the idea that for a while i am trying a new approach here for
> my 11th year of interacting here.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results?

>  As for what happens to me or why i think as I do it is none of your
> business get it?

You misunderstand, my presence and interest here is in compression; I
don't care about you. You continue to take things personally. I've
asked you to clarify your ideas and plans regarding compression with
no response. The attacks you perceive don't exist. On the other hand
your attempts to provoke or engage in off topic idle chit chat are
doomed.

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#1070

On Feb 11, 11:30 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > I predict you will die and no one here will ask where you went.
> > Maybe someone will say you passed but who ever does will be attacked
> > as a Troll.
>
> Your concern and threat noted appropriately.
>
> >  Where I get these bad manners is from here in comp.compression over
> > the last decade Stan.
>
> The devil made me do it. Actually you are solely responsible for your
> behavior. Accepting responsibility is a choice.
>
> <snip>
>
> >  Well to all those who feel it is their right to mess with people get
> > use to the idea that for a while i am trying a new approach here for
> > my 11th year of interacting here.
>
> Doing the same thing and expecting different results?
>
> >  As for what happens to me or why i think as I do it is none of your
> > business get it?
>
> You misunderstand, my presence and interest here is in compression; I
> don't care about you. You continue to take things personally. I've
> asked you to clarify your ideas and plans regarding compression with
> no response. The attacks you perceive don't exist. On the other hand
> your attempts to provoke or engage in off topic idle chit chat are
> doomed.

Yes I am taking it personal.  I am trying a different approach for my
11th year but I already told you that.

 The reason for my visit at this point is to drop the request of code
examples.
I have adapted tinyPi to suit my current needs.

 Interesting algorithm.  I certainly don't think of programming that
way.  It's a head scratcher that also seems so tight it doesn't like
change. Eh whoo...

 So Stan the man why don't we get a pint and talk things over.. I bet
once you accept me as a human being your whole perspective will
change.

 Okay friends.  I have nothing further on Transcendentals' of the ilk.

Thanks

 Ernst

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#984

On Feb 6, 5:44 am, jules Gilbert <jules.sto...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Factoring and compression are as closely related as, say, fish and
> bicycling.  These are utterly and completely different topics.

 Not even by entanglement>?  Just funnin here..

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#987

On Feb 5,>
> The interesting data that we want to compress is based on human
> language and perception - even executable code is based on human
> language. And in that domain, factoring and combinations don't produce
> useful results, nor is it likely they will. The data domain is kind of
> more fractally than arithmeticy.
>
> From time to time there might be crossovers, but AFAIK nobody has
> really found anything interesting down these paths.
>
> If we were trying to compress, say, data generated by automota with a
> mathematical bent, it might be a completely different story. But we're
> not.
>
> If someone found a way to transform one domain to the other, then we
> might really see something. But it seems like a pretty big problem to
> get there.
>
> - Mark


Mark:

I think this is the 'secret sauce' Thomas enquired about how the
Russian monopolised English text compression prizes... .likely he
attained crossover from 'fractal' to 'arithmeticity', simple enough
for him to distant from this if not

Think this is not a 'big problem' ....may explore  co-develop this
with you,  should his 'secret technique' NOT already utilises  'domain
crossover'

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#991

"Mark Nelson" <snorkelman@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:14e30a66-1765-4443-b421-968cba47e2ba@i18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> For some reason Google Groups stopped sending me daily digests from
> comp.compression. The fact that it took me a month to notice is
> interesting all in itself.
>
> Ernst is working on trying to factor the million digit number.
>
> As I've mentioned before, if the million digit number just happened to
> be prime, it would probably result in a win for someone. The prime
> number theorem says that the number of primes below 10^1000000 is
> 4.3*10^999993.
>
> This means the prime can be denoted by a number that saves six+ digits
> over the million digit file.
>
> Feed that number into a computational engine that has two
> instructions: 1) calculate prime n, 2) print result
>
> And you have defeated the million digit file by four bytes. I would
> definitely count it as a win.
>
> But this unlikely result brings up the more important question: why do
> attempts to use factoring, combinatorial techniques, and mathematical
> series inevitably result in derision in this NG?
>
> Mostly because they have no track record. And they have no track
> record because they don't usually produce useful results.
>
> The interesting data that we want to compress is based on human
> language and perception - even executable code is based on human
> language. And in that domain, factoring and combinations don't produce
> useful results, nor is it likely they will. The data domain is kind of
> more fractally than arithmeticy.
>
> From time to time there might be crossovers, but AFAIK nobody has
> really found anything interesting down these paths.
>
> If we were trying to compress, say, data generated by automota with a
> mathematical bent, it might be a completely different story. But we're
> not.
>
> If someone found a way to transform one domain to the other, then we
> might really see something. But it seems like a pretty big problem to
> get there.
>
> - Mark

    Well, to be fair.  The interesting truth is that once a not-too-clever 
mathematician latches onto a concept like a pitbull dog they usually want 
some payoff for all of their computation efforts.  The proper term (one I 
invented quite a while back without seeking fame for it), is "EMOTIONAL 
INVESTMENT".  It is the same psychological core reason for why gamblers 
obsessively bet themselves to poverty seeking to regain money lost foolishly 
(emotions are ruling their brain rather than cold logical deduction).

    It may not help the fields of Data Compression (usually never given how 
slow this field progresses), but it oftentimes will find applications in a 
variety of Number Theory fields like Data Encryption (the inverse enemy of 
Data Compression to a degree). It can help on noise signal processing 
sometimes or pop up as a new Error Correction Coding.  You never really know 
until the inventor or discoverer has enough lateral thinking skills to 
convert a concept failure into a reshaped concept win.

    Once you get past the obvious problems of Escape Characters and code 
function indexing costs, the mental discipline of Data Compression becomes 
the root of many useful ideas which just need a bit of coaxing to convert to 
profitable programs.  However, you cannot reach many of the right states of 
mind without going past the newbie trial & fail stages and the heavy 
research into what others have done.  Also you should never forget the 
far-too-true phrase, "You cannot fix Stupidity." You can help people as much 
as you prefer, but you can never correct their personal genetic limitation 
on intellectual capacity with mere words and tutoring alone.
 

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#994

On Feb 7, 4:42 am, "George Johnson" <matri...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Mark Nelson" <snorkel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:14e30a66-1765-4443-b421-968cba47e2ba@i18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > For some reason Google Groups stopped sending me daily digests from
> > comp.compression. The fact that it took me a month to notice is
> > interesting all in itself.
>
> > Ernst is working on trying to factor the million digit number.
>
> > As I've mentioned before, if the million digit number just happened to
> > be prime, it would probably result in a win for someone. The prime
> > number theorem says that the number of primes below 10^1000000 is
> > 4.3*10^999993.
>
> > This means the prime can be denoted by a number that saves six+ digits
> > over the million digit file.
>
> > Feed that number into a computational engine that has two
> > instructions: 1) calculate prime n, 2) print result
>
> > And you have defeated the million digit file by four bytes. I would
> > definitely count it as a win.
>
> > But this unlikely result brings up the more important question: why do
> > attempts to use factoring, combinatorial techniques, and mathematical
> > series inevitably result in derision in this NG?
>
> > Mostly because they have no track record. And they have no track
> > record because they don't usually produce useful results.
>
> > The interesting data that we want to compress is based on human
> > language and perception - even executable code is based on human
> > language. And in that domain, factoring and combinations don't produce
> > useful results, nor is it likely they will. The data domain is kind of
> > more fractally than arithmeticy.
>
> > From time to time there might be crossovers, but AFAIK nobody has
> > really found anything interesting down these paths.
>
> > If we were trying to compress, say, data generated by automota with a
> > mathematical bent, it might be a completely different story. But we're
> > not.
>
> > If someone found a way to transform one domain to the other, then we
> > might really see something. But it seems like a pretty big problem to
> > get there.
>
> > - Mark
>
>     Well, to be fair.  The interesting truth is that once a not-too-clever
> mathematician latches onto a concept like a pitbull dog they usually want
> some payoff for all of their computation efforts.  The proper term (one I
> invented quite a while back without seeking fame for it), is "EMOTIONAL
> INVESTMENT".  It is the same psychological core reason for why gamblers
> obsessively bet themselves to poverty seeking to regain money lost foolishly
> (emotions are ruling their brain rather than cold logical deduction).
>
>     It may not help the fields of Data Compression (usually never given how
> slow this field progresses), but it oftentimes will find applications in a
> variety of Number Theory fields like Data Encryption (the inverse enemy of
> Data Compression to a degree). It can help on noise signal processing
> sometimes or pop up as a new Error Correction Coding.  You never really know
> until the inventor or discoverer has enough lateral thinking skills to
> convert a concept failure into a reshaped concept win.
>
>     Once you get past the obvious problems of Escape Characters and code
> function indexing costs, the mental discipline of Data Compression becomes
> the root of many useful ideas which just need a bit of coaxing to convert to
> profitable programs.  However, you cannot reach many of the right states of
> mind without going past the newbie trial & fail stages and the heavy
> research into what others have done.  Also you should never forget the
> far-too-true phrase, "You cannot fix Stupidity." You can help people as much
> as you prefer, but you can never correct their personal genetic limitation
> on intellectual capacity with mere words and tutoring alone.


 There can be other reasons to seek answers than money or emotion.

 There is a beauty in the Universe to behold and that itself is a
reward.

Just a thought.

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#999

"Ernst" <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:5f881966-aa08-4362-a5f5-b606ac8c0d17@vd8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

> There can be other reasons to seek answers than money or emotion.
>
> There is a beauty in the Universe to behold and that itself is a
> reward.
>
> Just a thought.

    No arguments there, but unless you grow your own food on tax-free land, 
hunt your own food, and have a clean water source, then somehow the money to 
run the electricity + Internet connection has to appear.

    Many people who tried, "Living on Love" alone tended to starve to death.
    The people who tried, "Laying on My Back Moaning and Pretending Love" 
tended to come down with a number of rather unpleasant sexually-transmitted 
diseases with rather painful dripping sores.
    The folks who tried, "Living Off A Spouse (in exchange for occasional 
sex, perpetual whiny nagging, squandering money recklessly, and buying new 
woman shoes every week)" tended to end up rather hated and no better off if 
society was not geared to illegally financially-enslaving a man long after 
the Marriage Contract was rendered null & void.

    Curiosity is great. I believe most folks posting here are addicted to 
learning (well at least READING about) new things regularly.  There is a 
whole universe out there that needs comprehension and boundless curiosity is 
the only way to achieve that goal at a reasonable pace. It never hurts too 
much to point good folks in the right directions for good answers.  Be very 
wary of the creeps that seek easy knowledge without the efforts to 
understand that knowledge.  Helping a person unfit to be a doctor pass 
Medical School exams means that in the future the odds are very high that 
many innocent people will be subject to an unfit physician's dangerous care 
practices with a decent probability of easily preventable premature deaths 
of many good people as a result of a far-too-helpful intelligent (but not 
wise) person's meddling.

    Thankfully the field of Data Compression rarely leads to mass-deaths of 
good people as gross mathematical incompetence & inept programming tends to 
guarantee zero financial success. This did not stop the Microsoft (too many 
turds in the soup pot) Corporation from having their software lock up the 
systems on an USA aircraft carrier though.

Terry Pratchett "The Importance of Being Amazed about Absolutely Everything"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2FZ_0d3yEI

'Belief' as according to Death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4

HEX-Hogfather
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3tLnlixkY

    A bit of one of our world's generation of great Philosopher-Comedians.
    Be wary of what you wish for and unleash upon the world.
 

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#1047

On Feb 7, 6:27 pm, "George Johnson" <matri...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Ernst" <Ernst_B...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:5f881966-aa08-4362-a5f5-b606ac8c0d17@vd8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > There can be other reasons to seek answers than money or emotion.
>
> > There is a beauty in the Universe to behold and that itself is a
> > reward.
>
> > Just a thought.
>
>     No arguments there, but unless you grow your own food on tax-free land,
> hunt your own food, and have a clean water source, then somehow the money to
> run the electricity + Internet connection has to appear.
>
>     Many people who tried, "Living on Love" alone tended to starve to death.
>     The people who tried, "Laying on My Back Moaning and Pretending Love"
> tended to come down with a number of rather unpleasant sexually-transmitted
> diseases with rather painful dripping sores.
>     The folks who tried, "Living Off A Spouse (in exchange for occasional
> sex, perpetual whiny nagging, squandering money recklessly, and buying new
> woman shoes every week)" tended to end up rather hated and no better off if
> society was not geared to illegally financially-enslaving a man long after
> the Marriage Contract was rendered null & void.
>
>     Curiosity is great. I believe most folks posting here are addicted to
> learning (well at least READING about) new things regularly.  There is a
> whole universe out there that needs comprehension and boundless curiosity is
> the only way to achieve that goal at a reasonable pace. It never hurts too
> much to point good folks in the right directions for good answers.  Be very
> wary of the creeps that seek easy knowledge without the efforts to
> understand that knowledge.  Helping a person unfit to be a doctor pass
> Medical School exams means that in the future the odds are very high that
> many innocent people will be subject to an unfit physician's dangerous care
> practices with a decent probability of easily preventable premature deaths
> of many good people as a result of a far-too-helpful intelligent (but not
> wise) person's meddling.
>
>     Thankfully the field of Data Compression rarely leads to mass-deaths of
> good people as gross mathematical incompetence & inept programming tends to
> guarantee zero financial success. This did not stop the Microsoft (too many
> turds in the soup pot) Corporation from having their software lock up the
> systems on an USA aircraft carrier though.
>
> Terry Pratchett "The Importance of Being Amazed about Absolutely Everything"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2FZ_0d3yEI
>
> 'Belief' as according to Deathhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4
>
> HEX-Hogfatherhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3tLnlixkY
>
>     A bit of one of our world's generation of great Philosopher-Comedians.
>     Be wary of what you wish for and unleash upon the world.

Cool.. Being isolated while I ponder the depths of what infinities are
obviously all about it's good to get the small social interaction when
it comes to the hobbies.

 I am not befuddled and trying to find a path.

 So I have to look into Pi now.

 Here is what I have seen that I an considering adapting to generate
Pi in Hex base.

http://www.boo.net/~jasonp/pigjerr

 It is strange in that I don't get the use of main(j) can the main
call itself recursively?

I just started looking at generating trans..  I don't intend to
philosophize Transcendental numbers but the more I thought about the
Torrent replacement project the more I thought I could index things in
a way that could be smaller than a source.
 This is a theory I am now ready to explore.  It is data compression
related so comp.compression folks can sleep easy tonight as I am not
violating the chastity of this forum

 So uh..  I can save myself the reinventing the wheel with some C code
that generates Pi to N hex digits. Any C-code links with no strings
attached?

Thanks.

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#1255

On Sunday, February 5, 2012 12:08:02 PM UTC-8, Mark Nelson wrote:
> For some reason Google Groups stopped sending me daily digests from
> comp.compression. The fact that it took me a month to notice is
> interesting all in itself.
> 
> Ernst is working on trying to factor the million digit number.
> 
> As I've mentioned before, if the million digit number just happened to
> be prime, it would probably result in a win for someone. The prime
> number theorem says that the number of primes below 10^1000000 is
> 4.3*10^999993.
> 
> This means the prime can be denoted by a number that saves six+ digits
> over the million digit file.
> 
> Feed that number into a computational engine that has two
> instructions: 1) calculate prime n, 2) print result
> 
> And you have defeated the million digit file by four bytes. I would
> definitely count it as a win.
> 
> But this unlikely result brings up the more important question: why do
> attempts to use factoring, combinatorial techniques, and mathematical
> series inevitably result in derision in this NG?
> 
> Mostly because they have no track record. And they have no track
> record because they don't usually produce useful results.
> 
> The interesting data that we want to compress is based on human
> language and perception - even executable code is based on human
> language. And in that domain, factoring and combinations don't produce
> useful results, nor is it likely they will. The data domain is kind of
> more fractally than arithmeticy.
> 
> From time to time there might be crossovers, but AFAIK nobody has
> really found anything interesting down these paths.
> 
> If we were trying to compress, say, data generated by automota with a
> mathematical bent, it might be a completely different story. But we're
> not.
> 
> If someone found a way to transform one domain to the other, then we
> might really see something. But it seems like a pretty big problem to
> get there.
> 
> - Mark


 Swell, we all have lapses and we all thing we advance because of something..


 So are you back in the saddle or is this proof you are still a bit delayed?  :)

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