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Re: Random data compression

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TheVoiid <dioveht@home.nl> writes:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 3:35:55 PM UTC+2, youlto...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit
>> streams. For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin
>> tosses?", where the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No
>> matter what you bet, on average, you'll win half the time, so you
>> will break even", which I consider defeatist since if you play
>> 'unlimited double up', the outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win,
>> and tails, you break even". Essentially, you don't need to know what
>> the outcome of next toss will be, only that there will be a next
>> toss.
>> 
>> Is there somewhere that folks sill discuss these things? 
>> 
>> James
>
> You can discuss it at: https://encode.su/

Why not discuss it here?

Like most Usenet newsgroups, activity here has fallen off, but someone
could still start an interesting discussion.

I'll note that encode.su links to the FAQ for this newsgroup:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part1/section-8.html

QUOTE:
    9.1 Introduction

    It is mathematically impossible to create a program compressing without loss
    *all* files by at least one bit (see below and also item 73 in part 2 of this
    FAQ). Yet from time to time some people claim to have invented a new algorithm
    for doing so. Such algorithms are claimed to compress random data and to be
    applicable recursively, that is, applying the compressor to the compressed
    output of the previous run, possibly multiple times. Fantastic compression
    ratios of over 100:1 on random data are claimed to be actually obtained.

    Such claims inevitably generate a lot of activity on comp.compression, which
    can last for several months. Large bursts of activity were generated by WEB
    Technologies and by Jules Gilbert. Premier Research Corporation (with a
    compressor called MINC) made only a brief appearance but came back later with a
    Web page at http://www.pacminc.com.  The Hyper Space method invented by David
    C. James is another contender with a patent obtained in July 96. Another large
    burst occured in Dec 97 and Jan 98: Matthew Burch <apoc@pipeline.com> applied
    for a patent in Dec 97, but publicly admitted a few days later that his method
    was flawed; he then posted several dozen messages in a few days about another
    magic method based on primes, and again ended up admitting that his new method
    was flawed. (Usually people disappear from comp.compression and appear again 6
    months or a year later, rather than admitting their error.)

    Other people have also claimed incredible compression ratios, but the programs
    (OWS, WIC) were quickly shown to be fake (not compressing at all). This topic
    is covered in item 10 of this FAQ.
END QUOTE

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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Thread

Random data compression James Youlton <youltonjames@gmail.com> - 2022-10-20 06:35 -0700
  Re: Random data compression TheVoiid <dioveht@home.nl> - 2022-10-21 02:32 -0700
    Re: Random data compression Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-10-21 12:48 -0700
  Re: Random data compression Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2022-10-26 22:24 +0300
    Re: Random data compression James Youlton <youltonjames@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 08:09 -0800
      Re: Random data compression Mihai Cartoaje <mcartoaje@gmail.com> - 2023-02-27 03:28 -0800

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