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Groups > comp.arch > #111589 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-05-10 11:38 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-05-20 18:31 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 219 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.arch
Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-05-10 11:38 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-11 00:04 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-11 13:59 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-11 07:47 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-11 23:46 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-12 00:30 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:19 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-12 02:03 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:34 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-05-12 08:05 +0200
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-12 08:41 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:39 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-12 17:14 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:35 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-12 21:50 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-13 03:03 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-12 23:25 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-13 08:39 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-13 12:55 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-13 07:40 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-13 08:12 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-13 08:33 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-14 00:18 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-13 17:49 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-18 01:35 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-18 14:10 -1000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-18 18:41 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-19 21:46 +0100
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-19 14:58 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 11:22 +0100
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-20 16:38 -1000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-20 20:49 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-19 00:18 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-19 01:13 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-19 23:33 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-20 00:36 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 00:16 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-20 10:49 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 12:42 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-20 11:35 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:29 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 20:08 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 03:46 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-20 20:58 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-21 12:25 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-21 12:47 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-21 17:19 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-21 15:06 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-21 22:19 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 01:51 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2025-05-22 12:12 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 12:39 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 22:41 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 18:36 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-23 13:20 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-23 14:18 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2025-05-23 12:34 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 11:39 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-23 14:21 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-23 15:17 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-23 09:57 -0700
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-23 17:43 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 19:26 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-24 15:25 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 12:32 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-24 20:36 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-25 00:45 +0300
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 16:54 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-05-26 22:09 +0200
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-24 21:07 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 17:26 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-25 20:24 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-25 20:47 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 15:51 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-25 23:23 +0000
Re: recycling "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 17:17 -0500
Re: recycling George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-25 02:24 -0400
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 10:53 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-23 17:03 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 12:34 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 00:38 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-24 16:57 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 14:24 -0500
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-05-30 09:20 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-24 20:38 +0000
Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 16:45 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-05-22 11:32 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-20 20:54 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 05:39 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-20 23:42 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 02:08 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 13:39 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:57 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-14 13:31 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-14 18:01 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-14 18:12 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-05-14 18:45 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-23 00:18 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-23 05:35 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 01:09 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-23 12:36 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 11:29 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-24 03:17 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-23 08:28 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-23 17:03 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-24 09:23 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-25 18:05 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-25 12:13 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-25 19:36 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 21:23 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-26 17:42 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 11:16 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-26 14:58 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-26 19:19 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 21:52 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-27 08:34 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-27 07:34 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-27 16:19 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-27 20:57 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-28 07:47 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-28 14:50 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 08:48 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 08:46 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:08 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 09:20 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:52 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 10:15 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 14:16 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 13:37 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-28 22:28 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 16:00 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-29 14:23 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-29 09:56 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-29 01:54 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:32 -0400
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 13:36 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:26 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 20:31 +0000
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 13:45 -0700
Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:24 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-25 19:16 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-25 16:27 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-26 03:01 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-25 23:58 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-26 15:36 -1000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-26 20:14 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-26 07:13 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 07:31 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-26 19:20 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 14:12 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 01:42 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-29 20:25 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 05:53 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-31 12:53 -1000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-02 18:04 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-03 07:14 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 15:21 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 06:46 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-26 16:06 +0300
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 16:30 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 13:00 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 13:04 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 14:15 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 15:20 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 15:40 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 16:02 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 16:07 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-27 18:40 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:28 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:42 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-29 05:10 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 15:31 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-30 01:17 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 15:33 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:28 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-26 23:12 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:32 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 19:00 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-27 09:43 +0200
Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-25 20:55 +0000
Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-26 00:07 -0400
Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 00:59 -0500
Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 07:13 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-23 22:19 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-23 20:51 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-17 23:57 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 21:33 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-20 00:43 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-20 13:53 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 13:19 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-20 16:06 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-20 22:11 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-05-20 19:34 -0500
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:00 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:34 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-20 21:30 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:39 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 03:41 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-21 12:09 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-21 15:30 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:45 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-21 07:06 -1000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2025-05-21 17:32 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-21 07:05 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:48 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-21 08:23 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-21 14:08 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:49 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-22 17:34 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-22 17:42 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-23 01:54 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 22:42 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-22 23:47 -0400
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:32 +0000
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:29 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:04 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 16:49 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 18:04 -0700
Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:31 -0700
Page 5 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 11 Next page →
| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-24 00:38 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <100rmcm$i0os$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111766 |
On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 5/23/2025 9:21 AM, John Levine wrote:
>>>> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>>>>>> Don’t you have regulations, or at least discouragements, against
>>>>>>> e-waste
>>>>>>> going to landfill?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, in the last two decades. A quarter century ago, not so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is 'Murica, pretty much everything goes in the trash here...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>
>>>> It's sort of true. In my town they pick up paper and containers and
>>>> yard waste
>>>> at the curb but I have to take electronics down to the recycling
>>>> dump. Most
>>>> people don't bother.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Theoretically, they pick up recycling (paper and plastic), but whether
>>> or not they bother is another matter. Usually the garbage trucks come by
>>> and empty both bins, so it might not make much difference.
>>
>> There are trucks that have two holding areas, so they can make
>> the trip with one truck rather than two. In my rural neighborhood,
>> there are three trucks - trash, recycling and greenwaste. I have
>> the smallest trash can they offer and it takes me two to three
>> weeks to fill it.
>>
>
> No greenwaste trucks, one has to take any tree branches or similar down
> to the greenwaste place themselves, if not burn them.
>
> The area I am in, isn't really either urban or rural I think.
> IIRC, yard here is around 2.5 acre, whereas a neighbor has somewhere
> around 8 acres (so a much bigger yard).
>
> Another neighbor (across a different fence), having a much smaller yard
> (around 1 acre).
>
> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are
> basically right next to each other with very little yard space.
>
Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates...
I think my numbers were a bit off.
But, as I understand it:
1/4 acre, typical for suburbs;
Much of the lot is taken up by the house itself.
Yard is mostly superficial (*1).
1/2 acre, slightly bigger yard
Say, neighbor's house is like 20 feet away or something.
1 acre
Roughly the size of a typical used car lot or gas station.
2 acre
Roughly twice the area of a gas station.
Could fit multiple houses if each had a smaller yard.
...
*1: Say, the setup where you can walk around the house, and a back yard
that is maybe big enough to set up an outdoor sitting space, or a small
garden shed, but not much else.
Thinking some, not sure the size of the neighbors' yard, but could
probably fit maybe 9 to 12 houses at housing-development densities. If
one assumes each house is 1/4 acre, it reduces the estimate to 3 acres.
Part of neighbor's yard has a trees (like semi-forested), I think he
cuts them down sometimes, and has a big pile of firewood.
But, neighbors yard is bigger than mine, which could maybe only fit 4
houses (if put closer together).
But, this would only be a little under acre by this line of reasoning.
Then again, if my house wasn't here, could probably fit a gas station in
the same space, so this much checks out.
The yard also has some trees, I think roughly 9 large ones (and a few
smaller trees). The yard is subdivided into several subsections by
chainlink fences. There is a smaller inner section that we let the dog
run in (the outer sections are not fully enclosed, so if the dog got out
of the inner yard, she could run free)
This smaller inner-area has several steel garden sheds and a 2 car
garage. In this case, plot shape is shorter and wider rather than long
and narrow.
To fit 4 copies of the house in it, would likely put them side by side,
and front/back (the house is also wider than it is deep).
>
> At the relative's house, I think the yard is in the area of 4 acres (so,
> enough that we could set up a machine shop in the back yard, along with
> a few storage units, etc).
>
Not sure, could maybe fit 6 copies of his house front-to-back. However,
the yard is fairly narrow, say, only around 15 feet or so to the fence.
Crude estimate:
House: ~ 60 feet square, + ~ 15 feet on each size, ~ 30 foot front yard.
Unclear back yard size.
Mental estimate based on estimated house size/etc: ~ 400 feet; est ~
36000 ft^2.
But, this only works out to around 1 acre (way off from my prior estimate).
If I do mental visual estimates with a shipping container (there are a
few in said yard), yard is maybe 3 shipping containers wide, and around
7 containers front to back (or, ~ 34000 feet; or still under ~ 1 acre).
The machine shop is roughly square, and roughly the same side on each
side as the shipping container (so, ~ 1600 ft^2 ?).
I have a plasma cutter table, this is roughly 6 x 9 feet (though, only
4x4 feet is usable for material, but adds ~ 2 feet on the sides). The
width of the shop is roughly 3x the length of the plasma table. But this
falls short if the estimate based on the length of the shipping container.
> The neighbor with the horses has a much bigger yard, maybe 12 acres, but
> I think maybe much smaller and horses would be unhappy as they seem to
> like to run around and would need at least some distance to get up to
> speed.
>
Well, will probably also need to adjust this down as well, but that yard
is still very large.
Maybe 8 x 12 shipping containers (length-wise)?...
There is a house off in a corner, behind a fence, along with some horse
stables and similar.
Either way, it is large enough that the horses can run in a big circle
and jump over a creek and some logs and similar if they want.
> Maybe counts as rural, dunno...
>
Well, at least the horse yard maybe counts.
Across from this yard, there is a road. Across that road is a large
undeveloped area.
At the intersection for this road, one path leads to a Costco and an
Amazon warehouse, then intersects with another road with more
undeveloped areas beyond.
At another path from this intersection, is mostly a path of mostly sheep
and cow farms and similar (seems like more "proper rural"), going down
this road a while, and making a turn, the farms give way to densely
packed housing developments (houses basically right on top of each
other), leading into an area known as "Broken Arrow".
These housing areas are generally what I think counts as "suburbs".
Going the other direction (back towards my house), density increases,
where there are gas stations, an Aldi store, and several used car lots.
Then one gets to the area I live (roughly several miles away from my
relative).
It is an ambiguous area, not really as dense as "suburbs" but not really
"rural" either.
Sort of in an ambiguous gray area...
Also sorta mixed residential and commercial, and with random bits of
open/undeveloped areas as well.
But, still urban enough to have things like city provided water/sewer,
garbage pickup, and city people making a fuss if one parks cars in ones'
front lawn or engages in open burns, ... So, possibly, still a little
too close to the city (thus, not rural either; where presumably no one
would care if one parks cars on their front lawn...).
If one keeps going further in this direction, buildings get closer
together, the roads get wider (4 lane vs 2 lane) and traffic denser.
Then one is in Tulsa (more or less). Then there is a shopping mall, and
I think from there one can also take a path that ends up back in Broken
Arrow (I guess, one can take higher traffic roads to get to Broken Arrow
rather than go through the area of cow and sheep farms, but there is
less traffic out there).
I think, a few paths from here lead to Owasso and Claremore, I don't
know the roads that well (and I don't really drive, as I suck at it).
Usually one can know what area one is in by signs on buildings.
There is also a "Downtown Tulsa" area (with high-rise buildings, a
convention center, etc) but it is much further away and we rarely go
there (and full of 1-way streets and other annoyances).
On the far other side of Tulsa, the road leads to Oklahoma City (but is
a much longer drive), and then to Dallas. IIRC, this route is mostly
through undeveloped areas, and truck stops and similar.
> Still not quite the same as the open expanses of land further away from
> cities though (where the land is either wide open, or the occasional
> corn fields or similar). Which is like, more rural.
>
I think the sheep and cow farms are intermediate.
Likely rural, but maybe not as much as the corn fields (just an open
expanse of corn), maybe one might see the occasional thresher or other
large farm equipment. Though, the frequently driven paths don't have
much in terms of corn fields.
Like, I am in areas where, besides this stuff, one might encounter
things like warehouses and similar. My brother isn't living that far
away, but I guess is living next to a cement factory. The road by his
house is 2 lane but has a regular stream of semi-trucks going up and
down it, mostly going to/from the cement factory.
Well, and between my house and my relative's house, there is also what
is (IIRC) a rock quarry.
>
> Maybe the metric would be whether one could easily walk to the
> neighbor's house (say, in a few minutes or so), vs probably needing to
> get in a car or similar and drive there.
>
At one point lived in a part of Nevada, where it was a fairly long drive
across open desert to get to a paved road.
There was a neighbor off in the distance (several miles), but never went
over there (they had a house with a yard surrounded by a tall fence and
razor wire).
The area was mostly flat open desert, but one could see the mountains in
the distance. No utilities out there (so, was mostly using a generator
for power).
The area was mostly big open areas of flat dirt, broken up by natural
barriers of sagebrush.
Land out there was cheap, I think parents owned something like 150 acres
or something. I am not entirely sure where the property lines were
though (no fences, only desert).
There were horses roaming the area, and technically one could use the
horse droppings to make a fire (yeah... that was a common way to cook
something out there; the native horses dropping what was effectively
free firewood, or potting soil, whichever one prefers).
Later on, parents moved closer to Reno, in a place where there was
electricity, but still on dirt roads and similar.
When I was living in Arizona, the setup wasn't quite so sparse, as there
were other neighbors not that far away. The setup there was mostly
mobile-homes on dirt, with dirt roads (that lead to a highway, that led
to Tucson in one direction and Phoenix in the other).
There, people had yard fences, often a combination of chain-link and
corrugated sheet steel often woven onto the chain-link with barbwire or
similar.
Sometimes we could get deliveries, but the driver would just sorta throw
the package in the general direction of the door and make a run for it.
But, yeah, there were plants, mostly scattered grass and Cholla cactus.
The yard was still fairly large, not sure how big exactly. There was a
fence all around, but I don't think I ever walked all the way to the
back of it (the back of the yard was a treacherous path of rough terrain
and cholla cactus). I think, beyond that fence, nothing but open desert
(well, possibly for however long until one reached Tucson, but I don't
think I could see Tucson from there, just desert).
>
>
>> It's pretty easy to reduce the amount of waste you generate
>> through the choices you make and the goods you purchase. Don't
>> by canned sparking water or water in disposable plastic
>> bottles, for example. Eschew products packaged in
>> in excessive plastic packaging. Don't use one-time plastic
>> items (straws, eating utensils, plates etc). Prefer glass containers
>> over plastic containers.
>>
>
> We don't use that much single use plastics here at least.
> Things like plastic bottles and jars tend to get cleaned out and reused.
>
I still live with parents, who are not the types to use a bunch of
single-use plastics.
They mostly cook non-processed foods. Some amount of home-grown plants
(mostly grown in the back yard). Most meat comes from the store though.
Like, I think there are some people around that raise and process their
own animals, but we don't.
Well, and personally I would probably not be up to this.
>
>
>>>
>>> Though, looking, it might depend on state as well.
>>
>> Very definitely. Unenlightened states (generally red)
>> don't give a shit.
>>
>
> Pretty sure Oklahoma is pretty solidly in the red camp.
>
Parents are also pretty solidly red.
If anything, I am probably more neutral leaning.
>
>
> I think there are some blue areas down by Oklahoma City and similar
> though, but where I am living is pretty far from OKC.
>
> Here, we are near a city (Tulsa), but not particularly close to the main
> urban parts of the city (nor in "Broken Arrow" which is mostly the land
> of suburbs). Partly up near Owasso and similar as well.
>
> But, yeah, also up near the borders with Kansas, Arkansas, and Missouri.
>
> Where, Kansas and Missouri are the closest borders, Arkansas a little
> further.
>
Or, more or less, "Somewhere in Northeastern Oklahoma, around the area
just north of Tulsa."
>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-24 16:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <07a1e9c7710e0823bf81eb32edc5a135@www.novabbs.org> |
| In reply to | #111773 |
On Sat, 24 May 2025 5:38:36 +0000, BGB wrote: > On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote: >> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes: ------------- >> >> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are >> basically right next to each other with very little yard space. >> > > Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates... > I think my numbers were a bit off. > > > But, as I understand it: > 1/4 acre, typical for suburbs; An acre is 208.7^2 feet. My 2450 sq-ft house sits on 95×65 foot lot; 14% of acre. With 5 foot easements on all sides. > Much of the lot is taken up by the house itself. > Yard is mostly superficial (*1). > 1/2 acre, slightly bigger yard > Say, neighbor's house is like 20 feet away or something. > 1 acre > Roughly the size of a typical used car lot or gas station. > 2 acre > Roughly twice the area of a gas station. > Could fit multiple houses if each had a smaller yard. > ...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-24 14:24 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <100t6od$sqgn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111776 |
On 5/24/2025 11:57 AM, MitchAlsup1 wrote: > On Sat, 24 May 2025 5:38:36 +0000, BGB wrote: > >> On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote: >>> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes: > ------------- >>> >>> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are >>> basically right next to each other with very little yard space. >>> >> >> Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates... >> I think my numbers were a bit off. >> >> >> But, as I understand it: >> 1/4 acre, typical for suburbs; > > An acre is 208.7^2 feet. > My 2450 sq-ft house sits on 95×65 foot lot; 14% of acre. > With 5 foot easements on all sides. > Realizes I can check distances using Google Earth (in meters)... Distance: Closest neighbors are across the street, at roughly 45 meters (148 feet). Next closest neighbors: 65 meters (214 feet), and 63 meters. Neighbor with bigger yard, roughly 100 meters (330 feet). Their yard is approximately 150 x 75 meters (495 x 248 feet), so, around 122760 ft^2, or around 3 acre. My yard, ~ 50 x 45 meters, 165 x 149, so ~ 24585 ft^2, or around 0.6 acre... So, my yard isn't all that big though it seems... Actually one of the smaller ones on the block, apart from one house on the corner (~ 45 x 45 meters). Block size is roughly 200 x 400 meters. With, the 400 meter stretch of road having 7 houses. So, around 57 meter average house-to-house distance. The 200 meter sections have 3 houses on each side, so around 67 meter. The houses near the middle of the block tend to have bigger yards. But, 16 houses on the block, statistical average yard size on this block: 49500 ft^2. Finding relative's house on map, yard is around 30 x 75 meters, 99 x 248 feet, 24552 ft^2. Horse area is around 60 x 245 meters (200 x 808 feet, or ~ 161600 ft^2, ~ 3.71 acre). There are some nearby undeveloped areas: 600 x 400 meters, and 800 x 800 meters. Distance from my house to central part of Tulsa: ~ 11 km. Distance from my house until reaching undeveloped areas: ~ 4km. Also not that far from the airport, which is actually rather large (around 3km x 4km). With around a 3km stretch of runway. The center part of the city is seemingly mostly crammed into a 2km x 2km square. >> Much of the lot is taken up by the house itself. >> Yard is mostly superficial (*1). >> 1/2 acre, slightly bigger yard >> Say, neighbor's house is like 20 feet away or something. >> 1 acre >> Roughly the size of a typical used car lot or gas station. >> 2 acre >> Roughly twice the area of a gas station. >> Could fit multiple houses if each had a smaller yard. >> ... ...
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-30 09:20 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <101bt99$dm2o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111776 |
MitchAlsup1 <mitchalsup@aol.com> schrieb: > On Sat, 24 May 2025 5:38:36 +0000, BGB wrote: > >> On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote: >>> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes: > ------------- >>> >>> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are >>> basically right next to each other with very little yard space. >>> >> >> Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates... >> I think my numbers were a bit off. >> >> >> But, as I understand it: >> 1/4 acre, typical for suburbs; > > An acre is 208.7^2 feet. > My 2450 sq-ft house sits on 95×65 foot lot; 14% of acre. > With 5 foot easements on all sides. That reminds me of "George Washington's Dream", https://x.com/nbcsnl/status/1718644497674797265 , an instant classic and especially funny for a European engineer who has worked with Americans.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-24 20:38 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <_6qYP.4$rxk1.0@fx02.iad> |
| In reply to | #111773 |
BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes: >On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote: >> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes: >>>> On 5/23/2025 9:21 AM, John Levine wrote: >>>>> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>>>>>>> Don’t you have regulations, or at least discouragements, against >>>>>>>> e-waste >>>>>>>> going to landfill? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, in the last two decades. A quarter century ago, not so much. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is 'Murica, pretty much everything goes in the trash here... >>>>>> >>>>>> Nonsense. >>>>> >>>>> It's sort of true. In my town they pick up paper and containers and >>>>> yard waste >>>>> at the curb but I have to take electronics down to the recycling >>>>> dump. Most >>>>> people don't bother. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Theoretically, they pick up recycling (paper and plastic), but whether >>>> or not they bother is another matter. Usually the garbage trucks come by >>>> and empty both bins, so it might not make much difference. >>> >>> There are trucks that have two holding areas, so they can make >>> the trip with one truck rather than two. In my rural neighborhood, >>> there are three trucks - trash, recycling and greenwaste. I have >>> the smallest trash can they offer and it takes me two to three >>> weeks to fill it. >>> >> >> No greenwaste trucks, one has to take any tree branches or similar down >> to the greenwaste place themselves, if not burn them. >> >> The area I am in, isn't really either urban or rural I think. >> IIRC, yard here is around 2.5 acre, whereas a neighbor has somewhere >> around 8 acres (so a much bigger yard). >> >> Another neighbor (across a different fence), having a much smaller yard >> (around 1 acre). >> >> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are >> basically right next to each other with very little yard space. >> > >Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates... > I think my numbers were a bit off. > > >But, as I understand it: > 1/4 acre, typical for suburbs; > Much of the lot is taken up by the house itself. > Yard is mostly superficial (*1). Depends on suburb and when the subdevelopment was built. 70's, a lot size in a large suburb in California might reach 6000 square feet (100' x 60), 1/7 acre. A typical home might have a footprint of 1000-1200 square feet (perhaps 1600 square feet including second story). That leaves 4400- 5000 square feet for yard, driveway, etc. Yards in the midwest are somewhat larger. In the 2020's, the lot size in a new development will be much smaller in large metro areas, perhaps 4000 sq ft, if that, and likely to be townhomes or condos. In my rural area (1975 vintage), most lots are one hectare (2.54 acres); the neighboring township has a 5 acre minimum. My lot measures approximately 200' by 600'.
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-24 16:45 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: the power of junk, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? |
| Message-ID | <100tf17$uk0n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111780 |
On 5/24/2025 3:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 5/23/2025 12:34 PM, BGB wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2025 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 5/23/2025 9:21 AM, John Levine wrote:
>>>>>> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>>>>>>>> Don’t you have regulations, or at least discouragements, against
>>>>>>>>> e-waste
>>>>>>>>> going to landfill?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, in the last two decades. A quarter century ago, not so much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is 'Murica, pretty much everything goes in the trash here...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's sort of true. In my town they pick up paper and containers and
>>>>>> yard waste
>>>>>> at the curb but I have to take electronics down to the recycling
>>>>>> dump. Most
>>>>>> people don't bother.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Theoretically, they pick up recycling (paper and plastic), but whether
>>>>> or not they bother is another matter. Usually the garbage trucks come by
>>>>> and empty both bins, so it might not make much difference.
>>>>
>>>> There are trucks that have two holding areas, so they can make
>>>> the trip with one truck rather than two. In my rural neighborhood,
>>>> there are three trucks - trash, recycling and greenwaste. I have
>>>> the smallest trash can they offer and it takes me two to three
>>>> weeks to fill it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No greenwaste trucks, one has to take any tree branches or similar down
>>> to the greenwaste place themselves, if not burn them.
>>>
>>> The area I am in, isn't really either urban or rural I think.
>>> IIRC, yard here is around 2.5 acre, whereas a neighbor has somewhere
>>> around 8 acres (so a much bigger yard).
>>>
>>> Another neighbor (across a different fence), having a much smaller yard
>>> (around 1 acre).
>>>
>>> Contrast, say, in suburbs or housing developments where the houses are
>>> basically right next to each other with very little yard space.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I am now not so sure about my area estimates...
>> I think my numbers were a bit off.
>>
>>
>> But, as I understand it:
>> 1/4 acre, typical for suburbs;
>> Much of the lot is taken up by the house itself.
>> Yard is mostly superficial (*1).
>
> Depends on suburb and when the subdevelopment was
> built. 70's, a lot size in a large suburb in California might
> reach 6000 square feet (100' x 60), 1/7 acre. A typical
> home might have a footprint of 1000-1200 square
> feet (perhaps 1600 square feet including second
> story). That leaves 4400- 5000 square feet for yard,
> driveway, etc.
>
> Yards in the midwest are somewhat larger.
>
> In the 2020's, the lot size in a new development
> will be much smaller in large metro areas, perhaps
> 4000 sq ft, if that, and likely to be townhomes or
> condos.
>
From what I have seen, the land footprint is almost entirely house.
Like, there is maybe a 5 foot gap from one to the next, not much more.
Back yard nearly non existent, and front yard is maybe 8 or 10 feet.
From what I have seem, typical construction looks like:
Foundation is usually concrete or similar;
A wood frame is built;
Chicken wire is added around the frame;
A sheathing is applied, typically has "Tyvek" in big letters;
Various siding or similar is applied to the exterior.
Faux bricks appears to be a popular option.
Like, they have a sort of paneling with brick-like tiles.
But, yeah, seems my initial estimate of "acre" was a little off...
It was in effect a somewhat larger unit of area than I was initially
thinking.
But, I was also working off the initial assumption that the
stereotypical housing-development houses were 1/4 acre, and not like 1/8
or 1/10 or something, ...
> In my rural area (1975 vintage), most lots are one hectare (2.54 acres);
> the neighboring township has a 5 acre minimum. My lot measures
> approximately 200' by 600'.
>
Yeah, I am realizing where I am is probably closer to suburb territory.
Which sorta makes sense. Still a lot of houses and other buildings
around here.
Not really what I think of as "rural", namely the traditional image of
lots of farms, animals, etc.
I think the houses around here were mostly built in the 1980s or something.
Not really "urban", as typically implied by people living in high-rise
buildings, with crowds of people walking around in front.
I think not so much of this in Tulsa though. There is only a small area
with high-rise buildings, right at the city center, and I think most of
these are office/administrative type buildings.
Otherwise, whole rest of the city is mostly flat, mostly 1 or 2 story
buildings. And, a lot of parking lots. Like, dunno, maybe half the land
area is parking lots?...
Looks like on a lot of plots of land, it is 50-75% parking lot.
...
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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-22 11:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <100n208$6i0$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #111724 |
In article <rvpXP.453024$v2h6.266771@fx14.iad>,
EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> wrote:
>WinNT was developed on MIPS R4000 and ported to 80386/486 later.
Bringup was done on an i860-based board. That never panned out
in the market, though.
- Dan C.
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| From | Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-20 20:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <100jip0$2fpjs$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111685 |
On 5/20/2025 5:29 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2025 10:49:54 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Indeed, AFAIK, what we call "HDD cache" is actually just the RAM used by >> the embedded CPU inside the drive for its operation. > > If it were just I/O buffers for operations in progress, that would be > fine. The problem is when it keeps data around instead of immediately > writing it out, and what’s worse, lies about it, so it tells the OS that > the write has completed when it hasn’t. So you have no objection to caching data on reads such as reading in subsequent data. And furthermore, you saw earlier that the host can turn on or off, either for all writes or a particular write, the completion return before the data is on the disk. No one is "lying". You just have to understand what you are asking for. -- - Stephen Fuld (e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-21 05:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <100jouc$2mkus$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111701 |
On Tue, 20 May 2025 20:54:08 -0700, Stephen Fuld wrote: > And furthermore, you saw earlier that the host can turn on or off, > either for all writes or a particular write, the completion return > before the data is on the disk. The host can *request* such a thing, nothing more. And of course the drive can answer in the affirmative. Whether a suitable action actually takes place is another matter entirely.
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| From | Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-20 23:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <100jsl3$2fpju$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111703 |
On 5/20/2025 10:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2025 20:54:08 -0700, Stephen Fuld wrote: > >> And furthermore, you saw earlier that the host can turn on or off, >> either for all writes or a particular write, the completion return >> before the data is on the disk. > > The host can *request* such a thing, nothing more. And of course the drive > can answer in the affirmative. > > Whether a suitable action actually takes place is another matter entirely. See my response to this in a previous post. -- - Stephen Fuld (e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-21 02:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <100jug9$2nnbc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111703 |
On 5/21/2025 12:39 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2025 20:54:08 -0700, Stephen Fuld wrote: > >> And furthermore, you saw earlier that the host can turn on or off, >> either for all writes or a particular write, the completion return >> before the data is on the disk. > > The host can *request* such a thing, nothing more. And of course the drive > can answer in the affirmative. > > Whether a suitable action actually takes place is another matter entirely. No need to FUD the HDD manufacturers. In this case, they would stand to gain little from ignoring these requests, but ignoring these requests would make the drives much less attractive on the market. Cutting this corner is unlikely to go unnoticed, as people would likely notice if the drives were prone to irrecoverable data corruption to the filesystem journals and similar in the case of power disruptions and similar. Well, nevermind possibly Seagate, whose seeming market strategy is to make drives that have crappy reliability, occasional issues with data corruption, and that are prone to fail after a few years. Guess (as some executive rubs their hands together): "Man, these drives last too long, we need to make them less reliable..." "Then people will buy new drives..." "And they will choose us because the drives are cheaper...". Then me a few times, "Well, maybe Seagate drives have stopped being crap? Surely they can't stay in business if their drives are still crap." Drive then fails after a few years, so, still crap... They will be like, "Hey... Look at this drive, it is both big and cheap..." people will buy them, but them the power of Seagate and the power of SMR combine to make reliability suck (at least assuming the drive doesn't just randomly decide it doesn't want to work anymore and becomes entirely unresponsive after 2 or 3 years). Once again leaving one to wonder, "If the drives are this crap, why do people still buy from them?...". Like, it can't really just be that I get unlucky every time I consider to try giving them another chance... Meanwhile, WD's CMR drives seem to be fairly reliable. Though, SMR is more of a mixed bag, more TB/$, worse performance and reliability. Seemingly SanDisk is better for SSDs though. For HDDs, have mostly been having good results with WD Red drives (my PC has several of them).
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-21 13:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pIkXP.478612$lK62.282070@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #111703 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >On Tue, 20 May 2025 20:54:08 -0700, Stephen Fuld wrote: > >> And furthermore, you saw earlier that the host can turn on or off, >> either for all writes or a particular write, the completion return >> before the data is on the disk. > >The host can *request* such a thing, nothing more. And of course the drive >can answer in the affirmative. > >Whether a suitable action actually takes place is another matter entirely. No, it is not. No drive manufacturer would survive a lie.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-21 00:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <100j8dk$2g75r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111666 |
On Tue, 20 May 2025 00:16:44 -0500, BGB wrote: > Also the SATA interface is technically faster and has a higher bandwidth > than it can actually read stuff from the HDD itself, so if the HDD's > cache can do *anything* (in terms of prefetch and allowing IO requests > to be completed more quickly) it is still a win. But that depends on the disk cache having something useful in it. Which, as we have seen from its place in the hierarchy and the basic statistics of cache operation, is pretty unlikely. The cost/benefit balance is negative: it contributes essentially nothing to performance, while detracting to some extent from reliability. > Well, say, because the FS designers seem to casually assume smaller > numbers of multi-MB files, rather than people filling the drive with > millions of files most of which being kB sized. Filesystem designers have solutions for that. Look up “tail-packing”. This is why drive designers should not be second-guessing OS filesystem designers. > The caches serve different purposes. I think drive designers suffer from an inferiority complex: they know their product is right at the bottom of the performance hierarchy, so they try to come up with ways to make them seem faster than they are, instead of concentrating on their number one job, which is ensuring the integrity of the data they’re entrusted with storing.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-14 13:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <aX0VP.886897$C51b.773800@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #111612 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >On Tue, 13 May 2025 08:33:15 -0700, Stephen Fuld wrote: > >> No one is arguing that host based file caches are bad. It is simply the >> fact that there are situations where drive caches are a useful >> addition ... > >You can tell that’s wrong because the drive cache is slower than the OS >filesystem cache. Putting a slower cache in series with a faster one is a >waste of time ... unless the slower cache is much larger. You really have no clue what you're talking about. Disk drive caches were never intended to be extensions of the host cache structure.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-14 18:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1002lpj$2k89$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #111614 |
According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >[something] > >You really have no clue what you're talking about. Disk drive caches were >never intended to be extensions of the host cache structure. Er, you do know who you're arguing with? -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-14 18:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <025VP.410276$lbbb.149823@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #111615 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >>[something] >> >>You really have no clue what you're talking about. Disk drive caches were >>never intended to be extensions of the host cache structure. > >Er, you do know who you're arguing with? Yes, I do generally try to avoid feeding the trolls. My bad.
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-14 18:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1002obl$2l4uo$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111615 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> schrieb: > According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >>[something] >> >>You really have no clue what you're talking about. Disk drive caches were >>never intended to be extensions of the host cache structure. > > Er, you do know who you're arguing with? I have adjusted my scorefile so I only get to read the intelligent parts of these conversations.
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-23 00:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <100oetb$c5c7$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #111608 |
Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> wrote:
> On 5/13/2025 1:12 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 07:40:35 GMT, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>
>>> In this case the drive knows things that the OS does not: Consider that
>>> the OS asked for sector N what happens when the arm finally has settled
>>> enough to read from the track, and the first sector it sees is sector
>>> N+10.
>>
>> The OS isn’t likely to ask for one sector at a time.
>
> Frequently true, so consider this related scenario. The host requests a
> read of 10 sectors starting at sector N. When the head settles, the
> next sector is N+6. Without any in drive buffering, it would wait
> almost a full revolution till record N comes under the head.
>
> With buffering, but no cache, the drive reads record N+5 to N+9 into the
> buffer, then waits until the drive rotates to record N and begins the
> host transfer. This is an improvement because the transfer to the host
> is faster than the transfer from the disk, and the last 3 sectors can be
> transferred out of the buffer without waiting for the disk, so the
> transfer is completed faster.
>
> Now consider with caching. Similar, but after record N+9, the drive
> continues reading into the cache. Lets say there are 30 records on this
> track. If it reads all of the data into the cache, then proceeds as
> above once the disk rotates to record N, it has cost zero time, and if
> the host then issues another 10 sector read sequential to the initial
> one (or actually any sectors from N+10 to N+29). This can be satisfied
> out of the cache without any drive delay, so much faster than without
> the cache, and the heads can be moved away to start satisfying another
> unrelated request. There is minimal cost and substantial benefit.
>
> Now you have argued that the file system cache should take care of that,
> presumably issuing prefetch reads for the next sectors. This will work,
> of course, but has some disadvantages relative to using the drive cache.
> Specifically,since it is unlikely the prefetch request will be
> received by the drive before record N+10 has passed the heads, it will
> incur additional most of a rotational delay, which will tie up the
> drive, preventing it from responding to some other request.
>
> No one is arguing that host based file caches are bad. It is simply the
> fact that there are situations where drive caches are a useful addition,
> and since the drive has to have some DRAM anyway for other reasons, the
> cost is minimal. You can think of the drive cache as the "next level"
> cache behind the host based cache.
It is pretty clear that due to drive mechanics track cache/buffer
is useful. However, the real question is about size: how big
should it be. For "consumer" drives I see claims of 256 MB
cache. Given rather optimistic 200 MB/s transfer rate it is
about 1.25s of drive data, that is 80-150 rotations. I would
expect that say 4 tracks should be enough for reading. For
writing one could use few more tracks. Still, advertised cache
sizes seem to be much bigger than necessary.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-23 05:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <100p1ef$3uia9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111745 |
On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:18:53 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote: > It is pretty clear that due to drive mechanics track cache/buffer is > useful. Only if you don’t take the statistics of real-world cache behaviour into account. > However, the real question is about size: how big should it be. It can never be big enough to make a difference.
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-23 01:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <100p3qr$3undg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #111749 |
On 5/23/2025 12:35 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:18:53 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote: > >> It is pretty clear that due to drive mechanics track cache/buffer is >> useful. > > Only if you don’t take the statistics of real-world cache behaviour into > account. > >> However, the real question is about size: how big should it be. > > It can never be big enough to make a difference. Sometimes, it is not the size of the cache that matters. Say, for example, a typical cache configuration in my core: L1 D$: 32K, direct mapped L1 I$: 16K, direct mapped L2: 256K, direct mapped. OK, so say I stick a 4K cache between the L1 and L2 caches. Seems kinda useless just based on sizes. Except: This small cache is 4-way set associative and so can absorb a bunch of conflict misses, and notably reducing the number of cache misses in the L2 cache. It can bring a performance benefit, despite being small. Why? Consider you have data at 0x14000000 and 0x1C00000 both being used in at the same time. The L1 cache will miss, and the L2 will miss. This small 4-way cache, well, it can absorb this miss; sparing the L2 from the miss. Likewise, in this case, the small 4-way cache is cheaper than it would be to make either the L1 or L2 caches set-associative. So, one can't so easily just write off the HDD's cache... You would need to prove that there is a 100% overlap between whatever the OS side cache caches, and whatever the HDD caches. But, because the OS cache is likely to be caching "clusters that were actually accessed" and the HDD cache may also cache "other stuff that happens to be in the same track, but was not requested by the host." There is not a strict 1:1 overlap. Also, the Host/HDD interactions are not strictly sequential either, but rather because they are each operating independently over a message-passing interface, they are effectively more operating in terms of the rules of phi calculus (and so, "A is bigger and faster, B is smaller and slower" logic doesn't necessarily apply; more the relative timing and latency of the interactions over the shared communication medium). It is like asking "why have a FIFO in a RS232 UART, why not just busy loop for every byte?". Even if the UART is slow either way (and an 8 or 16 byte FIFO is seemingly too small to matter), it may still waste less time CPU side to have a FIFO than to just have the CPU busy-loop until it can send another byte. Though, sadly, this strategy doesn't work with SPI (had to instead use 1/8/32 byte bursts). ...
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