Groups > comp.arch > #2074

Re: History of byte addressing

Message-ID	<4DEDBA2F.6010503@SPAM.comp-arch.net> (permalink)
Date	2011-06-06 22:42 -0700
From	"Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net>
Organization	comp-arch.net
Newsgroups	comp.arch
Subject	Re: History of byte addressing
References	(7 earlier) <6567982e-af70-494f-b064-72a8c587665c@g28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <_6_Gp.42449$5f.2673@newsfe19.iad> <isht8n$m84$1@dont-email.me> <Nd8Hp.394$tp.382@newsfe06.iad> <isj3ub$44n$1@dont-email.me>

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On 6/6/2011 10:49 AM, Stephen Fuld wrote:
> On 6/6/2011 10:34 AM, EricP wrote:
>> Stephen Fuld wrote:
>>> On 6/5/2011 11:04 PM, EricP wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 5, 1:43 pm, Louis Krupp <lkr...@nospam.indra.com.invalid>

>>>> They would have to make the exe file format secret and maybe ban
>>>> disassemblers or something. A policy that sounds ripe for hacking.
>>>
>>> No, they are not secret, so you can know about them, and even write a
>>> program that looks exactly like an executable, but you can't get it
>>> executed.
>>
>> Fine, so I write my assembler in Fortran and generate the proto-exe file.
>> Then I write another program in Fortran that copies files to tape
>> using a raw data format that mimics the backup file format,
>> but sets the magic bits in the file meta data marking it as an exe.
>> Then I copy my assembler to tape, now with its proper meta header,
>> back it down to disk, and Bob's Your Uncle I have my assembler.
>
> That indeed used to be a hole, but it was fixed some time ago. I don't
> know the details. Perhaps someone else could chime in here.
>
>
>> Refusing to sell the customer an assembler if that's what
>> they want is a silly autocratic control freak attitude.
>> After all, it is the customer's computer.
>
> Do do you fault Intel/AMD for not selling the customer a microcode
> assembler, etc? After all, the customer bought the chip.
>
> Not having user access to write "assembler" level code is integral to
> the security and integrity model. You see, there is no hardware "user
> mode" versus "Supervisor" or "Privileged" mode. Thus allowing user
> access to the low level stuff would allow him to compromise the system
> as he could over write the OS, other user's code, etc.

And I believe that the problems with validating Burroughs' security 
model were what led Virgil Gligor to make it a requirement that all
secure machines for US government use had to have at least
kernel/user privilege levels.

The problem with Burroughs' model is that you have to prove the compiler 
and/or assembler correct.

Thread

History of byte addressing John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2011-06-02 19:36 +0000
  Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-06-02 20:38 +0100
    Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-03 08:05 -0700
  Re: History of byte addressing Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-06-03 05:26 -0700
    Re: History of byte addressing Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2011-06-03 09:48 -0400
  Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-03 07:49 -0700
    Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-03 10:56 -0700
  Re: History of byte addressing "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-04 10:59 -0700
    Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-04 15:01 -0700
      Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-06-04 22:53 +0100
        Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 10:40 -0700
    Re: History of byte addressing John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2011-06-05 06:10 +0000
      Re: History of byte addressing Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 10:00 -0700
        Re: History of byte addressing Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 10:04 -0700
          Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 10:36 -0700
            Re: History of byte addressing "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 11:00 -0700
              Re: History of byte addressing Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-06-05 21:42 +0200
                Re: History of byte addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-06-06 17:03 +0000
                Re: History of byte addressing Andrew Reilly <areilly---@bigpond.net.au> - 2011-06-06 23:55 +0000
                Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-06 18:26 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Andrew Reilly <areilly---@bigpond.net.au> - 2011-06-07 05:08 +0000
                Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-07 03:26 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2011-07-05 20:00 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) - 2011-07-06 00:15 +0000
              Re: History of byte addressing George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2011-06-05 16:18 -0400
              Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 22:10 -0700
              Re: History of byte addressing torbenm@diku.dk (Torben Ægidius Mogensen) - 2011-06-07 10:50 +0200
                Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:02 +0200
              Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 15:51 +0200
            Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-05 13:43 -0600
              Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 22:12 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2011-06-06 02:04 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-06-05 23:49 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2011-06-06 13:34 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-06-06 10:49 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-06 22:42 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2011-06-07 07:37 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-06-07 08:22 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-11 09:56 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2011-06-11 14:59 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-11 18:52 -0600
                Re: History of byte addressing "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-12 12:40 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2011-06-11 15:05 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-06 13:10 -0600
                Re: History of byte addressing George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2011-06-06 16:41 -0400
                Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-06 18:13 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-06 23:50 -0600
                Re: History of byte addressing Jim Haynes <jhaynes@alumni.uark.edu> - 2011-06-07 10:01 -0500
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-07 13:09 -0600
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-07 14:03 -0600
                Re: History of byte addressing Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.indra.com.invalid> - 2011-06-06 05:16 -0600
        Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 10:44 -0700
        Re: History of byte addressing John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2011-06-06 05:00 +0000
          Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-05 22:11 -0700
            Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-06-06 08:00 +0100
              Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-06 18:16 -0700
            Re: History of byte addressing Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-06 01:01 -0700
              Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-06-06 08:30 +0100
                Re: History of byte addressing Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-06-06 10:34 +0200
                Re: History of byte addressing Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-06 03:29 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-06-06 15:21 +0200
                Re: History of byte addressing Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-06 03:23 -0700
                Re: History of byte addressing MitchAlsup <MitchAlsup@aol.com> - 2011-06-07 08:01 -0700
                Re: alignment, was History of byte addressing John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2011-06-06 18:33 +0000
                Re: alignment, was History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-06-06 19:30 +0100
                Re: alignment, was History of byte addressing Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2011-06-06 15:32 -0400
              Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-06 18:11 -0700
          Re: History of byte addressing Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-06-06 06:48 -0700
            Re: History of byte addressing jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) - 2011-07-03 16:13 +0000
        Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-03 09:10 -0700
  Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:23 +0200
    Re: History of byte addressing Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-06-07 08:26 -0700
  Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:25 +0200
    Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:45 +0200
      Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:48 +0200
      Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 16:59 +0200
        Re: History of byte addressing "Skybuck Flying" <Windows7IsOK@DreamPC2006.com> - 2011-06-07 17:05 +0200
  Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-06-18 15:43 -0700
  Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 03:14 -0700
    Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 03:40 -0700
      Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 04:28 -0700
        Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-04 13:38 +0100
          Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 06:47 -0700
            Re: History of byte addressing nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-04 14:16 +0100
        Re: History of byte addressing Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-07-04 15:53 +0100
      Re: History of byte addressing Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-07-04 15:36 +0100
        Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 07:50 -0700
          Re: History of byte addressing John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2011-07-04 19:46 +0000
            Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 15:29 -0700
              Re: History of byte addressing Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-07-05 00:02 +0100
      Re: History of byte addressing Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-07-04 15:47 +0100
        Re: History of byte addressing Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-04 07:54 -0700

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