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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.arch |
| Subject | Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) |
| Date | 2026-10-19 01:52 +0000 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <11b3t5j$h7l$1@reader2.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | <2026Oct13.104347@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <11b0nak$iems$9@dont-email.me> <kqg9dl5oj9l0dih5kvnrif2fv91ns8lgs3@4ax.com> <6ad5609b.8505984@news.eternal-september.org> |
In article <6ad5609b.8505984@news.eternal-september.org>,
John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 09:45:00 -0400, George Neuner
><gneuner2@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>The problem with the original report was that they attempted with the
>>grammar turn [at least some kinds of] semantic errors into syntax
>>errors.
>
>Obviously, there's no way one can enable a compiler to flag logic
>errors in programs. A Turing-complete language can calculate anything,
>so how can it tell you that you were calculating this when you wanted
>to calculate that?
With apologies, arguments like these always seem to me to miss
the forest for the trees a bit. Some constructs clearly violate
the documented semantics of e.g. a language.
Yes, these langauges are all Turing-complete and so on, and no,
we cannot solve _The_ Halting Problem, in all of its glorious
generality. But, we can solve any number of specific halting
_problems_. For example, I can see that, `for (;;);` is a loop
that does not terminate. With enough effort, I can take that
down some reasonably long paths.
So, too, one can spot a lot of logic errors. There's no reason
a compiler can't see this, for example:
? if (ptr == NULL) {
? int v = *ptr++;
? *ptr = v + 10;
? }
And flag it with a error: "you dereferenced a pointer right
after you asserted it was nil; did you invert the condition?"
Similarly, I posted about Rust a few days ago, which can do all
sorts of fun stuff with its borrow checker to assert that an
object is still alive while references to it exist, and so on,
and reject programs at compilation time that violate those
semantics.
>Of course, with AI, we might be able to do something there.
>
>But already many modern languages do have strict type-checking.
>
>So even if Algol 68 was over-ambitious in this regard, trying to have
>the language help the programmer avoid more mistakes is basically a
>sound idea.
Agreed. Indeed, we've gone much farther than just mere type
checking.
- Dan C.
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Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-13 08:43 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-14 00:23 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-14 07:00 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 22:35 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-14 23:07 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-15 06:05 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-15 07:06 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-16 09:47 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-16 16:04 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 05:46 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-15 14:21 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:42 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-16 14:45 +0200
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-16 05:50 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-16 11:34 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-16 18:23 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-16 20:48 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:28 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-17 09:48 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-17 02:50 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:11 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-17 17:31 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 19:39 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 23:20 +0300
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:54 +0000
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-18 09:45 -0400
Algol 68 (was: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg)) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-18 14:08 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg)) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-19 00:09 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 01:46 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-21 14:15 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-10-21 18:34 +0300
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-21 19:38 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2026-10-22 09:51 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-10-22 14:15 -0700
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-23 14:08 +0000
Re: PL/I, was Algol 68 (was: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg)) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-19 03:24 +0000
Re: PL/I, was Algol 68 (was: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg)) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-19 05:34 +0000
Re: Algol 68 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-18 23:34 -0400
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-19 00:18 +0000
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-19 01:52 +0000
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-19 14:50 -0400
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-20 02:05 +0000
Re: Algol 68 (was Re: Documentation) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 01:54 +0000
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-19 07:44 +0000
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-19 12:24 -0400
Re: Documentation (was Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-18 17:48 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-18 08:59 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-18 15:08 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 18:43 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-18 16:57 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 20:47 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 18:07 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-18 21:04 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-18 23:43 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:57 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 14:27 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-20 10:00 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-20 02:00 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-20 14:09 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 16:44 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-20 10:05 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-20 19:56 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-22 10:54 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-22 22:11 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 17:40 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 20:54 +0300
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 18:25 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:01 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 17:59 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 17:09 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-18 12:31 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-18 17:47 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:27 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-19 09:38 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 14:08 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:21 +0000
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 14:26 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg Joseph Seigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2026-10-19 19:17 -0400
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 22:41 -0700
Re: Performance of xchg reg,reg MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-20 16:45 +0000
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