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Wireless UART for debug purposes

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  Wireless UART for debug purposes pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 09:10 +0100
    Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-11-13 10:00 +0100
      Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 10:39 +0100
        Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-11-13 13:15 +0100
          Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 13:46 +0100
            Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-11-13 15:33 +0100
          Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-11-13 14:35 +0000
    Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 19:47 +0100
      Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes "Peter Heitzer" <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> - 2023-11-15 08:16 +0000
        Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2023-11-20 08:29 +0100
      Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2023-11-20 08:29 +0100
        Re: Wireless UART for debug purposes Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@gmail.com> - 2023-11-20 17:34 +0100

#32047 — Wireless UART for debug purposes

I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging 
messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a few 
cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so both TX 
and RX lines are of interest.

I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a desktop 
or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar software, near the 
device.

However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering if 
there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in these 
cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a 
priorietary dongle USB receiver)?

Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?

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#32048

On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging 
> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a few 
> cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so both TX 
> and RX lines are of interest.
> 
> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a desktop 
> or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar software, near the 
> device.
> 
> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering if 
> there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in these 
> cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a 
> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
> 
> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?

There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of 
course you need something at the other end.  A couple of Silicon Labs 
evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then they 
can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with very little 
effort.

If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have one 
master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a bit more 
work.  And if it is always installed, then suddenly your device is 
classified as a radio communications device, with all the standards, 
certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along with that.

If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs 
debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and 
plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board.  Then you 
can have Wifi configured in any way you like.  A tty to tcp/ip port 
converter for remote access should not be difficult to make - with 
Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.

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#32049

Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging 
>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a 
>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so both 
>> TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>
>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a desktop 
>> or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar software, near 
>> the device.
>>
>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering if 
>> there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in 
>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a 
>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>
>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
> 
> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of 
> course you need something at the other end.  A couple of Silicon Labs 
> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then they 
> can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with very little 
> effort.
> 
> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have one 
> master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a bit more 
> work.  And if it is always installed, then suddenly your device is 
> classified as a radio communications device, with all the standards, 
> certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along with that.
> 
> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs 
> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and 
> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board.  Then you 
> can have Wifi configured in any way you like.  A tty to tcp/ip port 
> converter for remote access should not be difficult to make - with 
> Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.

I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.

However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless 
adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote PC 
(here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).

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#32050

On 13/11/2023 10:39, pozz wrote:
> Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
>> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging 
>>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a 
>>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so 
>>> both TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>>
>>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a 
>>> desktop or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar 
>>> software, near the device.
>>>
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and 
>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering 
>>> if there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in 
>>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a 
>>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>>
>>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
>>
>> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of 
>> course you need something at the other end.  A couple of Silicon Labs 
>> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then 
>> they can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with very 
>> little effort.
>>
>> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have 
>> one master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a bit 
>> more work.  And if it is always installed, then suddenly your device 
>> is classified as a radio communications device, with all the 
>> standards, certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along with 
>> that.
>>
>> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs 
>> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and 
>> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board.  Then 
>> you can have Wifi configured in any way you like.  A tty to tcp/ip 
>> port converter for remote access should not be difficult to make - 
>> with Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.
> 
> I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.
> 
> However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless 
> adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote PC 
> (here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).
> 
> 

As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules.  There's no point in 
me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was 
three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just 
configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app.  (I was 
communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should 
make little difference.)  There are no doubt a dozen different vendors 
with similar solutions.

You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand 
systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.

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#32051

Il 13/11/2023 13:15, David Brown ha scritto:
> On 13/11/2023 10:39, pozz wrote:
>> Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
>>> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>>>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging 
>>>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a 
>>>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so 
>>>> both TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>>>
>>>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a 
>>>> desktop or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar 
>>>> software, near the device.
>>>>
>>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and 
>>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering 
>>>> if there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in 
>>>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a 
>>>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>>>
>>>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
>>>
>>> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of 
>>> course you need something at the other end.  A couple of Silicon Labs 
>>> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then 
>>> they can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with 
>>> very little effort.
>>>
>>> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have 
>>> one master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a 
>>> bit more work.  And if it is always installed, then suddenly your 
>>> device is classified as a radio communications device, with all the 
>>> standards, certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along 
>>> with that.
>>>
>>> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs 
>>> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and 
>>> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board.  Then 
>>> you can have Wifi configured in any way you like.  A tty to tcp/ip 
>>> port converter for remote access should not be difficult to make - 
>>> with Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.
>>
>> I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.
>>
>> However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless 
>> adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote 
>> PC (here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).
>>
>>
> 
> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules.  There's no point in 
> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was 
> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just 
> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app.  (I was 
> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should 
> make little difference.)  There are no doubt a dozen different vendors 
> with similar solutions.

I will check.

In the meantime, I found many UART/WiFi adapter based on ESP-01 module. 
I think it should be ok.


> You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand 
> systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.

Less than 10 pieces should be ok :-D

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#32052

On 13/11/2023 13:46, pozz wrote:
> Il 13/11/2023 13:15, David Brown ha scritto:

>> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules.  There's no point in 
>> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was 
>> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just 
>> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app.  (I was 
>> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that 
>> should make little difference.)  There are no doubt a dozen different 
>> vendors with similar solutions.
> 
> I will check.
> 
> In the meantime, I found many UART/WiFi adapter based on ESP-01 module. 
> I think it should be ok.
> 

Yes, I would expect it to be easy to get hold of such modules and 
ready-made software for the ESP-32 if you prefer Wifi.

> 
>> You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand 
>> systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.
> 
> Less than 10 pieces should be ok :-D
> 
> 

Just make sure that they are not considered part of the main system that 
you make, so that you don't have to test and certify them.

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#32053

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules.  There's no point in 
> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was 
> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just 
> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app.  (I was 
> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should 
> make little difference.)  There are no doubt a dozen different vendors 
> with similar solutions.

Was it this kind of thing:
https://www.silabs.com/development-tools/wireless/bluetooth/bgm220-explorer-kit?tab=overview

Do you just hook up TX and RX and the default firmware does the rest, or do
you need to program it first?

> You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand 
> systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.

Seems like it's a common thing:
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2479
https://www.waveshare.com/bluetooth-slave-uart-board.htm
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Converter-Wireless-Transceiver-Communication/dp/B08Z3J9Y8T

and I see there are some Chinese versions for about $2 + shipping:
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-bluetooth-uart.html?spm=a2g0o.home.search.0
and for wifi:
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-wifi-uart.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0

It's the kind of thing that's potentially useful to install just in case you
need a recovery console on something like a router, which you can set up
ahead of time so you have access without taking the thing apart when you're
in a jam.  Although not entirely happy with the security model of something
broadcasting its pairing ability all the time when not in use.

Theo

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#32054

Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:

> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. 

Define "far", and "UART"

If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as 
simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.

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#32056

Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@gmail.com> wrote:
>Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:

>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. 

>Define "far", and "UART"

>If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as 
>simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
Or remote control a notebook connected to the devices UART via ssh or
RDP (if you are using Windows).


-- 
Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de

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#32065

Il 15/11/2023 09:16, Peter Heitzer ha scritto:
> Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
> 
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
>>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
> 
>> Define "far", and "UART"
> 
>> If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as
>> simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
> Or remote control a notebook connected to the devices UART via ssh or
> RDP (if you are using Windows).

As I said, the device is difficult to physically reach and it is often 
impossible to install a notebook near it.

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#32064

Il 14/11/2023 19:47, Hans-Bernhard Bröker ha scritto:
> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
> 
>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's 
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. 
> 
> Define "far", 

10-15 meters should be ok

> and "UART"

Standard TX and RX asynchronous signals as in RS232 standard, but at 
UART low level voltages (3.3V or 5V). Baudrates that I often use are the 
standard from 9600bps up to 115.2kbps.


> If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as 
> simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.

The problem with a long cable is often the position of the device that 
is uncomfortable to reach. Moreover, if I want to record a long session 
log (for one or more days), the long cable isn't an option.

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#32066

Am 20.11.2023 um 08:29 schrieb pozz:
> Il 14/11/2023 19:47, Hans-Bernhard Bröker ha scritto:
>> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
>>
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and 
>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection. 
>>
>> Define "far", 
> 
> 10-15 meters should be ok
> 
>> and "UART"
> 
> Standard TX and RX asynchronous signals as in RS232 standard, but at 
> UART low level voltages (3.3V or 5V). Baudrates that I often use are the 
> standard from 9600bps up to 115.2kbps.

Then you need an active device that shifts and boosts signal levels, a 
good deal closer to the machine in question.  A MAX232 equivalent in a 
box small enough to count as a plug casing would probably do it.

> The problem with a long cable is often the position of the device that 
> is uncomfortable to reach. 

"Uncomfortable" should only rule out doing that for use cases at or 
below the urgency of "nice-to-have."

Or, to put it differently: if you can't even get there with a suitable 
plug attached to some thin-ish cable, that puts the situation beyond 
"uncomfortable," into the realm of "practically impossible to use."

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