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Alternative terms for master and slave

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  Alternative terms for master and slave Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 01:32 -0800
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2020-12-15 17:56 +0800
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-12-15 11:57 +0200
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-12-15 17:38 -0500
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 15:33 -0800
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 11:59 +0100
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-15 15:07 +0000
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 16:41 +0100
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-12-15 18:07 +0200
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-15 10:59 -0700
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2020-12-18 15:32 +0100
            Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-18 07:56 -0700
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 08:34 -0800
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 19:57 +0100
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-15 19:13 +0000
            Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-16 08:59 +0100
              Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2020-12-17 17:04 +0000
                Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-17 11:35 -0700
                Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-17 20:25 +0100
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-12-15 21:28 +0200
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-12-15 19:37 +0000
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-12-19 15:41 -0600
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-20 17:39 +0200
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-20 18:17 +0000
            Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-20 23:23 +0200
              Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-20 23:56 +0100
                Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-21 17:29 +0200
                  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-21 23:44 +0100
                    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-22 23:36 +0200
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-15 06:30 -0700
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-15 22:26 +0100
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 08:55 -0800
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 07:30 +0000
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-17 17:58 -0800
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-19 02:03 +0000
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-20 01:08 +0100

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#30187 — Alternative terms for master and slave

It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats, but I have a proposal for a terminology change.

Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob* respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob* what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than *master* and *slave*?

In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a meeting with the Bobs.

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#30188

On 12/15/20 5:32 PM, Brad Eckert wrote:
> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats, but I have a proposal for a terminology change.
> 
> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob* respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob* what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than *master* and *slave*?
> 
> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a meeting with the Bobs.

Two boobs attached to  Alice.

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#30189

On 2020-12-15 11:32, Brad Eckert wrote:
> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the
> tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats,
> but I have a proposal for a terminology change.
> 
> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob*
> respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob*
> what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than
> *master* and *slave*?
> 
> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If
> you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a
> meeting with the Bobs.

My favourite alternative to master - slave is

    boss - body

as in "everyBODY does what the BOSS tells them".

Boss-body has the nice property that both words have the same number of 
letters, so variable names etc. can be nicely aligned in the code :-)

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#30203

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:57:02 +0200, Niklas Holsti
<niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> wrote:

>On 2020-12-15 11:32, Brad Eckert wrote:
>> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the
>> tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats,
>> but I have a proposal for a terminology change.
>> 
>> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob*
>> respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob*
>> what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than
>> *master* and *slave*?
>> 
>> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If
>> you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a
>> meeting with the Bobs.
>
>My favourite alternative to master - slave is
>
>    boss - body
>
>as in "everyBODY does what the BOSS tells them".
>
>Boss-body has the nice property that both words have the same number of 
>letters, so variable names etc. can be nicely aligned in the code :-)

For some in the US, the word "boss" has the same negative connotations
as does "master".

YMMV,
George

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#30204

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 5:38:43 PM UTC-5, George Neuner wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:57:02 +0200, Niklas Holsti 
> <niklas...@tidorum.invalid> wrote: 
> 
> >On 2020-12-15 11:32, Brad Eckert wrote: 
> >> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the 
> >> tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats, 
> >> but I have a proposal for a terminology change. 
> >> 
> >> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob* 
> >> respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob* 
> >> what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than 
> >> *master* and *slave*? 
> >> 
> >> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If 
> >> you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a 
> >> meeting with the Bobs. 
> > 
> >My favourite alternative to master - slave is 
> > 
> > boss - body 
> > 
> >as in "everyBODY does what the BOSS tells them". 
> > 
> >Boss-body has the nice property that both words have the same number of 
> >letters, so variable names etc. can be nicely aligned in the code :-)
> For some in the US, the word "boss" has the same negative connotations 
> as does "master". 

Yes, boss.  

There's a Chinese restaurant I eat at when I charge the car.  The lady at the counter calls me "boss".  I guess that's a polite formality.  I should tell her to call me Rick. 

-- 

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 

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#30190

On 15/12/2020 10:32, Brad Eckert wrote:
> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the
> tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats,
> but I have a proposal for a terminology change.
> 
> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob*
> respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob*
> what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than
> *master* and *slave*?
> 
> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If
> you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a
> meeting with the Bobs.
> 

The software world is full of terms that can offend people if people
choose to be offended.  Just look at processes on *nix systems - you get
daemons and zombies, you stop a process by killing it, parent processes
can't die until all their children are dead (or else the children turn
into zombies), and so on.  I remember someone on my CSP course at
university complaining about the terms "angelic choice" and "demonic
choice".

And of course in electronics we have male connectors and female connectors.

Perhaps black and white photography should be renamed to "shades of grey" ?


No, "master" and "slave" are not being phased out except by a few
companies where some PR twats can't understand that their thoughtless
eagerness to be "politically correct" actually offends people more than
leaving things as they are with convenient and practical names.

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#30192

On 2020-12-15, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> And of course in electronics we have male connectors and female connectors.

I remember about 35 years ago, when I said something about a male or
female connector within earshot of my girlfriend. She asked why
they're called male and female and how do you decide which is which?

I picked up two connectors, showed them to her and then plugged them
together.

She was horrified.

--
Grant

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#30193

On 15/12/2020 16:07, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2020-12-15, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> 
>> And of course in electronics we have male connectors and female connectors.
> 
> I remember about 35 years ago, when I said something about a male or
> female connector within earshot of my girlfriend. She asked why
> they're called male and female and how do you decide which is which?
> 
> I picked up two connectors, showed them to her and then plugged them
> together.
> 
> She was horrified.
> 

I can understand these things being a surprise, or possibly even
offensive, to people unfamiliar with the particular field.  But when the
terms are everyday technical terms, people using them do not associate
them with the same things.  When you decide if the coax connector on a
board is to be male or female, you are thinking about the physical
connector - not human body parts.  (You might think about human body
parts next time you do have a connector - but that is only because we
have been discussing them in that way.)

You have a similar effect in human language with swearing.  People never
mean these /literally/, or think about the real meaning of the words
when they swear.  (It can be fun when first seeing swear words in
different languages, if you translate them literally because you don't
know they are common curses.)

For people who work with SPI buses, talking about an "SPI master" and an
"SPI slave" makes them think of microcontrollers and eeproms, not a
scene from "Gone with the Wind" or "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom".

And if someone thinks it is a problem that the words "master" and
"slave" (or "male" and "female") are used in these contexts, then they
should stay out of that kind of conversation - they don't understand it
anyway.

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#30194

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:59:36 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

>On 15/12/2020 10:32, Brad Eckert wrote:
>> It seems the terms *master* and *slave* are being phased out of the
>> tech lexicon with help from Google. I know this is like herding cats,
>> but I have a proposal for a terminology change.
>> 
>> Just replace *master* and *slave* with *Alice* and *Bob*
>> respectively. *Bob* attaches to *Alice* and then *Alice* tells *Bob*
>> what to do, so it's easy to remember. Isn't that more fun than
>> *master* and *slave*?
>> 
>> In SPI terminology, *mosi* and *miso* become *aobi* and *aibo*. If
>> you have multiple Bobs on the bus, it gets better. Alice has a
>> meeting with the Bobs.
>> 
>
>The software world is full of terms that can offend people if people
>choose to be offended.  Just look at processes on *nix systems - you get
>daemons and zombies, you stop a process by killing it, parent processes
>can't die until all their children are dead (or else the children turn
>into zombies), and so on.  I remember someone on my CSP course at
>university complaining about the terms "angelic choice" and "demonic
>choice".

Some might also be offended by running Ethernet controller in
promiscuous mode, accepting all packets.

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#30197

On 12/15/2020 9:07 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

>> The software world is full of terms that can offend people if people
>> choose to be offended.  Just look at processes on *nix systems - you get
>> daemons and zombies, you stop a process by killing it, parent processes
>> can't die until all their children are dead (or else the children turn
>> into zombies), and so on.  I remember someone on my CSP course at
>> university complaining about the terms "angelic choice" and "demonic
>> choice".
> 
> Some might also be offended by running Ethernet controller in
> promiscuous mode, accepting all packets.

In the trade, the opposite of "Generic" is "Ethical".  Interesting
choice of word!

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#30223

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:59:40 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>In the trade, the opposite of "Generic" is "Ethical".  Interesting
>choice of word!

Are you sure?

"Ethical" and "ethnical" may look similar, but have very different
meaning.
-- 
RoRo

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#30224

On 12/18/2020 7:32 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:59:40 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> In the trade, the opposite of "Generic" is "Ethical".  Interesting
>> choice of word!
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> "Ethical" and "ethnical" may look similar, but have very different
> meaning.

"Ethical" drugs are aka "prescription" drugs (in the US), for
hysterical raisins.  Their production, sale and dispensing are
regulated.  (other "medications" have less stringent restrictions)

Drugs that have gone "off patent" are produced by others
(beyond the "innovators") as "generic" drugs.  These are the same
medications (possibly minor "inert" differences in formulations
having to do with the production process) but, usually, at a reduced
sell price (the "generic" manufacturer doesn't have to bear the cost
of drug development and testing).

The lay public calls the former "brand name" but, old-timers in the
industry still resort to the use of "ethical" to differentiate
(though ALL are technically "ethical" in the "prescription" sense
of the word)

[I first heard this at a trade conference, many years ago.  I
turned to my boss and commented, "Wow!  What a sleight against
the generic industry!  (ethical suggests unethical)".  This, of
course, isn't the STATED intent...  though I suspect the ethical
producers aren't real keen on the generic houses!]

<https://pharmachemicalscoatings.blogspot.com/2007/12/challenges-to-ethical-and-generic-drug.html>

<https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM196110122651511>

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#30195

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 5:59:42 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> >
> The software world is full of terms that can offend people if people 
> choose to be offended. 

Sorry, I stopped listening to you after you showed extreme ignorance.  

Yeah, people can be offended by things we think of as innocent.  I recall a female assembler being offended by the use of the terms male and female for connectors.  I tried to reason with her for a bit, then I asked, "OK, what should we call them?"  That completely changed the tone of the conversation and we worked something out. 

I don't recall the terms we came up with, but the conversation made her happy and we never had that conversation again.  Win-win.  

-- 

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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#30198

On 15/12/2020 17:34, Rick C wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 5:59:42 AM UTC-5, David Brown
> wrote:
>>> 
>> The software world is full of terms that can offend people if
>> people choose to be offended.
> 
> Sorry, I stopped listening to you after you showed extreme ignorance.
> 
Fortunately, I choose not to be offended by these terms :-)

> 
> Yeah, people can be offended by things we think of as innocent.  I
> recall a female assembler being offended by the use of the terms male
> and female for connectors.  I tried to reason with her for a bit,
> then I asked, "OK, what should we call them?"  That completely
> changed the tone of the conversation and we worked something out.
> 

That's it.  Master/slave, and other such "non-PC" terms do a perfectly
good job.  They are a lot better than Alice and Bob - those are terms
from cryptography, rather than SPI buses.

> I don't recall the terms we came up with, but the conversation made
> her happy and we never had that conversation again.  Win-win.
> 

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#30199

On 2020-12-15, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> That's it.  Master/slave, and other such "non-PC" terms do a perfectly
> good job.  They are a lot better than Alice and Bob - those are terms
> from cryptography, rather than SPI buses.

I assumed that the whole Alice/Bob thing was a joke...

--
Grant

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#30205

On 15/12/2020 20:13, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2020-12-15, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> 
>> That's it.  Master/slave, and other such "non-PC" terms do a perfectly
>> good job.  They are a lot better than Alice and Bob - those are terms
>> from cryptography, rather than SPI buses.
> 
> I assumed that the whole Alice/Bob thing was a joke...
> 

I assume so too (though these names /are/ used in cryptography), but
they are fine examples of what you get when you try to pick terms that
have no connotations of one thing controlling other things.  And
unfortunately it is no joke that some people and companies are trying to
change terms like master/slave in technical usage.

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#30217

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> I assume so too (though these names /are/ used in cryptography), but
> they are fine examples of what you get when you try to pick terms that
> have no connotations of one thing controlling other things.  And
> unfortunately it is no joke that some people and companies are trying to
> change terms like master/slave in technical usage.

IMHO words are just words.  We could call the things A and B, Alice and Bob,
aadvark and buzzard, it doesn't really matter.

However, it may be the existing choice of words is upsetting to some people. 
If that's the case, perhaps they should suggest some new words.  If we find
some words that are less upsetting all round, that's a win.

Some people say 'well I'm not upset by them so why should we change?'.
And of course if you don't see the problem, why would you be motivated to do
so?  So why not leave it to those who want to propose some better
ones, and let's adopt those?

What it doesn't need is to blow it up into a culture war demonising about
'those people undermining XYZ values' and seek to defend the pre-existing
state of affairs just because it was pre-existing, rather than any intrinsic
merits of the situation.

Theo

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#30218

On 12/17/2020 10:04 AM, Theo wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> I assume so too (though these names /are/ used in cryptography), but
>> they are fine examples of what you get when you try to pick terms that
>> have no connotations of one thing controlling other things.  And
>> unfortunately it is no joke that some people and companies are trying to
>> change terms like master/slave in technical usage.
> 
> IMHO words are just words.  We could call the things A and B, Alice and Bob,
> aadvark and buzzard, it doesn't really matter.

Of course it does!  Words are meant to convey ideas/concepts.  We choose
words that map neatly to the concepts that we're trying to discuss.

Should all variable names be of the form "V<integer>"?  How much harder
would that make sorting out the intent of a particular coded algorithm?

We could call the horizontal axis "gertrude" and vertical axis "banana";
I wonder how long it would take for folks to get THOSE straight in their minds?
And, what /mnemonic aids/ would they develop to facilitate that?  (i.e.,
how would they MAP those names to REAL concepts?)

> However, it may be the existing choice of words is upsetting to some people.
> If that's the case, perhaps they should suggest some new words.  If we find
> some words that are less upsetting all round, that's a win.

The time for that is before the concepts are codified and the terms
(to be REPLACED) widely circulated.  You don't, now, decide that we should
call all these electronic computing devices "thinkatrons" (TmReg).
Imagine the hassle trying to reinterpret previous literature in light of this
ARBITRARILY newer name!

> Some people say 'well I'm not upset by them so why should we change?'.
> And of course if you don't see the problem, why would you be motivated to do
> so?  So why not leave it to those who want to propose some better
> ones, and let's adopt those?

Again, why?  Should we decide black has bad connotations for use as a ground
conductor (esp given that it is the HOT conductor in AC mains)?  Maybe we
should just rename that color as "fred", going forward!

> What it doesn't need is to blow it up into a culture war demonising about
> 'those people undermining XYZ values' and seek to defend the pre-existing
> state of affairs just because it was pre-existing, rather than any intrinsic
> merits of the situation.

Times (and attitudes) change.  Do we keep rewriting our history to comply
with the current set of pleasantries?  Or, do we adjust things GOING FORWARD
to reflect current sensibilities and learn to live with that which has come
before as a sign of our evolution?

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#30219

On 17/12/2020 18:04, Theo wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> I assume so too (though these names /are/ used in cryptography), but
>> they are fine examples of what you get when you try to pick terms that
>> have no connotations of one thing controlling other things.  And
>> unfortunately it is no joke that some people and companies are trying to
>> change terms like master/slave in technical usage.
> 
> IMHO words are just words.  We could call the things A and B, Alice and Bob,
> aadvark and buzzard, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> However, it may be the existing choice of words is upsetting to some people. 
> If that's the case, perhaps they should suggest some new words.  If we find
> some words that are less upsetting all round, that's a win.
> 
> Some people say 'well I'm not upset by them so why should we change?'.
> And of course if you don't see the problem, why would you be motivated to do
> so?  So why not leave it to those who want to propose some better
> ones, and let's adopt those?
> 
> What it doesn't need is to blow it up into a culture war demonising about
> 'those people undermining XYZ values' and seek to defend the pre-existing
> state of affairs just because it was pre-existing, rather than any intrinsic
> merits of the situation.
> 

That's all fine.

But what we have with terms such as master/slave bus nodes is that none
(to my knowledge) of the people using them are upset by them, nor are
people who might reasonably be bothered by such words (people who have
been slaves, or had some connection to people who have been slaves).
The people getting their knickers in a twist about these terms are
over-active extremist "social justice warriors" who are not content with
finding things that bother people, but are telling people what should
bother them.  (I have nothing against social justice or political
correctness - I'm ready to fight against all sorts of bigotry or
injustice.  But I am against extremism in any guise - too much of a good
thing is very rarely still a good thing.)

If I were to hear someone say "You know theses boards we are designing?
 It bothers me that some nodes are referred to as master nodes and some
as slave nodes", I'd look for new terms.  If I were to hear "You know
these wireless speakers you make that come in master/slave pairs?  Those
names bother me, because I have often been told that we black people
should still be slaves", I'd look for new terms.

If I hear that people are /actually/ bothered by the use of these terms
in my work or my field, then I'll try to change them.  But until that
time, I see no benefit in changed well-known and well-understood terms
to things without meaning that will cause confusion, error and
unnecessary work.

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#30200

On 2020-12-15 18:34, Rick C wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 5:59:42 AM UTC-5, David Brown
> wrote:
>>> 
>> The software world is full of terms that can offend people if
>> people choose to be offended.
> 
> Sorry, I stopped listening to you after you showed extreme
> ignorance.
> 
> Yeah, people can be offended by things we think of as innocent.  I
> recall a female assembler being offended by the use of the terms male
> and female for connectors.  I tried to reason with her for a bit,
> then I asked, "OK, what should we call them?"  That completely
> changed the tone of the conversation and we worked something out.
> 
> I don't recall the terms we came up with, but the conversation made
> her happy and we never had that conversation again.  Win-win.
"Pin" and "socket" should be clear and offend no-one.

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