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Tone Deafness

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  Tone Deafness Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-08-14 17:24 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2013-08-14 15:43 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2013-08-14 17:18 -0800
      Re: Tone Deafness David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-08-15 08:53 +0200
      Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-15 08:48 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 10:17 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 12:09 +0100
        Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 10:47 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:44 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-08-14 22:51 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.com> - 2013-08-14 23:53 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 00:05 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 00:13 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-15 05:46 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-14 23:31 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2013-08-14 16:14 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-08-14 18:58 -0500
        Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 09:22 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 07:53 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> - 2013-08-15 08:18 -0700
          Re: Tone Deafness "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2013-08-22 12:27 +0200
    Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-14 17:15 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-14 17:21 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 02:11 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-14 18:29 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-14 22:51 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2013-08-14 21:34 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-14 23:07 -0500
        Re: Tone Deafness "P E Schoen" <paul@peschoen.com> - 2013-08-15 21:48 -0400
        Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:42 +0000
          Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-28 16:38 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 09:24 +0100
        Re: Tone Deafness pippo2@disney.com (Jack) - 2013-08-15 10:48 +0200
          Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 10:24 +0100
            Re: Tone Deafness Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 14:00 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-14 22:25 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-15 05:42 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-15 10:23 -0400
    Re: Tone Deafness "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> - 2013-08-15 08:30 -0400
      Re: Tone Deafness nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) - 2013-08-15 19:07 +0000
        Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-15 15:40 -0400
          Re: Tone Deafness "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> - 2013-08-16 22:23 -0400
            Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-17 04:26 -0400
              Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-18 05:00 +0000
              Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:48 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-15 15:48 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-08-15 19:55 -0400
          Re: Tone Deafness Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-08-16 09:30 +0200
          Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-16 13:47 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net> - 2013-08-16 01:50 -0400
          Re: Tone Deafness Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-16 10:16 -0500
        Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-16 09:16 +0100
        Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:50 +0000
          Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-28 19:44 -0700
            Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-29 09:26 +0000
              Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-29 09:17 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Ecnerwal <MyNameForward@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> - 2013-08-15 12:05 -0400
      Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 17:29 +0100
        Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 18:00 +0100
        Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 11:16 -0700
          Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-16 02:56 +0000
            Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 21:47 -0700
              Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-17 16:36 +0000
                Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-17 11:49 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness NotReallyMe <nrm@vallidatedsoftware.com> - 2013-08-16 10:23 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-16 17:29 +0000
        Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-17 04:32 -0400
        Re: Tone Deafness "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2013-08-22 13:10 +0200
    Re: Tone Deafness Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com> - 2013-08-20 13:18 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-25 23:49 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-26 01:21 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-26 07:01 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-28 03:51 +0000

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#13101

Nico Coesel wrote:
> 
> "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Tim Wescott wrote:
> >> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
> >> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
> >> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
> >> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
> >> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
> >>
> >> Needless to say, this is irritating.
> >>
> >> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
> >> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
> >> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
> >> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
> >> equipment?
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
> >> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
> >> only with sound.
> >
> >Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
> >
> >My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound
> >GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no.
> >Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
> 
> better then a similar alert it is so cold the road could be
> slippery...


   Dirty enough windows could get you killed.  Ever had a big truck hit
some mud and splatter so much on your windows that you can't see
anything?


-- 
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

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#13125

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Nico Coesel wrote:
> >
> > "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and
> > > then sound GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the
> > > driver jump.  "Oh, no. Something serious."  The info display
> > > gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
> >
> > better then a similar alert it is so cold the road could be
> > slippery...
>
>
>   Dirty enough windows could get you killed.  Ever had a big truck hit
> some mud and splatter so much on your windows that you can't see
> anything?

So maybe it could sound off when stopped, instead of creating the impression 
it's the sort of thing that breaks at higher speeds.


-- 

Reply in group, but if emailing remove the last word. 

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#13126

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> 
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > Nico Coesel wrote:
> > >
> > > "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and
> > > > then sound GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the
> > > > driver jump.  "Oh, no. Something serious."  The info display
> > > > gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
> > >
> > > better then a similar alert it is so cold the road could be
> > > slippery...
> >
> >
> >   Dirty enough windows could get you killed.  Ever had a big truck hit
> > some mud and splatter so much on your windows that you can't see
> > anything?
> 
> So maybe it could sound off when stopped, instead of creating the impression
> it's the sort of thing that breaks at higher speeds.


   LCD displays are cheap enough that they could use one to display the
actual problem rather than just an idiot light that says 'CHECK
ENGINE'.  A 16x2 would do, but a 20x4 would be better.  Use the aural
alarm to alert you to the problem, with one of two distinct signals for
immediate problems, and ones that need attention soon.  If the engine is
low on oil, or overheating you can't wait.  Other low fluids can damage
the vehicle, but I don't need a 'CHECK ENGINE' light coming on to tell
me the Freon level is low.  If it's already lit for that minor problem,
it can't alert you to more important things.


-- 
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

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#13132

On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:26:57 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


> 
>    LCD displays are cheap enough that they could use one to display the
> actual problem rather than just an idiot light that says 'CHECK ENGINE'.
> A 16x2 would do, but a 20x4 would be better.  Use the aural alarm to
> alert you to the problem, with one of two distinct signals for immediate
> problems, and ones that need attention soon.  If the engine is low on
> oil, or overheating you can't wait.  Other low fluids can damage the
> vehicle, but I don't need a 'CHECK ENGINE' light coming on to tell me
> the Freon level is low.  If it's already lit for that minor problem, it
> can't alert you to more important things.
>

This is one of the major issues addressed (rather extensively) by MIL-
STD-1472.

It is free for the asking, though reasonably long (about 100 pages IIRC)

?-)

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#13214

In comp.arch.embedded Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

> If it's already lit for that minor problem, it can't alert you 
> to more important things.

Suzuki Hayabusa (a motorcycle) has two levels of "check engine" (actually 
"FI") importance. When the "FI" LED lights steady, it's a minor problem 
and you can ride, ECU just substituted the signal from a failed sensor 
with a reasonable constant. When it flashes, it's fatal and engine is 
stopped.

AW

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#13107

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:

>
>Tim Wescott wrote:
>> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
>> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
>> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
>> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
>> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
>>
>> Needless to say, this is irritating.
>>
>> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
>> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
>> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
>> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
>> equipment?
>>
>> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
>> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
>> only with sound.
>
>Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
>
>My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound 
>GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no. 
>Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."

Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
(What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
while cars going the other way are zipping around you...

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#13108

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:48:03 -0700, the renowned Charlie E.
<edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
><tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
>>> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
>>> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
>>> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
>>> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
>>>
>>> Needless to say, this is irritating.
>>>
>>> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
>>> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
>>> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
>>> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
>>> equipment?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
>>> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
>>> only with sound.
>>
>>Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
>>
>>My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound 
>>GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no. 
>>Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
>
>Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
>'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
>you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
>yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
>suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
>to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
>kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
>middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
>(What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
>while cars going the other way are zipping around you...

What make has this lovely bit of firmware? 

Many seem to just quit, no warning, presumably to protect the
injectors from clogging due to crud at the bottom of the tank. 


Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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#13113

In comp.arch.embedded,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:48:03 -0700, the renowned Charlie E.
><edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
>>'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
>>you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
>>yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
>>suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
>>to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
>>kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
>>middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
>>(What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
>>while cars going the other way are zipping around you...
>
> What make has this lovely bit of firmware? 
>
> Many seem to just quit, no warning, presumably to protect the
> injectors from clogging due to crud at the bottom of the tank. 

Many just quit from a lack of fuel. ;-)

But if they quit before the tank is completely empty, that would at best
protect from sucking op crud that floats on top of the fuel. The intake
pipe is always at the bottom of the tank, so crud from the bottom will
also get sucked in with a full tank. Luckily, most have an intake filter.


-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.

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#13122

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:55:32 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:48:03 -0700, the renowned Charlie E.
><edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
>><tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Tim Wescott wrote:
>>>> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
>>>> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
>>>> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
>>>> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
>>>> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
>>>>
>>>> Needless to say, this is irritating.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
>>>> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
>>>> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
>>>> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
>>>> equipment?
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
>>>> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
>>>> only with sound.
>>>
>>>Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
>>>
>>>My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound 
>>>GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no. 
>>>Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
>>
>>Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
>>'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
>>you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
>>yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
>>suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
>>to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
>>kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
>>middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
>>(What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
>>while cars going the other way are zipping around you...
>
>What make has this lovely bit of firmware? 
>
>Many seem to just quit, no warning, presumably to protect the
>injectors from clogging due to crud at the bottom of the tank. 
>
>
>Best regards, 
>Spehro Pefhany

It is a 2005 VW Jetta!

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#13112

In article <mdmq091q09adj9jvhguto1kapt3fmfvn94@4ax.com>, 
edmondson@ieee.org says...
> 
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Tim Wescott wrote:
> >> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
> >> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
> >> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
> >> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
> >> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
> >>
> >> Needless to say, this is irritating.
> >>
> >> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
> >> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
> >> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
> >> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
> >> equipment?
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
> >> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
> >> only with sound.
> >
> >Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
> >
> >My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound 
> >GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no. 
> >Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
> 
> Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
> 'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
> you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
> yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
> suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
> to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
> kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
> middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
> (What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
> while cars going the other way are zipping around you...

My favorite is a feature on Ford vehicles. You can speed limit the car. 
I found this out when I rented a Ford Focus from ZipCar. I'm a left 
lane, heavy footed driver and so I punched the accelerator. It limits at 
80MPH and it warns you as it gets toward that limit. 

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#13115

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 01:50:15 -0400, T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
wrote:

>In article <mdmq091q09adj9jvhguto1kapt3fmfvn94@4ax.com>, 
>edmondson@ieee.org says...
>> 
>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
>> <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> >Tim Wescott wrote:
>> >> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to
>> >> green and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the
>> >> difference between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment
>> >> that depends on the operator being able to see the color of a
>> >> bi-color LED is totally useless to me.
>> >>
>> >> Needless to say, this is irritating.
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
>> >> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of
>> >> tune, but people who are unable to tell the difference between a
>> >> "beep" and a "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic
>> >> equipment?
>> >>
>> >> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
>> >> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone,
>> >> only with sound.
>> >
>> >Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.
>> >
>> >My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound 
>> >GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no. 
>> >Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."
>> 
>> Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
>> 'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
>> you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
>> yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
>> suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen
>> to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
>> kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the
>> middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
>> (What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
>> while cars going the other way are zipping around you...
>
>My favorite is a feature on Ford vehicles. You can speed limit the car. 
>I found this out when I rented a Ford Focus from ZipCar. I'm a left 
>lane, heavy footed driver and so I punched the accelerator. It limits at 
>80MPH and it warns you as it gets toward that limit. 


It's not on all Ford vehicles, and is also available on vehicles from
a variety of other manufacturers.  There are also innumerable
aftermarket kits you can install to do the same thing.  Primary market
is parents, rental agencies, and fleet users.  In some locations such
things are required by law for larger vehicles (for example all larger
trucks and busses in the UK all have a speed governor limiting them to
90 km/h*), although those tend not to be (end-user) programmable like
the typical ones for cars.

There have even been examples where different keys had different
limits.  Some Corvettes limited the speed and engine power when
started with the valet key, for example.

Some other cars have taken a monitoring approach instead - at least
one model of BMW allowed you to set a limit, and if it was exceeded,
an indicator on the dash would light and stay lit until it was reset
(which needed a password).  So it wouldn't prevent your kid from going
fast, but you'd know about it the next time you drove the car.


*FSVO "all": The limit has changed over time, and I don't know what
the grandfathering rules are, so it's possible some older vehicles
with slightly higher limits are still on the road, plus there are
vehicles that have a lower limit.

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#13114

On 15/08/2013 23:48, Charlie E. wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:30:20 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Everyone can tell beep-beep from beep.

Only if they catch the first beep.
Single tone vs modulated tone is better and for long enough to be clear.
>>
>> My car is programmed to wait until it is going pretty fast, and then sound
>> GONG-GONG-GONG (yeah, 3 times and loud) to make the driver jump.  "Oh, no.
>> Something serious."  The info display gives details.  "Washer fluid low."

Mine will do that for frost alert which seems quite reasonable to me.
Not sure what it does for low oil warning yet - this is the first car I 
have had with electronic only indication and no physical dip stick.

> Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
> 'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments, so that
> you are aware that you are getting low on gas, but are not on reserve
> yet. It is fun enough when you are just cruising down the road to
> suddenly start slowing down for no apparent reason, but if you happen

That is scary. What model of car has such an insane behaviour?

Mine has a warning light that goes beep with 100 mile range remaining 
and will beep every time the car is started when range is below 100.

> to be accellerating, say from a stop at a red light, it will actually
> kill the engine!  Real fun to find your self stopping dead in the

How does that work? Engine management should never allow a modern car 
engine to stall on an automatic. My (manual clutch) car has smarts to 
switch the engine off when it is stationary at traffic lights.

> middle of a busy intersection trying to get your car to start again
> (What?  Did you remember you need to be in Park to start the car?)
> while cars going the other way are zipping around you...
>
I once had a weird immobiliser fault that did that to us in a busy 
intersection - nothing to do apart from get out and wait for a tow 
truck. The fault never recurred but failed unit was referred to the 
maker as the local repair guy couldn't do a satisfactory reset on it.

With no electrics you can't even put the hazard flashers on!

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

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#13215

In comp.arch.embedded Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:

> Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
> 'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments,

Are you sure that it's a firmware feature and not just fuel pressure 
issue?

AW

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#13221

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 18:50:52 +0000 (UTC), gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam
Wysocki) wrote:

>In comp.arch.embedded Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Even better is my car.  When it hits around an eighth of a tank, it
>> 'stutters', i.e. it reduces the throttle for a few moments,
>
>Are you sure that it's a firmware feature and not just fuel pressure 
>issue?
>
>AW

That would be a very odd fuel pressure issue, to have a problem for a
moment, and then not have it again if you continue driving!

Charlie

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#13229

In comp.arch.embedded Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:

>>Are you sure that it's a firmware feature and not just fuel pressure 
>>issue?
> 
> That would be a very odd fuel pressure issue, to have a problem for a
> moment, and then not have it again if you continue driving!

Maybe strange, but I'd check it in the first place. Have you talked to 
someone with the same car to ask if he noticed similar behavior?

AW

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#13235

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:26:58 +0000 (UTC), gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam
Wysocki) wrote:

>In comp.arch.embedded Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>>>Are you sure that it's a firmware feature and not just fuel pressure 
>>>issue?
>> 
>> That would be a very odd fuel pressure issue, to have a problem for a
>> moment, and then not have it again if you continue driving!
>
>Maybe strange, but I'd check it in the first place. Have you talked to 
>someone with the same car to ask if he noticed similar behavior?
>
>AW

Don't know of anyone with the same car!  ;-)

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#13095

In article <WPGdneG5cYUrnpHPnZ2dnUVZ5ugAAAAA@giganews.com>,
 Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:

> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to green 
> and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the difference 
> between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment that depends on 
> the operator being able to see the color of a bi-color LED is totally 
> useless to me.
> 
> Needless to say, this is irritating.
> 
> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone 
> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of tune, 
> but people who are unable to tell the difference between a "beep" and a 
> "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic equipment?
> 
> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious 
> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone, only 
> with sound.

If you want to cover _everyone_, you have to get multi-modal.

The simple solution to your status problem for the non-blind (colorblind 
fine) is, of course, two LEDS NOT in the same package. If you were 
contemplating a third state corresponding to amber in a bicolor, that 
can be a third LED or just both LEDs on at once, depending how 
counter-intuitive both on at once would be.

Unless the device is actually bursting into flames, or will in a few 
seconds, "beeps" and "boops" make _me_ want to use a hammer on it until 
it shuts the "<bleep>" up. _Irritating_ is in the eye or ear of the 
beholder/behearer. They are also hard as heck to write documentation for 
- without a reference sound, one man's text-written "beep" is another 
fellow's text-written "boop." So you need some way to disambiguate the 
audio/written and audible. If your target market is geeks who understand 
R2D2 without a translator, you're all set.

If I were blind, I'd no doubt feel rather differently. But deaf folks 
would not be fond of beeps and boops, either.

-- 
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

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#13096

On 15/08/2013 17:05, Ecnerwal wrote:
> In article <WPGdneG5cYUrnpHPnZ2dnUVZ5ugAAAAA@giganews.com>,
>   Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:
>
>> Like a good percentage of human males, I'm partially color blind to green
>> and red.  In my case, it's enough that I can't tell the difference
>> between a green or a red LED -- so a piece of equipment that depends on
>> the operator being able to see the color of a bi-color LED is totally
>> useless to me.
>>
>> Needless to say, this is irritating.
>>
>> Does anyone on the group know how many people are really, truly tone
>> deaf?  I don't just mean unable to hear when they're playing out of tune,
>> but people who are unable to tell the difference between a "beep" and a
>> "boop" when it's coming out of a piece of electronic equipment?
>>
>> I'm thinking of communicating status via a beeper, and for obvious
>> reasons I don't want to do the same "bicolor LED" crap to someone, only
>> with sound.
>
> If you want to cover _everyone_, you have to get multi-modal.
>
> The simple solution to your status problem for the non-blind (colorblind
> fine) is, of course, two LEDS NOT in the same package. If you were
> contemplating a third state corresponding to amber in a bicolor, that
> can be a third LED or just both LEDs on at once, depending how
> counter-intuitive both on at once would be.
>
> Unless the device is actually bursting into flames, or will in a few
> seconds, "beeps" and "boops" make _me_ want to use a hammer on it until
> it shuts the "<bleep>" up. _Irritating_ is in the eye or ear of the
> beholder/behearer. They are also hard as heck to write documentation for
> - without a reference sound, one man's text-written "beep" is another
> fellow's text-written "boop." So you need some way to disambiguate the
> audio/written and audible. If your target market is geeks who understand
> R2D2 without a translator, you're all set.
>
> If I were blind, I'd no doubt feel rather differently. But deaf folks
> would not be fond of beeps and boops, either.

I don't known about it in the US but over here supermarket scanners make 
some really annoying beeps and buzzes when scanning in items but it is 
as nothing to the dreaded high pitched mechanical voice which mutters 
the curious phrase "unexpected item in the bagging area".

Also be careful how annoying you make the sound - aircraft cockpit 
sounders have it about right to grab attention but not paralyse the crew 
into inaction or worse still forcing them to look up how to disable the 
wretched alarm so that they can hear themselves think.

The latter was apparently the fate of the unfortunate Three Mile Island 
operators who were faced with multiple failure alarms and klaxons going 
off left right and centre. They were well aware they had big trouble and 
didn't need to spend all that extra time consulting manuals and fighting 
the instrumentation to get the alarm sounders cancelled.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

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#13097

On 15/08/13 17:29, Martin Brown wrote:

> Also be careful how annoying you make the sound - aircraft cockpit sounders have it about right to grab attention but not paralyse the crew into inaction or worse still forcing them to look up how to
> disable the wretched alarm so that they can hear themselves think.

It is very easy to ignore the audible warnings:
  - my daughter does it all the time
  - it is a standard story to hear of gliders screeching
    on the downwind leg, so that everybody except the
    pilot realises they have forgotten to lower the
    undercarriage :)


> The latter was apparently the fate of the unfortunate Three Mile Island operators who were faced with multiple failure alarms and klaxons going off left right and centre. They were well aware they had
> big trouble and didn't need to spend all that extra time consulting manuals and fighting the instrumentation to get the alarm sounders cancelled.

My understanding is that the real problem was that there
were so many error indications that they couldn't determine
the root cause of them all. That's subtly different.

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#13099

Hi Martin,

On 8/15/2013 9:29 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

> Also be careful how annoying you make the sound - aircraft cockpit
> sounders have it about right to grab attention but not paralyse the crew
> into inaction or worse still forcing them to look up how to disable the
> wretched alarm so that they can hear themselves think.

The character of the sound can be changed to suit its intent.
E.g., "you have a phone call" can be far less insistent than
"the house is on fire".  "System operational" more subtle
than "Oh, Crap!  Something's fried!".

I've designed products that played a gentle, unobtrusive little tune
after POST as an indication that they were ready to operate and all
diagnostics had passed successfully.  Yet, would "blow raspberries" if
something had failed in the test.  People (users) can become accustomed
to a pleasant little annunciator (and learn to *miss* it if they
fail to hear it as expected).  And, similarly, *alarmed* when
confronted with some discordant mess!

[Trick is making it *subtle* so it doesn't become annoying -- like
*all* of the Windows sign-on "melodies"!]

> The latter was apparently the fate of the unfortunate Three Mile Island
> operators who were faced with multiple failure alarms and klaxons going
> off left right and centre. They were well aware they had big trouble and
> didn't need to spend all that extra time consulting manuals and fighting
> the instrumentation to get the alarm sounders cancelled.

Experimenting with "audio displays" (i.e., where you *want* to use
audio as the primary communication medium), I've pretty much
concluded that a "normal person" can handle three audio channels
concurrently -- provided they have different types of content.

We're all used to dealing with "background noise".  Whether it
is chatter of colleagues, guests at a party or background music,
etc.

On top of this, we can *focus* (consciously!) on a specific audio
interchange:  a conversation with another party, the sound from
a TV program, etc.

Finally, we can tolerate *terse* (!) interruptions/annunciators
that are *intended* to distract us (even if we would prefer NOT
to be distracted).   A ringing doorbell/phone, a kid wanting
to "go to Tommy's house", an item crashing to the floor, etc.

The "interruption" channel tries to "steal our focus" (i.e.,
become the "foreground channel" that we are actively engaged
with).  If we accept this altered focus, we relegate the
previous foreground/focus channel to another level of
"background" where it may disappear in the noise, etc.

The problem seems to be when our attention is *tugged* in different
directions simultaneously -- or nearly simultaneously.  E.g., the
phone ringing coincident with a dish falling onto the floor.  At
these times, background and foreground seem to fall from
consideration as we try to sort out everything that is happening
"at once".

Managing this "interruptions" channel is then the primary design
issue.  I.e., if you've already signaled a *fire*, it's probably
not wise to try to bother the listener with a notification that
"the phone is ringing"!  (that will just be a distraction and
lead to "overload")

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many (any?) hard and fast
rules regarding how frequent "events" can enter this channel.
And, the ability of a user/listener to actively manage that
event space seems to vary over time, activity, age, etc.

[I have a friend who can't pick black marbles out of a bag of
mixed black and white marbles if you talk to him while he is
performing this (mindless?) task!  Other folks can't tell
you which relative direction an alarm was sounded while doing
any sort of task that requires more than the slightest
concentration.]

<shrug>

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