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Re: Makefile or IDE?

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Am 11.12.2021 um 18:47 schrieb Hans-Bernhard Bröker:
> Am 11.12.2021 um 10:01 schrieb Stefan Reuther:
>> Am 10.12.2021 um 18:35 schrieb Hans-Bernhard Bröker:
>>> But let's face it: we very rarely even look at object files, much less
>>> work on them in any meaningful fashion.  They just have to be somewhere,
>>> but it's no particular burden at all if they're all in a single folder,
>>> per primary build target.
>>
>> But sometimes, we do look at them. Especially in an embedded context.
> 
> In my experience, looking at individual object files does not occur in
> embedded context any more often than in others.

Neither in my experience, but this is because I look at individual
object files even for desktop/server applications, but I don't expect
that to be the rule :)

>> Or to
>> answer the question "how much code size do I pay for using this C++
>> feature?". "Did the compiler correctly inline this function I expected
>> it to inline?".
> 
> Both of those are way easier to check in the debugger or in the mapfile,
> than by inspecting individual object files.

For me, 'objdump -dr blah.o | less' or 'nm blah.o | awk ...' is the
easiest way to answer such questions. The output of 'objdump | less' is
much easier to handle than gdb's 'disas'. And how do you even get
function sizes with a debugger?

>> And if the linker gives me a "duplicate definition" error, I prefer that
>> it is located in 'editor.o', not '3d3901cdeade62df1565f9616e607f89.o'.
> 
> Both are equally useless. You want to know which source file they're in,
> not which object files.

I want to know in what translation unit they are in. It doesn't help to
know that the duplicate definition comes from 'keys.inc' which is
supposed to be included exactly once. I want to know which two
translation units included it, and for that it helps to have the name of
the translation unit - the initial *.c/cpp file - encoded in the object
file name.

> Do you actually use a tool that obfuscates the o file nimes like that?

Encoding the command-line that generates a file (as a cryptographic
hash) into the file name is a super-easy way to implement
rebuild-on-rule-change. I use that for a number of temporary files.

I do not use that for actual object files for the reasons given, but it
would technically make sense.

> I don't think you've actually mentioned a single one, so far.  None of
> the things you mentioned had anything to do with _where_ the object
> files are.

There are no hard technical reasons. It's all about usability, and
that's about the things you actually do. If you got a GUI that takes you
to the assembler code of a function with a right-click in the editor,
you don't need 'objdump'. I don't have such a GUI and don't want it most
of the time.


   Stefan

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Thread

Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-02 12:46 +0100
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-02 15:22 +0000
    Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-02 17:34 +0100
      Re: Makefile or IDE? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-12-03 13:15 +0200
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-12-02 09:48 -0700
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-02 17:34 +0100
    Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-03 11:49 +0100
      Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-03 18:27 +0100
    Re: Makefile or IDE? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2021-12-04 14:37 -0500
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-12-03 20:51 +0000
    Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-03 21:28 +0000
      Re: Makefile or IDE? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2021-12-04 14:53 -0500
        Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-04 22:17 +0100
          Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-05 11:02 +0100
            Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-05 13:16 +0100
        Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-06 13:52 +0000
          Re: Makefile or IDE? chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2021-12-17 17:19 +0000
  Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-03 23:48 +0100
    Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-04 10:31 +0100
      Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-04 16:23 +0100
        Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-04 17:41 +0100
          Re: Makefile or IDE? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-12-04 18:49 +0200
            Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-04 18:23 +0100
              Re: Makefile or IDE? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-12-04 21:25 +0200
                Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-04 22:20 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-06 13:51 +0000
                Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-06 16:33 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-06 16:02 +0000
          Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-09 11:54 +0100
            Re: Makefile or IDE? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2021-12-10 18:35 +0100
              Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-10 19:44 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-11 16:18 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-11 17:06 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-11 16:57 +0000
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2021-12-11 18:53 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-12 14:15 +0100
              Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-11 10:01 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2021-12-11 18:47 +0100
                Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-12 11:27 +0100
        Re: Makefile or IDE? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2021-12-05 11:11 +0100
          Re: Makefile or IDE? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-05 13:21 +0100
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2021-12-06 15:45 -0500
  Re: Makefile or IDE? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-12-09 10:43 +0100
  Re: Makefile or IDE? Johann Klammer <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> - 2021-12-10 09:30 +0100
  Re: Makefile or IDE? chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2021-12-17 17:27 +0000
    Re: Makefile or IDE? StateMachineCOM <statemachineguru@gmail.com> - 2021-12-20 17:18 -0800
      Re: Makefile or IDE? chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2021-12-21 16:45 +0000
      Re: Makefile or IDE? Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2021-12-21 17:40 +0000
        Re: Makefile or IDE? StateMachineCOM <statemachineguru@gmail.com> - 2021-12-21 10:55 -0800

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