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So we got it right, never was going to survive

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  So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 09:35 +1000
    Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 14:53 +1000
      Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-04-30 15:27 +1000
        Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 16:00 +1000
          Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-04-30 22:24 +1000
            Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-01 04:32 +1000
            Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive jonz <not-here@over-there.org> - 2024-05-07 14:52 +1000
              Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-05-07 20:17 +1000
      Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 16:01 +1000
        Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 16:42 +1000
          Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2024-05-03 19:49 +1000
            Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 03:23 +1000
              Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-05-04 09:19 +1000
                Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 12:46 +1000
                  Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-05-04 14:28 +1000
                    Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 15:41 +1000
          Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 07:37 +1000
    Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2024-05-11 11:23 +1000
      Re: So we got it right, never was going to survive "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 05:48 +1000

#27407 — So we got it right, never was going to survive

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

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#27408

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

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#27409

On 30/4/2024 2:53 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

Not surprised that they failed, its a tough market to get into.
I suspect that they tried to get too big too quick without testing the 
market first.

-- 
Daryl

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#27410

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

> Not surprised that they failed,

Me neither.

> its a tough market to get into.

And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to Melburg.

> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing the  
> market first.

That wouldnt have worked either.

It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

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#27413

On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
> 
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
> 
>> Not surprised that they failed,
> 
> Me neither.
> 
>> its a tough market to get into.
> 
> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to Melburg.

One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north side 
of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from Melb to 
the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the distance 
from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half hour drive 
over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while flying Bonza.
For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been significantly 
cheaper and they just weren't.
> 
>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing the 
>> market first.
> 
> That wouldnt have worked either.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris return 
on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than the either 
Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the 
price and service.

-- 
Daryl

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#27414

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>> Not surprised that they failed,

>>  Me neither.

>>> its a tough market to get into.

>>  And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to  
>> Melburg.

> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north side  
> of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from Melb to  
> the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the distance  
> from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half hour drive  
> over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while flying Bonza.

> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been significantly  
> cheaper and they just weren't.

Yeah, but its the other way for those 'living' in the sunshine coast.

But that was never going to come even close to filling a 737.

The entire buisiness model was completey hare brained.

>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big too
>>> quick without testing the  market first.

>>  That wouldnt have worked either.

>>  It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

> At least they fly between major airports,

And lots of regional airports too.

> I can fly Melb to Bris return  on Rex, I haven't yetas  their prices  
> aren't any cheaper than the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've  
> checked.

And they aren't much more reliable either, they have
been having significant problems with a lack of crew.

> I know some people that have flown Rex andthey were happy with the   
> price and service.

Yeah, haven't seen any complaints about the service.

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#27422

On 30/04/2024 10:24 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236 
>>>>>
>>
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224 
>>>>
>>
>>> Not surprised that they failed,
>>
>> Me neither.
>>
>>> its a tough market to get into.
>>
>> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to 
>> Melburg.
>
> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north 
> side of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from 
> Melb to the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the 
> distance from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half 
> hour drive over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while 
> flying Bonza.
> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been 
> significantly cheaper and they just weren't.
>>
>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing 
>>> the market first.
>>
>> That wouldnt have worked either.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.
>
> At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris 
> return on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than 
> the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
> I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the 
> price and service.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Rex?, Moruya to Sydney $339 return!. For a (usually) under one hr 
flight. By comparison, My last trip to NZ (pre covid) was $330 return. 
ATM, $487 return (Air NZ Not the cheapest) Rex are price gougers!.


-- 
If you`re the smartest person in the room, you`re in the wrong room!.

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#27423

On 7/5/2024 2:52 pm, jonz wrote:
> On 30/04/2024 10:24 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>>>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>>>
>>>> Not surprised that they failed,
>>>
>>> Me neither.
>>>
>>>> its a tough market to get into.
>>>
>>> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to 
>>> Melburg.
>>
>> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north 
>> side of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from 
>> Melb to the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the 
>> distance from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half 
>> hour drive over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while 
>> flying Bonza.
>> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been 
>> significantly cheaper and they just weren't.
>>>
>>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing 
>>>> the market first.
>>>
>>> That wouldnt have worked either.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.
>>
>> At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris 
>> return on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than 
>> the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
>> I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the 
>> price and service.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>   Rex?, Moruya to Sydney $339 return!. For a (usually) under one hr 
> flight. By comparison, My last trip to NZ (pre covid) was $330 return. 
> ATM, $487 return (Air NZ Not the cheapest) Rex are price gougers!.
> 
> 
The price of flights seems to be related to how popular the route is and 
how frequent they fly, does anyone else fly that same route and if so 
have you compared their prices?
Longer haul routes using bigger planes have a lower cost per km traveled 
so the fares are usually lower.
I regularly check Melb-Bris return flights because we often travel that 
route to visit friends and Rex are often the cheapest.

-- 
Daryl

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#27411

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

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#27412

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

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#27415

On 30/04/2024 4:42 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> 
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
> 
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
> 
>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first 
problem.

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#27416

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first  
> problem.

The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.

That was never going to be viable.

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#27418

On 4/5/2024 3:23 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> 
>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
> 
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
> 
>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
> 
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860
> 
>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first 
>> problem.
> 
> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
> 
> That was never going to be viable.

I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those 
aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply 
because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.
The Bonza boss is also saying that he needed at least 10 aircraft to be 
viable but they would only let him have 4 so as you say it was doomed 
from the start.
Even with the right size and number or aircraft it was still going to 
struggle but at least it would of had a small chance of success.
-- 
Daryl

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#27419

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the first   
>>> problem.

>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
>>  That was never going to be viable.

> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those  
> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply  
> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.

No ABC news article ever said that.

> The Bonza boss is also saying that heneeded at least 10 aircraft to be   
> viable

Yes, he did say that but that is even sillier
given that he couldnt even manage to fill 4.

> but they would only let him have 4

That's wrong too. And if that was true, it was because
they clearly were not producing anything like the cash
flow to pay the lease costs on that many planes.

> so as you say it was doomed  the start.

> Even with the right size and number or aircraft it was still goingto   
> but at least it would of had a small chance of success.

Not with just the one state capital being flown to.

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#27420

On 4/5/2024 12:46 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> 
>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
> 
>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
> 
>>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
> 
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860
> 
>>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the 
>>>> first  problem.
> 
>>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
>>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
>>>  That was never going to be viable.
> 
>> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those 
>> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply 
>> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.
> 
> No ABC news article ever said that.

They didn't use the word "forced" but their backers already had a fleet 
of 737's they needed to put to work so a better word would be that Bonza 
was obligated to use those aircraft.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624
"The large Boeing 737s are arguably the wrong fit for Bonza, flying 
second and third-tier routes, and appear to have been used as a means to 
soak up the US backer's fleet and provide it with income".


-- 
Daryl

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#27421

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

>>>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the  
>>>>> first  problem.

>>>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>>>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like  
>>>> that
>>>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.

>>>>  That was never going to be viable.

>>> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those  
>>> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply  
>>> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.

>>  No ABC news article ever said that.

> They didn't use the word "forced" but their backers already had a fleet  
> of 737's they needed to put to work so a better word would be that Bonza  
> was obligated to use those aircraft.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624
> "The large Boeing 737s are arguably the wrong fit for Bonza, flying  
> second and third-tier routes, and appear to have been used as ameans to   
> soak up the US backer's fleet and provide it with income".

That is just plain wrong. 777 Partners already had lots of 737 MAX 8s  
leased
to Flare in Canada and that is where the 4 that Bonza got came from.

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#27417

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624

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#27424

On 30/04/2024 9:35 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

There's a long thread about it here, and some of the respondents 
actually know something about the subject.

pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/658931-rip-bonza.html

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#27425

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

> There's a long thread about it here, and some of the respondents  
> actually know something about the subject.

> pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/658931-rip-bonza.html

The reality is that the business model was never going
to fly. It was never going to be possible to fill planes that
big in the routes they chose to fly to be profitable. That
meant that there was never the cash flow to pay for the
lease costs of the aircraft and so the lessors pulled the plug.

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