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Receipts - But a new slant

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  Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 10:34 -0400
    Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-28 17:36 +0200
    Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-28 17:03 +0000
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-29 06:04 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-29 20:26 +0100
    Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-29 06:27 +0100
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 17:33 -0700
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-02 10:38 +1000
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-02 05:37 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-02 19:33 +0100
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-02 05:36 +0200
    Re: Receipts - But a new slant Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-29 02:33 -0300
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-06-29 16:51 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-30 01:59 -0300
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-06-30 07:25 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-30 10:32 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 19:40 -0700
    Re: Receipts - But a new slant "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:53 +0200
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 12:26 -0400
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-29 20:30 +0100
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-29 21:54 +0200
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-29 20:38 +0000
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-30 10:12 +1000
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 23:00 -0400
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-06-30 09:26 +0100
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 19:40 -0700
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 20:26 -0700
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-30 02:12 -0300
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-30 08:34 +0200
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-30 10:36 +0200
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 19:40 -0700
      Re: Receipts - But a new slant athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-29 16:59 +0000
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-29 19:17 +0000
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-30 07:03 +0100
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-30 07:46 +0000
        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 16:36 -0400
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-30 07:03 +0100
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-30 08:44 +0200
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-30 09:13 +0000
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-30 10:16 +0100
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-30 09:36 +0000
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-30 11:44 +0200
                    Re: Receipts - But a new slant Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-30 11:13 +0100
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-30 14:46 +0200
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-30 11:43 +0200
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-06-30 11:07 -0400
                    Re: Receipts - But a new slant richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-06-30 16:34 +0000
                      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-06-30 13:59 -0400
                      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-01 09:01 +1200
                        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 18:20 -0400
                        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-01 08:51 +0200
                          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-01 22:09 +1200
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-30 16:50 +1000
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-30 08:17 +0100
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-30 17:55 +1000
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-30 14:43 +0100
                    Re: Receipts - But a new slant occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-03 08:13 +0200
                      Re: Receipts - But a new slant Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:30 +0100
                        Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-05 17:15 +1000
                          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-05 10:36 +0200
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-30 09:30 +0200
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-06-30 08:41 -0400
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-30 14:48 +0200
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-06-30 14:11 -0400
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-30 20:17 +0100
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-06-30 09:26 +0100
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-30 11:52 +0000
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-04 09:38 +0000
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 21:13 -0400
                    Re: Receipts - But a new slant nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-05 09:22 +0200
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 13:53 -0400
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-02 18:35 -0300
              Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-03 10:21 +1000
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-03 02:05 -0300
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-03 12:08 +0200
                Re: Receipts - But a new slant Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-03 10:13 -0400
                  Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-05 17:25 +1000
          Re: Receipts - But a new slant Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-30 20:07 +0100
            Re: Receipts - But a new slant Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-01 10:16 +1000

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#1145927

In article <t3echmxih3.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>,
Adam Funk  <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you 
>> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
>>
>> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a 
>> normal lid.

>Something like these?
>
><https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg>

Probably this:

https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-consumers-of-all-ages

The general idea is obvious; presumably the difficult part is the
industrial sealing process.

-- Richard

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#1145929

Den 30.06.2026 kl. 11.36 skrev Richard Tobin:

>>> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you
>>> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
>>>
>>> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a
>>> normal lid.
> 
>> Something like these?
>>
>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg>
> 
> Probably this:
> 
> https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-consumers-of-all-ages

Exactly. That picture is better that what I could find.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1145930

On 2026-06-30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> Den 30.06.2026 kl. 11.36 skrev Richard Tobin:
>
>>>> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you
>>>> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
>>>>
>>>> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a
>>>> normal lid.
>> 
>>> Something like these?
>>>
>>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg>
>> 
>> Probably this:
>> 
>> https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-consumers-of-all-ages

Thanks.


> Exactly. That picture is better that what I could find.

Looks like a good idea.


-- 
Telekinetic, dynamite
Psychic warfare is real
You better believe me brother
X-ray vision

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#1145933

Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> In article <t3echmxih3.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>,
> Adam Funk  <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you
> >> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
> >>
> >> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a
> >> normal lid.
> 
> >Something like these?
> >
> ><https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Maso
n_jar_array.jpg>
> 
> Probably this:
> 
> https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-c
onsumers-of-all-ages

They are 'twice as easy to open' !

Jan

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#1145928

Den 30.06.2026 kl. 11.16 skrev Adam Funk:

>> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you
>> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
>>
>> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a
>> normal lid.
> 
> 
> Something like these?
> 
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg>

No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large 
enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is 
wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose 
enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.


-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1145936

Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> writes:

> Den 30.06.2026 kl. 11.16 skrev Adam Funk:
>
>>> Jars in Denmark often come with a loose 'ring' around the lid. When you
>>> turn the ring - which is easy - the lid is loosened and easy to remove.
>>>
>>> I tried to find a picture, but they just look like the jars have a
>>> normal lid.
>> Something like these?
>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg#/media/File:Mason_jar_array.jpg>
>
> No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large
> enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is
> wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose
> enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.

It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?

-- 
 

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#1145937

In article <87bjcsjccr.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>,
Radey Shouman  <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>> No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large
>> enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is
>> wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose
>> enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.

>It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?

No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.

I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
started turning that it engages with the flat lid.

-- Richard

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#1145939

richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) writes:

> In article <87bjcsjccr.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>,
> Radey Shouman  <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large
>>> enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is
>>> wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose
>>> enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.
>
>>It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?
>
> No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
> against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.
>
> I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
> simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
> the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
> started turning that it engages with the flat lid.

I think I see.  Thanks.

-- 
 

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#1145943

On 1/07/2026 4:34 a.m., Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <87bjcsjccr.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>,
> Radey Shouman  <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large
>>> enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is
>>> wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose
>>> enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.
> 
>> It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?
> 
> No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
> against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.
> 
> I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
> simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
> the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
> started turning that it engages with the flat lid.
> 
> -- Richard
> 

Is this just the Mason jar, patented by John Landis Mason of New Jersey 
in 1858?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_jar

Or is there a modern improvement? I've known these since my mother "put 
up" fruit in them in the 1950s. But, to my recollection, unscrewing the 
ring did not, of itself, lift the lid off.

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#1145944

On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

>On 1/07/2026 4:34 a.m., Richard Tobin wrote:
>> In article <87bjcsjccr.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>,
>> Radey Shouman  <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> No. Imagine making a circle out of a metal band 5 mm wide just large
>>>> enough to be pulled over the lid of a jar so it looks as if the lid is
>>>> wider than normal. That's close to what it is, but the ring is loose
>>>> enough to turn easily, and somehow, when you do, the lid is popped.
>> 
>>> It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?
>> 
>> No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
>> against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.
>> 
>> I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
>> simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
>> the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
>> started turning that it engages with the flat lid.
>> 
>> -- Richard
>> 
>
>Is this just the Mason jar, patented by John Landis Mason of New Jersey 
>in 1858?
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_jar
>
>Or is there a modern improvement? I've known these since my mother "put 
>up" fruit in them in the 1950s. But, to my recollection, unscrewing the 
>ring did not, of itself, lift the lid off.

The "Mason jar", in the US, is now called a "Ball jar" or a "Ball
Mason jar".  

We have several.  The lid is two separate pieces.  The "cap" is a disk
with a rubber sealing ring, and it fits in the "ring" lid that screws
onto the bottle.  It provides a good seal.  Removing the ring didn't
remove the cap, but the cap comes off easily with a fingernail pull.
  

When my grandmother canned jellies and jams, she'd pour them into a
Mason jar and the pour a layer of melted paraffin over the contents
and then put the two-piece lid in place.   It would provide a seal
that made the contents storable for years.

We were opening and using jellies and jams my grandmother canned years
after her death.  

Ball Manufacturing made the Ball Mason jars for several years, but no
longer does.  Various companies make them undeer licensing agreements
with Newell Brands which is owned by Ball Manufacturing.

The Ball brothers were the financial founders of Ball State University
in Muncie, Indiana. 

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#1145955

Den 30.06.2026 kl. 23.01 skrev Ross Clark:

>>> It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the case?
>>
>> No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
>> against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.
>>
>> I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
>> simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
>> the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
>> started turning that it engages with the flat lid.
>>
>> -- Richard
>>
> 
> Is this just the Mason jar, patented by John Landis Mason of New Jersey 
> in 1858?

No, those are not the jars I'm talking about. Richard Tobin gave this 
link to a picture:


https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-consumers-of-all-ages

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1145959

On 1/07/2026 6:51 p.m., Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 30.06.2026 kl. 23.01 skrev Ross Clark:
> 
>>>> It looks as though there is no way to re-seal the jar, is that the 
>>>> case?
>>>
>>> No, they re-seal just like any screw lid.  That is, the lid is tight
>>> against the jar, but the vacuum that was there originally has gone.
>>>
>>> I think the main point is that to open a new jar you don't have to
>>> simultaneously overcome the static friction of the screw thread and
>>> the suction of the vacuum.  It's only after you have successfully
>>> started turning that it engages with the flat lid.
>>>
>>> -- Richard
>>>
>>
>> Is this just the Mason jar, patented by John Landis Mason of New 
>> Jersey in 1858?
> 
> No, those are not the jars I'm talking about. Richard Tobin gave this 
> link to a picture:
> 
> 
> https://www.packagingstrategies.com/articles/93294-easy-open-orbit-cap-helps-consumers-of-all-ages 
> 

Yes; I couldn't open that picture before, and the previous picture was 
of Mason jars (actually so captioned). I've now looked at the diagram of 
the Orbit mechanism, and the one essential addition appears to be a link 
connecting the screw top to the sealed lid, so that without letting go 
of the screw top you can pull the lid off. I guess that's a welcome 
improvement for some people, but, as Tony pointed out, the vaccum seal 
on a Mason jar was not necessarily strong, and the lid might readily be 
removed using a fingernail. (I remember using a beer can opener, but 
gently, so as to avoid bending or puncturing the lid.)

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#1145916

On 30/06/26 16:03, Hibou wrote:
> Le 29/06/2026 à 21:36, Tony Cooper a écrit :
>>
>> One trip to the UK, we stopped to watch a cricket match.  There was
>> a young lad - maybe 9 to 12 years-old - sitting on the grass a bit
>> away from the pitch.  He seemed friendly, so I explained that we
>> were Americans, knew nothing about cricket, and asked if he could
>> give me a general rundown of what was transpiring.
>>
>> He shot me a look of pure disdain at my ignorance, but did give me
>> a general description of how the game is played.  I nodded
>> apprecievely, but asked for some clarification of some of his
>> statements.
>>
>> Finally, evidently deciding I was hopelessly incapable of
>> understanding simple concepts - and quite possibly mentally
>> deficient - he stood, dusted himself off and went away.  I spotted
>> him later sitting on the grass on the far side of the pitch.
>
> I wonder if this is related: I seem to observe that it's impossible
> to explain simple mechanical ideas to some people (or other ideas for
> that matter). Perhaps they've just never thought about mechanics, and
> so it's just so much Greek to them.

A difficult part of teaching, I found, is dealing with the situation
where something is so obvious to you that it's hard to understand that
it's not obvious to others. You have to think back to a time when it
wasn't obvious to you, and try to get a feel about where the
difficulties are. What you have to do -- and this is not easy -- is
figure out why the subject or topic is difficult. From there you have to
get a starting point for an explanation. If you make it too simple,
you'll lose your audience. Make it a bit less simple and you'll mystify
them.

> For example: if the cap on a jar is tight, it may not be possible to
>  undo it with bare hands, but it may be possible with a cloth (I mean
> in the case where there is enough friction for a proper grip with
> either). Now the cloth can't make you any stronger, but what it can
> do is pad the lid and defer the onset of pain - and the limit does
> seem to be pain, not strength (this is why lepers with no feeling in
> their hands lose their digits). Simples, I think!
>
> (Some jars we buy are beyond even this. I used to use an old chain
> wrench on them, but this was oily and risky. I now have a strap
> wrench for the purpose, though even then it's sometimes touch and go.
> The commercial grippers one can buy don't look nearly as sturdy as
> the wrench).

One way I tackle that problem is to hit the edge of the lid with the
back of a knife. With luck, you'll cause just enough distortion to let
the vacuum out.

> As with lids, so with cricket?

Cricket is more complicated than lids.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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#1145917

Le 30/06/2026 à 07:50, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 30/06/26 16:03, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> (Some jars we buy are beyond even this. I used to use an old chain
>> wrench on them, but this was oily and risky. I now have a strap
>> wrench for the purpose, though even then it's sometimes touch and go.
>> The commercial grippers one can buy don't look nearly as sturdy as
>> the wrench).
> 
> One way I tackle that problem is to hit the edge of the lid with the
> back of a knife. With luck, you'll cause just enough distortion to let
> the vacuum out.


I'm impressed with the thinking that's gone into this sort of jar:

<https://www.ferme-uhartia.com/media/cache/sylius_shop_product_large_thumbnail/b1/50/b5aaa22cda5572cdb73d0d9ffb39.jpeg>

One pulls the tab on the rubber ring and that lets air in, whereupon it 
becomes possible to lift the lid.

(I'm still wrestling with the morality of foie gras, of gavage. Do the 
ducks and geese suffer? Can only the conscious suffer, and are they 
conscious? What is consciousness anyway?…)

>> As with lids, so with cricket?
> 
> Cricket is more complicated than lids.


True. (I'm already walking back to the pavilion.)

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#1145920

On 30/06/26 17:17, Hibou wrote:
>
> (I'm still wrestling with the morality of foie gras, of gavage. Do the
> ducks and geese suffer? Can only the conscious suffer, and are they
> conscious? What is consciousness anyway?…)

ObSF: Pate de foie gras, a short story by Isaac Asimov.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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#1145935

Le 30/06/2026 à 08:55, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 30/06/26 17:17, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> (I'm still wrestling with the morality of foie gras, of gavage. Do the
>> ducks and geese suffer? Can only the conscious suffer, and are they
>> conscious? What is consciousness anyway?…)
> 
> ObSF: Pate de foie gras, a short story by Isaac Asimov.


Thanks! Found it. Read it.

p.98 here:
<https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/EB/A/Asimov%20-%20Mysteries.pdf>

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#1146090

On 30/06/2026 15:43, Hibou wrote:
> Le 30/06/2026 à 08:55, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>> On 30/06/26 17:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> (I'm still wrestling with the morality of foie gras, of gavage. Do the
>>> ducks and geese suffer? Can only the conscious suffer, and are they
>>> conscious? What is consciousness anyway?…)
>>
>> ObSF: Pate de foie gras, a short story by Isaac Asimov.
> 
> 
> Thanks! Found it. Read it.
> 
> p.98 here:
> <https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/EB/A/Asimov%20-
> %20Mysteries.pdf>
> 

[ASIDE]

Quote: (p.100)

"That's The Goose," he said.  The way he said it I could here the capitals.

End quote

'hearing the capitals' is an issue that crops up here in AUE from time
to time.  I'm pleased Asimov noticed it too.

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#1146124

Le 03/07/2026 à 07:13, occam a écrit :
> 
> [ASIDE]
> 
> Quote: (p.100)
> 
> "That's The Goose," he said.  The way he said it I could here the capitals.
> 
> End quote
> 
> 'hearing the capitals' is an issue that crops up here in AUE from time
> to time.  I'm pleased Asimov noticed it too.


The most capitalised writing I can remember seeing is E.M. Delafield's 
(in 'The Provincial Lady in Wartime' etc. - "There is, in Cook’s 
opinion, Something Wrong with the Range").

But then, I don't read German.

I'm thinking there may be quite a few capitals in old writers, Defoe, 
Swift, et al.. I can't remember; it's a while since I've looked at them.

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#1146233

On 03/07/26 20:30, Hibou wrote:
> Le 03/07/2026 à 07:13, occam a écrit :
>>
>> [ASIDE]
>>
>> Quote: (p.100)
>>
>> "That's The Goose," he said.  The way he said it I could here the
>> capitals.
>>
>> End quote
>>
>> 'hearing the capitals' is an issue that crops up here in AUE from
>> time to time.  I'm pleased Asimov noticed it too.
>
> The most capitalised writing I can remember seeing is E.M.
> Delafield's (in 'The Provincial Lady in Wartime' etc. - "There is, in
> Cook’s opinion, Something Wrong with the Range").
>
> But then, I don't read German.
>
> I'm thinking there may be quite a few capitals in old writers, Defoe,
>  Swift, et al.. I can't remember; it's a while since I've looked at
> them.

In German the rule is simple. Nouns get Capitals.

In 19th-century English writing it was more complicated. The Important
Words got capitals.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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#1146244

Den 05.07.2026 kl. 09.15 skrev Peter Moylan:

> In German the rule is simple. Nouns get Capitals.
> 
> In 19th-century English writing it was more complicated. The Important
> Words got capitals.

It's not entirely simple. Adjectives used as nouns should be capitalised 
too, but it's not always possible to be sure when. Even Germans make 
mistakes in this.

But as a foreigner you don't need to worry about that, so sticking to 
the rule you quote is fine. Besides when listening to speech no one can 
hear the capital letters - something that I sometimes point out to the 
participants in de.etc.sprache.deutsch. But they are adamant in this 
respect.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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