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Groups > alt.usage.english > #575082 > unrolled thread

Mouse-trap lift

Started byJohn Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk>
First post2015-12-15 15:31 +0000
Last post2015-12-16 08:06 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 92 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Mouse-trap lift John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-12-15 15:31 +0000
    Re: Mouse-trap lift Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-15 11:02 -0500
      Re: Mouse-trap lift Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-15 11:40 -0500
      Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-20 00:58 +0000
    Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-15 13:32 -0800
      Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 08:38 +0000
        Re: Mouse-trap lift Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-12-20 13:25 +0000
          Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 13:38 +0000
            Re: Mouse-trap lift Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-12-20 14:44 +0000
              Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 16:06 +0000
                Re: Mouse-trap lift Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-12-20 18:29 +0000
            Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-20 22:17 +0000
              Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-20 23:37 +0000
                Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-21 21:47 +0000
                  Re: Mouse-trap lift richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2015-12-21 23:08 +0000
                    Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-21 23:22 +0000
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 15:57 -0800
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 20:09 -0500
                        Re: Mouse-trap lift msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-21 22:32 -0600
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-22 16:40 +1100
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 08:03 -0500
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-23 02:26 +0000
                            Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 23:26 -0500
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-25 18:59 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 01:20 -0800
                            Re: Mouse-trap lift spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com - 2015-12-23 14:55 -0800
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-24 08:00 +0000
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-25 18:36 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-12-25 23:22 +0000
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-26 10:40 +0000
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-22 20:53 -0800
                            Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-23 07:47 +0000
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-23 12:54 +0000
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-12-23 10:46 -0800
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-24 08:40 -0800
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-25 11:52 +1100
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-12-24 23:34 -0800
                                    Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-25 07:41 -0800
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-26 22:40 +0000
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-28 20:46 +1100
                                    Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-29 19:07 -0800
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Will Parsons <varro@nodomain.invalid> - 2015-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                        Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-30 10:41 -0800
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-30 16:38 +1100
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-12-30 16:30 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-27 13:08 +0000
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-27 07:06 -0800
                        Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-21 20:52 -0800
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-21 20:47 -0800
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-12-22 07:24 +0200
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-22 10:53 +0000
                        Re: Mouse-trap lift charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-22 11:08 +0000
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-22 12:31 +0000
                          Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-23 02:31 +0000
                            Re: Mouse-trap lift spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com - 2015-12-23 14:47 -0800
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com> - 2015-12-23 23:08 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-12-23 15:29 -0800
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 18:38 -0500
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-23 20:14 -0800
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com - 2015-12-25 15:25 -0800
                              Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-25 19:03 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> - 2015-12-25 19:27 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-25 14:34 -0500
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-25 11:43 -0800
                                    Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-25 19:30 -0500
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 19:39 -0800
                                        Re: Mouse-trap lift Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 01:32 -0800
                                          Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 21:49 +0000
                                            Re: Mouse-trap lift "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-29 12:24 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com - 2015-12-25 15:23 -0800
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Janet <nobody@home.org> - 2015-12-26 01:07 +0000
                                    Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-25 20:38 -0500
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-26 22:57 +0000
                                        Re: Mouse-trap lift Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 18:11 -0500
                                    Re: Mouse-trap lift GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-27 11:02 +0000
                                      Re: Mouse-trap lift bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-12-27 11:55 -0800
                                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-12-26 04:28 +0000
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-25 19:34 -0700
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2015-12-26 09:49 -0800
                                Re: Mouse-trap lift Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2015-12-27 12:34 +0100
                  Re: Mouse-trap lift Katy Jennison <katy@spamtrap.kjennison.com> - 2015-12-21 23:55 +0000
                    Re: Mouse-trap lift John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-12-22 09:25 +0000
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-12-22 11:47 +0200
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-22 03:00 -0700
                      Re: Mouse-trap lift Katy Jennison <katy@spamtrap.kjennison.com> - 2015-12-22 12:13 +0000
          Re: Mouse-trap lift Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2015-12-20 13:23 -0500
            Re: Mouse-trap lift Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-12-20 18:48 +0000
          Re: Mouse-trap lift Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-21 09:01 +1100
            Re: Mouse-trap lift Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-12-20 23:06 +0000
        Re: Mouse-trap lift "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-12-20 22:12 +0000
          Re: Mouse-trap lift msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-21 02:32 -0600
    Re: Mouse-trap lift Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-12-16 08:06 +0200

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#576337

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-22 08:03 -0500
Message-ID<7lhi7bh6cke9b8r1110m8l1kif92punib5@4ax.com>
In reply to#576263
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 22:32:19 -0600, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Laura Spira:
>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or 
>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in 
>>> the US.
>
>To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
>in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
>In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
>problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
>"concierge" desk for that for of thing.
>
>A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
>It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
>Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
>
>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression 
>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their 
>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
>
>I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
>like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
>actual theater (auditorium) from.
> 
>Tony Cooper:
>> Just the opposite in the US.  There is a foyer in my house - just
>> inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
>> miles away.  Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.   
>
>For me, houses don't have foyers either.  If there's a small room
>just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
>"vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
>Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

A foyer, in my view, is not an enclosed room.  It's an area.  It may
be bounded by walls, but there need not be doors in the walls.  In our
house, to the left of the foyer is an arched opening to the dining
room, to the right is an opening to the living room, and straight
ahead is a hall to other rooms.  

A person just entering the house through the front door is in the
foyer, but not in any room in the house.

A vestibule, in my view, is enclosed.  Like the foyer, it is a area,
but unlike the foyer there is a door to go through to get to other
rooms.   

A vestibule is a northern thing because it's a weather barrier.  The
person entering doesn't expose the house to the outside weather.

There is, of course, the outside vestibule on a train.  Different
thing.
>
>> Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?  
>
>Neither of those for me -- it's "foy-yea".
> 
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#576521

From"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-23 02:26 +0000
Message-ID<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-fYscx3udd51y@localhost>
In reply to#576263
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 04:32:19 UTC, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Laura Spira:
> >> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or 
> >> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in 
> >> the US.
> 
> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.

	Agree
 
> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.

In a grand hotel the lobby may comprise a large area with subsidiary
hallways running off of it, and perhaps some areas with bar or even 
restaurant service. The "atrium" of the typical Hyatt Regency hotel 
would be a lobby if the ceiling were brought down to about 20 or 30 
feet high.
 
> >> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression 
> >> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their 
> >> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
> 
> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> actual theater (auditorium) from.

You are talking about the area with the concession stand, are you 
not? That is still a lobby to me.

> Tony Cooper:
> > Just the opposite in the US.  There is a foyer in my house - just
> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
> > miles away.  Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.   
> 
> For me, houses don't have foyers either.

I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more 
impressive than an entry.
  

> If there's a small room
> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
waiting to be admitted to the house proper.

We have enclosed a small area, about three feet deep by six feet 
wide, in front of our original entry door. This is a small 
vestibule. After passing through the inner door one enters what 
might be called a foyer (though I don't call it that; I call it the 
entry), about seven feet deep by the same six feet wide. From it to 
the left, closed off by a pocket door (q.v.), is the kitchen. In 
front is a wide opening into the living room, and to the right is a 
hall leading to the bedroom area. The vestibule is where I put some 
annual plants during the winter because, though it's not heated out 
there, it doesn't freeze either. 
 
> > Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?  
> 
> Neither of those for me -- it's "foy-yea".

I try to avoid having to say the word.

-- 
John Varela

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#576539

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-22 23:26 -0500
Message-ID<pj7k7bh02e6k9i60vu3omlibnr0et5s0o1@4ax.com>
In reply to#576521
On 23 Dec 2015 02:26:44 GMT, "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
wrote:

>> Tony Cooper:
>> > Just the opposite in the US.  There is a foyer in my house - just
>> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
>> > miles away.  Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.   
>> 
>> For me, houses don't have foyers either.
>
>I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
>usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more 
>impressive than an entry.

We blame real estate agents for a lot of things that they don't
originate.  The word "foyer" for the area that is the entranceway to a
house has been used a lot longer than real estate agents have been
wearing gold sportcoats.  It comes to us from the French word for
"hearth, home" and before that from the Latin "focarius". 

On an architect's floorplan, that area has to have some sort of label.
Some floorplans label it a foyer, some use "entry", and some other
terms.  If anything, real estate agents have picked it up from
architects.

Personally, I thing "entry hall" is much more the high-faluting
designation.  I have that area in my house, and it's not at all as
grand as a hall.  A hallway leads off it, but there's no standing suit
of armor or ancestor portraits in the hall.  One wall has an ink and
watercolor painting of the house in which my wife was born and three
framed sets of old postcards from our hometowns.  The other wall has a
framed set of my photographs.  You can stand in the middle of that
hallway and touch both walls.  That's not a "hall".
>  
>
>> If there's a small room
>> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
>> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
>> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

The door is the entry.  It's the space it opens to that needs a term. 

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#577045

From"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-25 18:59 +0000
Message-ID<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-7oDd2MRet0I8@localhost>
In reply to#576539
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:26:05 UTC, Tony Cooper 
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Dec 2015 02:26:44 GMT, "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >> Tony Cooper:
> >> > Just the opposite in the US.  There is a foyer in my house - just
> >> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
> >> > miles away.  Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.   
> >> 
> >> For me, houses don't have foyers either.
> >
> >I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
> >usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more 
> >impressive than an entry.
> 
> We blame real estate agents for a lot of things that they don't
> originate.  The word "foyer" for the area that is the entranceway to a
> house has been used a lot longer than real estate agents have been
> wearing gold sportcoats.  It comes to us from the French word for
> "hearth, home" and before that from the Latin "focarius". 

I never doubted the word came to us from French and ultimately 
Latin. Let us note that "foyer" in BrE means what you and I would 
call a "lobby". Someone is responsible for the word's application to
a much smaller space in AmE. 
 
> On an architect's floorplan, that area has to have some sort of label.
> Some floorplans label it a foyer, some use "entry", and some other
> terms.  If anything, real estate agents have picked it up from
> architects.

You may be right about that. My house was built in 1960 but I do 
have the architectural drawings for it. The space we have been 
discussing was labeled "foyer" by the architect.

 
> Personally, I thing "entry hall" is much more the high-faluting
> designation.  I have that area in my house, and it's not at all as
> grand as a hall.

Elsethread I've given the dimensions of our entry as about six feet 
wide by nine feet deep. Because of the wide opening to the living 
room, it's almost an alcove.

Friends who live in a far newer house have a space that leads about 
fifteen or twenty feet from the front door into the living room and 
kitchen area. This space is defined on the left by a wall and on the
right by a railing, on the other side of which is the dining room. 
It crosses a transverse hall and then joins the living room. I would
call this area an entry, and neither a hall nor a foyer. 

> A hallway leads off it, but there's no standing suit
> of armor or ancestor portraits in the hall.  One wall has an ink and
> watercolor painting of the house in which my wife was born and three
> framed sets of old postcards from our hometowns.  The other wall has a
> framed set of my photographs.  You can stand in the middle of that
> hallway and touch both walls.  That's not a "hall".
> >  
> >
> >> If there's a small room
> >> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
> >> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
> >> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".
> 
> The door is the entry.  It's the space it opens to that needs a term. 

The door is the entrance. The space beyond the door is the entry.

-- 
John Varela

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#577594

FromSnidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 01:20 -0800
Message-ID<mn.e0507dfc95e35d3a.127094@snitoo>
In reply to#577045
John Varela used thar keyboard to writen:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:26:05 UTC, Tony Cooper 
> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

[much detail thrown untidily to the side]
> Elsethread I've given the dimensions of our entry as about six feet 
> wide by nine feet deep. Because of the wide opening to the living 
> room, it's almost an alcove.
>
> Friends who live in a far newer house have a space that leads about 
> fifteen or twenty feet from the front door into the living room and 
> kitchen area. This space is defined on the left by a wall and on the
> right by a railing, on the other side of which is the dining room. 
> It crosses a transverse hall and then joins the living room. I would
> call this area an entry, and neither a hall nor a foyer. 
>
[...]
>>> 
>>>> If there's a small room
>>>> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
>>>> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
>>>> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".
>> 
>> The door is the entry.  It's the space it opens to that needs a term. 
>
> The door is the entrance. The space beyond the door is the entry.

The houses I was raised in (that I can remember) had porches.  For the 
first, with an unshielded porch, the front door opened directly into 
the living room.  In the second, with a partially enclosed porch, the 
front door opened into a hallway.  My aunt's house had a larger 
partially enclosed porch, and a front door opening into a hallway that 
included a stairway.  My aunt also had a cottage still on the property, 
with an unshielded porch and a front door opening directly into the 
living room, but that door was never used.  The back porch was roofed, 
and the door led into the kitchen; opposite to the door was the "door" 
of the woodshed.

3 of the houses I've been involved with as an adult have had unshielded 
porches and front doors directly into the living room, and 2 have had 
unshielded porches and front doors leading into a hallway (without and 
with stairs, in turn).  All of those houses have been newer than the 
houses of my childhood.

2 apartments which I have tenanted have opened directly into the living 
room, but one was sheltered by the 2nd floor walkway, and one by a 
roofed stairwell between building units.

No vestibules were harmed in making this post.

/dps

-- 
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it 
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are 
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us 
ask.  (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

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#576724

Fromspuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
Date2015-12-23 14:55 -0800
Message-ID<c87151ca-3a0b-45a6-ace3-9460a88de5e7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#576521
On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela  wrote:
> I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
> that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
> in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
> air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
> waiting to be admitted to the house proper.

That's a BrE porch. 

Owain

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#576775

Fromcharles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
Date2015-12-24 08:00 +0000
Message-ID<5536e65122charles@candehope.me.uk>
In reply to#576724
In article <c87151ca-3a0b-45a6-ace3-9460a88de5e7@googlegroups.com>,
   <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela  wrote:
> > I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
> > that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
> > in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
> > air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
> > waiting to be admitted to the house proper.

> That's a BrE porch. 

A porch is generally a protrusion at the front, a vestibule is integral.

-- 
Please note new email address:
charles@CandEhope.me.uk

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#577042

From"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-25 18:36 +0000
Message-ID<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-znhYdzrDNCtU@localhost>
In reply to#576724
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:55:48 UTC, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela  wrote:
> > I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
> > that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
> > in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
> > air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
> > waiting to be admitted to the house proper.
> 
> That's a BrE porch. 
> 
> Owain
 
In AmE a porch has a roof but at least one side open to the weather.
A vestibule has a roof -- or more likely is within the exterior wall
of the house (this is the case of the one at my house) -- and is 
enclosed on four sides.

-- 
John Varela

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#577087

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-12-25 23:22 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn7rk1n.rf9.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to#577042
In message <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-znhYdzrDNCtU@localhost> 
  John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:55:48 UTC, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com wrote:

>> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela  wrote:
>> > I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
>> > that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
>> > in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
>> > air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
>> > waiting to be admitted to the house proper.
>> 
>> That's a BrE porch. 
>> 
>> Owain
>  
> In AmE a porch has a roof but at least one side open to the weather.
> A vestibule has a roof -- or more likely is within the exterior wall
> of the house (this is the case of the one at my house) -- and is 
> enclosed on four sides.

As some of use have discovered over the years here, there is no one
single meaning for "porch".


-- 
I WILL NOT TRADE PANTS WITH OTHERS Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F05

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#577150

Fromcharles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
Date2015-12-26 10:40 +0000
Message-ID<5537fc9f47charles@candehope.me.uk>
In reply to#577087
In article <slrnn7rk1n.rf9.g.kreme@amelia.local>,
   Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-znhYdzrDNCtU@localhost> 
>   John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:55:48 UTC, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com wrote:

> >> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela  wrote:
> >> > I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate 
> >> > that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door 
> >> > in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor 
> >> > air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
> >> > waiting to be admitted to the house proper.
> >> 
> >> That's a BrE porch. 
> >> 
> >> Owain
> >  
> > In AmE a porch has a roof but at least one side open to the weather.
> > A vestibule has a roof -- or more likely is within the exterior wall
> > of the house (this is the case of the one at my house) -- and is 
> > enclosed on four sides.

> As some of use have discovered over the years here, there is no one
> single meaning for "porch".

to broacasting engineers, it has another meaning altogether/

-- 
Please note new email address:
charles@CandEhope.me.uk

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#576547

FromCharles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net>
Date2015-12-22 20:53 -0800
Message-ID<ctbishop-1B12C5.20533522122015@news.individual.net>
In reply to#576263
In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Laura Spira:
> >> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or 
> >> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in 
> >> the US.
> 
> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
> 
> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
> 
> >> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression 
> >> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their 
> >> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
> 
> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> actual theater (auditorium) from.

Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and 
impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before 
you enter the theater. 

-- 
Charl3e

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#576562

FromLFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Date2015-12-23 07:47 +0000
Message-ID<ddv1rmFs8rdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#576547
On 23/12/2015 04:53, Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>> Laura Spira:
>>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
>>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
>>>> the US.
>>
>> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
>> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
>> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
>> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
>> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
>>
>> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
>> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
>> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
>>
>>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
>>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
>>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
>>
>> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
>> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
>> actual theater (auditorium) from.
>
> Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
> impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
> you enter the theater.
>

An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...

-- 
Laura (emulate St George for email)

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#576603

From"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net>
Date2015-12-23 12:54 +0000
Message-ID<1c6l7bdma0n9vs20q5d3vt2odkujqoubr2@4ax.com>
In reply to#576562
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 07:47:01 +0000, LFS
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

>On 23/12/2015 04:53, Charles Bishop wrote:
>> In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>   msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>
>>> Laura Spira:
>>>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
>>>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
>>>>> the US.
>>>
>>> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
>>> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
>>> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
>>> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
>>> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
>>>
>>> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
>>> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
>>> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
>>>
>>>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
>>>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
>>>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
>>>
>>> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
>>> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
>>> actual theater (auditorium) from.
>>
>> Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
>> impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
>> you enter the theater.
>>
>
>An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...

Ditto.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

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#576675

Frombill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca>
Date2015-12-23 10:46 -0800
Message-ID<billvan-96BFDB.10463523122015@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>
In reply to#576562
In article <ddv1rmFs8rdU1@mid.individual.net>,
 LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

> On 23/12/2015 04:53, Charles Bishop wrote:
> > In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >   msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >
> >> Laura Spira:
> >>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
> >>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
> >>>> the US.
> >>
> >> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> >> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> >> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> >> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> >> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
> >>
> >> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> >> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> >> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
> >>
> >>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
> >>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
> >>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
> >>
> >> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> >> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> >> actual theater (auditorium) from.
> >
> > Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
> > impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
> > you enter the theater.
> 
> An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...

In leftpondia movie theatres, the lobby is indeed the large space 
between the box office and the actual theatre where one finds washrooms 
and especially, the snack counter. It can be bigger than the theatre 
itself because it has to accommodate long lineups for popcorn and soft 
drinks. Those of us who went to the movies from the late 1950s through 
the next few decades were treated 15 minutes or so before the main 
feature to the immortal animated ditty, "Let's all go to the lobby".

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWFX4ylV_ko

At drive-in theatres, the tune was "Let's all go to the snack bar".

I thought the local venue for live opera might use "foyer" for the 
equivalent space, but I've just had a look at the website and it's also 
a lobby.
-- 
bill

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#576848

FromCharles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net>
Date2015-12-24 08:40 -0800
Message-ID<ctbishop-8F907D.08403624122015@news.individual.net>
In reply to#576562
In article <ddv1rmFs8rdU1@mid.individual.net>,
 LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

> On 23/12/2015 04:53, Charles Bishop wrote:
> > In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >   msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >
> >> Laura Spira:
> >>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
> >>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
> >>>> the US.
> >>
> >> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> >> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> >> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> >> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> >> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
> >>
> >> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> >> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> >> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
> >>
> >>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
> >>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
> >>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
> >>
> >> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> >> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> >> actual theater (auditorium) from.
> >
> > Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
> > impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
> > you enter the theater.
> >
> 
> An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...

Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
prices.

-- 
charfles

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#576920

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid>
Date2015-12-25 11:52 +1100
Message-ID<n5i3qs$b6l$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#576848
On 2015-Dec-25 03:40, Charles Bishop wrote:

> Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
> theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
> popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
> prices.

If it were a free market, you'd be allowed to bring in your own popcorn.

-- 
Peter Moylan                           http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

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#576938

Frombill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca>
Date2015-12-24 23:34 -0800
Message-ID<billvan-AA805A.23344924122015@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>
In reply to#576920
In article <n5i3qs$b6l$4@dont-email.me>,
 Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 2015-Dec-25 03:40, Charles Bishop wrote:
> 
> > Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
> > theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
> > popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
> > prices.
> 
> If it were a free market, you'd be allowed to bring in your own popcorn.

That is what pro-free-marketers mean by free markets: the right to ban 
competition from a given venue, so that you can charge extortionist 
prices.
-- 
bill

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#577001

FromCharles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net>
Date2015-12-25 07:41 -0800
Message-ID<ctbishop-080C59.07411125122015@news.individual.net>
In reply to#576938
In article <billvan-AA805A.23344924122015@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
 bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> wrote:

> In article <n5i3qs$b6l$4@dont-email.me>,
>  Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > On 2015-Dec-25 03:40, Charles Bishop wrote:
> > 
> > > Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
> > > theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
> > > popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
> > > prices.
> > 
> > If it were a free market, you'd be allowed to bring in your own popcorn.
> 
> That is what pro-free-marketers mean by free markets: the right to ban 
> competition from a given venue, so that you can charge extortionist 
> prices.

Yes, I knew that, and couldn't word the joke properly.

-- 
charles, still not sure what I meant

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#577332

From"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-26 22:40 +0000
Message-ID<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-7olXKheKHqlv@localhost>
In reply to#576848
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 16:40:36 UTC, Charles Bishop 
<ctbishop@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article <ddv1rmFs8rdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On 23/12/2015 04:53, Charles Bishop wrote:
> > > In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XLnZ2dnUU7-bOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > >   msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > >
> > >> Laura Spira:
> > >>>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
> > >>>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
> > >>>> the US.
> > >>
> > >> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> > >> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> > >> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> > >> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> > >> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
> > >>
> > >> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> > >> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> > >> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
> > >>
> > >>>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
> > >>>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
> > >>>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
> > >>
> > >> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> > >> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> > >> actual theater (auditorium) from.
> > >
> > > Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
> > > impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
> > > you enter the theater.
> > >
> > 
> > An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...
> 
> Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
> theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
> popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
> prices.
 
And also in incredible sizes. Last (Christmas) night I went to a 
movie for the first time in ages (the new Star Wars movie) in a 
group that included one 15-year old and two thirteen-year-old boys. 
You can't imagine the amount of food and drink they picked up. Well,
maybe you could imagine it. I couldn't have.

-- 
John Varela

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#577601

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid>
Date2015-12-28 20:46 +1100
Message-ID<n5r09g$k0b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#577332
On 2015-Dec-27 09:40, John Varela wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 16:40:36 UTC, Charles Bishop 
> <ctbishop@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the 
>> theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks, 
>> popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market) 
>> prices.
>  
> And also in incredible sizes. Last (Christmas) night I went to a 
> movie for the first time in ages (the new Star Wars movie) in a 
> group that included one 15-year old and two thirteen-year-old boys. 
> You can't imagine the amount of food and drink they picked up. Well,
> maybe you could imagine it. I couldn't have.

One thing that makes me reluctant to go to picture theatres is the stink
of popcorn. I can't stand it. I'm OK with the quantity of popcorn that
might be made in one's own home, but in industrial quantities it's
nauseating.

The movies I'm likely to want to see don't seem to attract popcorn
eaters, so that's good as far as it goes. But I still have to make my
way across the lobby.

-- 
Peter Moylan                           http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

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