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| Path | csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail |
|---|---|
| From | Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> |
| Newsgroups | alt.sys.pdp10 |
| Subject | Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) |
| Date | Wed, 02 Sep 2026 16:35:26 -0300 |
| Organization | Primarily biological and memetic |
| Lines | 71 |
| Message-ID | <87bjaf5tvl.fsf@debian> (permalink) |
| References | <874inbqdz7.fsf@mariorosell.es> <110j4qk$2q1p4$1@dont-email.me> <110l0v9$3av52$1@dont-email.me> <jwvbjdd5gx3.fsf-monnier+comp.lang.lisp@gnu.org> <110nf0q$3vra6$3@dont-email.me> <87y0gg62cx.fsf@nightsong.com> <110rfqf$142ot$1@dont-email.me> <111ne5o$vsm3$3@dont-email.me> <111pbk6$36pi7$1@dont-email.me> <87qzlqgiyx.fsf@gmail.com> <111t96n$6sqq$1@dont-email.me> <list-20260629095538@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <111tev9$8hea$1@dont-email.me> <875x2zzres.fsf@nightsong.com> <86se5zr6ez.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <87mru47iou.fsf_-_@debian> <7wecfgrtuh.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <874igb7fmv.fsf_-_@debian> <7wwlt6rhw6.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <874iga5jgr.fsf@debian> <7wld9l5xtc.fsf_-_@junk.nocrew.org> |
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| Injection-Date | Wed, 02 Sep 2026 19:37:47 +0000 (UTC) |
| Injection-Info | dont-email.me; logging-data="3260423"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18kG89gzOW7qRTUFYWC5AHq"; posting-host="de81ddf0846fce2f7070364d1569cfb9" |
| User-Agent | Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) |
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| Xref | csiph.com alt.sys.pdp10:9989 |
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Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> writes: > Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote: >> If there are other fonts out there with compatible metrics, maybe they >> could be dropped in. > > Yes. What is it you want to accomplish? Without detracting from your achievement, I think it may be possible to build on it to get a 20× smaller file that is more readable, more aesthetically appealing, easier to quote from and search for text in, and more accessible to blind users. Size ---- Contrary to popular belief, PDF is a relatively compact file format. The file format overhead is typically only around a kilobyte, and it supports Deflate for content streams and, in recent versions, even for much of the file structure information. It is also routine to subset embedded fonts to only the glyphs actually used in the file. AIM-421 is pure text, and it’s about 10 pages of about 50 lines of about 12 words of about 6 characters; (* 10 50 12 6) gives an estimate of 36000 characters, which would Deflate to about 14–18 kilobytes. But the reprint file is 1.5 megabytes, roughly an inflation factor of 100×. A smaller PDF file would either have to use Courier (the only typewriter font in the 14 core fonts of PDF, and a particularly ugly and unreadable one) or bundle a font (subset) of its own. But the ASCII subset of a typewriter font used in the document in question is unlikely to be more than another 50 kilobytes, giving a total target file size of 70K or less. Small size reduces the cost of archival preservation, making it more likely to happen. Readability and aesthetic appeal -------------------------------- Although your reprint PDF is significantly better-looking than the original print that MIT scanned, the typewriter font used is still slower to read to many current typewriter fonts, such as Inconsolata, Computer Modern Typewriter, Latin Modern Typewriter Light, DejaVu Sans Mono, Consolas, and Noto Mono. Arguably, it’s even inferior to Courier (which I am looking at as Nimbus Mono PS Regular). Although I am aware that preferences differ, it is my belief that these more-readable fonts are also more *pleasant* to read, and that this aesthetic preference is likely to be at least widely shared, if not objectively correct. I do not believe that the details of the original font represent a significant aspect of the merits of AIM-421 or the other AI memos. Quoting, searching, and blind-accessibility ------------------------------------------- It’s very common to quote a sentence or two from a paper when commenting on it, both because the reader may not have read the original paper (and may not want to) and to clarify specifically what you’re commenting on. Although current AI is probably good enough to do error-free real-time OCR on demand from PDFs like your reprint, current PDF readers do not yet do this, instead using the invisible text layer added by tools like OCRmyPDF. This is also what PDF viewers use for text search and, as I understand it, what screen readers for the blind use for synthesizing speech. It is my contention that making the text contents of the page accessible as text would make the reprints significantly more useful. Kragen
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boxing all integers (was Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-08-29 17:52 -0300
Re: boxing all integers (was Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-08-30 06:43 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-08-30 13:11 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-08-31 05:14 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-31 06:54 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-08-31 13:43 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-08-31 13:56 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-31 13:34 -0700
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-31 18:12 -0400
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-01 15:12 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-01 05:59 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-02 15:23 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-01 05:45 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-01 07:07 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-09-01 17:36 -0400
the history of the Hershey fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-02 15:55 -0300
Re: the history of the Hershey fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-02 21:31 +0000
Re: the history of the Hershey fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-03 09:59 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-02 16:35 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-02 21:50 +0000
PDF file compactness (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-03 12:06 -0300
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-03 05:42 +0000
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-03 12:50 -0300
origin of XGP fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-28 10:44 -0300
Re: origin of XGP fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-28 07:33 -0700
Re: origin of XGP fonts (was Re: reprints of old AI memos) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-28 22:53 +0800
Re: reprints of old AI memos (was Re: boxing all integers)f Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-06 08:40 +0000
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