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Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

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  Here you go, Apple lovers!  Eat this! Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> - 2018-10-31 20:24 -0500
    Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! NumbLock <789456123@0.com> - 2018-10-31 20:20 -0700
      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-01 14:40 +0000
        Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-19 08:12 +0000
      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-11-01 07:50 -0700
    Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-01 07:09 +0000
      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-01 04:02 -0400
        Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-01 09:24 -0400
          Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-01 09:30 -0400
            Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-11-02 11:46 +1300
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-01 19:06 -0400
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2018-11-02 08:42 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-02 13:02 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-11-03 14:34 +1300
          Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-01 14:43 +0000
          Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-11-01 11:46 -0400
            Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-01 21:53 -0400
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-11-02 04:23 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-02 01:45 -0400
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-02 02:16 -0400
      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> - 2018-11-01 08:45 -0500
        Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-01 15:00 +0000
          Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-11-01 11:27 -0500
            Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> - 2018-11-01 15:25 -0500
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2018-11-08 10:06 +0100
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-11-08 08:11 -0500
                  Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-11-08 08:37 -0600
                  Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-09 16:49 +0000
                    Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2018-11-09 15:25 -0600
                      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-10 00:42 -0500
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-11-09 13:56 +1300
            Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-01 22:04 -0400
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-02 06:41 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-02 04:20 -0400
                  Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-11-02 05:51 -0700
                    Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-02 19:47 +0000
                      Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2018-11-02 16:31 -0400
                        Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-02 21:14 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-02 13:06 +0000
                Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-11-02 07:19 -0500
              Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-11-02 07:15 -0500
            Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this! Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2018-11-08 15:38 +0100

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#51446 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Andy Burns explained :
> Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
>> Why a Helium Leak Disabled Every iPhone in a Medical Facility
>
> Wonder if the Helium affected the MEMS barometers in non-Apple 
> devices?
>
> Maybe accelerometers, and compasses too, but I can't see why those 
> couldn't be airtight.

  The article says that it didn't affect Android devices.

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#51453 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Nomen Nescio wrote:

> Andy Burns explained :
>
>> Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>
>>> Why a Helium Leak Disabled Every iPhone in a Medical Facility
>>
>> Wonder if the Helium affected the MEMS barometers in non-Apple devices?
>>
>> Maybe accelerometers, and compasses too, but I can't see why those 
>> couldn't be airtight.
> 
>   The article says that it didn't affect Android devices.

It would take android devices to have MEMS resonators instead of crystal 
oscillators for them to be affected in the same way, but plenty of non 
iThings have MEMS devices in one form or another.

I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere, 
whereas a barometer would need to be.

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#51457 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Andy Burns writes:
> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
> whereas a barometer would need to be.

They weren't open.  They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate, and something about these particular parts made
them especially susceptible to small amounts of helium.  It probably
changed the velocity of sound inside the device just enough to screw it
up.  Other brands of oscillator might also have been affected but if
they merely shifted off frequency a bit no one would have noticed.

It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become alarmed
and/or confused.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#51461 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

After serious thinking John Hasler wrote :
> Andy Burns writes:
>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
>> whereas a barometer would need to be.
>
> They weren't open.  They were sealed, and most likely contained 
> either a vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through 
> everything at an astounding rate, and something about these 
> particular parts made them especially susceptible to small amounts of 
> helium.  It probably changed the velocity of sound inside the device 
> just enough to screw it up.  Other brands of oscillator might also 
> have been affected but if they merely shifted off frequency a bit no 
> one would have noticed.
>
> It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
> shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become 
> alarmed and/or confused.

  I wonder how many Apple people have followed their bad oscillator 
apps off a cliff so far?

  This brings up an idea for a new hack.  Get in front of a self 
driving car and open up a helium bottle.

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#51533 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

In article <prfngq$j3j$1@news.mixmin.net>
Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> wrote:
>
> After serious thinking John Hasler wrote :
> > Andy Burns writes:
> >> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
> >> whereas a barometer would need to be.
> >
> > They weren't open.  They were sealed, and most likely contained
> > either a vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through
> > everything at an astounding rate, and something about these
> > particular parts made them especially susceptible to small amounts of
> > helium.  It probably changed the velocity of sound inside the device
> > just enough to screw it up.  Other brands of oscillator might also
> > have been affected but if they merely shifted off frequency a bit no
> > one would have noticed.
> >
> > It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
> > shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become
> > alarmed and/or confused.
>
>   I wonder how many Apple people have followed their bad oscillator
> apps off a cliff so far?
>
>   This brings up an idea for a new hack.  Get in front of a self
> driving car and open up a helium bottle.

helium rises...

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#51535 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 11/8/18 4:06 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> helium rises...

So what: in a mixture of gasses, they stay mixed due to Brownian movement.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key:166D840A 0C610C8B Registered Machine  1935521.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://linuxcounter.net
 ^^-^^ 08:05:01 up 29 days, 16:48, 2 users, load average: 4.42, 4.26, 4.11

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#51537 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Jean-David Beyer writes:
> So what: in a mixture of gasses, they stay mixed due to Brownian
> movement.

The helium isn't mixed with the air when it comes out of the bottle.
The plume of helium will tend to rise the same way a plume of hot air
does.

However, if you direct the jet of helium under the car...
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#51555 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 2018-11-08, Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/8/18 4:06 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> helium rises...
>
> So what: in a mixture of gasses, they stay mixed due to Brownian movement.
 When it escapes it is NOT a mixture. It is pure He, and that blob
rises. Even if it is mixed the He tends to go to the top ( which is one
of the reason the earth's atmosphere has no He or H since they rise to
the top of the atmosphere and escape). Just like you are advised to
crawl in a fire because the hot air and hot combustion gases rise
because they are (only slightly) less dense than cold air. He is 1/8 the
density of air.
>

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#51562 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 16:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

> He is 1/8 the
> density of air.

Thank you for that.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
My other computer is a HOLMES IV

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#51568 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 16:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> 
>> He is 1/8 the
>> density of air.
> 
> Thank you for that.
> 
> Cybe R. Wizard

And what of Hydrogen ?

Won't anyone think of the Hydrogen ?

I was burned by Hydrogen once. And the
hydrogen explosion (a separate event), just
lifted the floor sbove my head... a little bit.
And none of my family members came running, to see
what happened. That was the strangest event
of all.

*******

Come to think of it, I got an important empirical
result there. The hydrogen did stay as a cloud
near the ceiling. When I was in the process of
"burning off the excess for safety", the container
I was working with was still evolving a tiny amount
of hydrogen. And normally, I'd burn off the hydrogen
before anything nasty happened. In that case, I
waited a little too long to tend to it, and there
was a cloud over my head (that you can't see). (The
experiment was initially done outdoors for safety,
but I decided to bring it inside to disassemble it,
on the assumption the reaction had run to completion.
Bad assumption. Bad maintenance procedure.)

Eventually, the experiments with Hydrogen... stopped.

The Tevatron results here suggested that small gases
like that, they disperse and form a uniform
concentration from top to bottom, inside the
enclosure (room, building). But mine only had
time to float to the ceiling, and wasn't all
that dispersed.

http://lss.fnal.gov/archive/2005/conf/fermilab-conf-05-635-ad.pdf

    "The tests showed that gases, more readily than
     expected, diffused through an air column in the
     direction opposing buoyancy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_law

Well, that's save me buying a copy of Fluent.

    Paul

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#51547 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On Thu,  8 Nov 2018 10:06:47 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
<nobody@dizum.com> wrote:

>In article <prfngq$j3j$1@news.mixmin.net>
>Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> wrote:
>>
>> After serious thinking John Hasler wrote :
>> > Andy Burns writes:
>> >> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
>> >> whereas a barometer would need to be.
>> >
>> > They weren't open.  They were sealed, and most likely contained
>> > either a vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through
>> > everything at an astounding rate, and something about these
>> > particular parts made them especially susceptible to small amounts of
>> > helium.  It probably changed the velocity of sound inside the device
>> > just enough to screw it up.  Other brands of oscillator might also
>> > have been affected but if they merely shifted off frequency a bit no
>> > one would have noticed.
>> >
>> > It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
>> > shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become
>> > alarmed and/or confused.
>>
>>   I wonder how many Apple people have followed their bad oscillator
>> apps off a cliff so far?
>>
>>   This brings up an idea for a new hack.  Get in front of a self
>> driving car and open up a helium bottle.
>
>helium rises...

Helium plumbate?
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

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#51468 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

John Hasler wrote:
> Andy Burns writes:
>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
>> whereas a barometer would need to be.
> 
> They weren't open.  They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
> vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
> at an astounding rate, and something about these particular parts made
> them especially susceptible to small amounts of helium.  It probably
> changed the velocity of sound inside the device just enough to screw it
> up.  Other brands of oscillator might also have been affected but if
> they merely shifted off frequency a bit no one would have noticed.
> 
> It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
> shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become alarmed
> and/or confused.

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

I was looking to see if it had a breather hole
for pressure equalization, but it doesn't appear to
have that.

The dimensions of the device mean not a lot of
material can be dedicated to a hermetic seal.

It's like a speck of pepper, and the internal part
might be the item at the bottom of this picture.

   1.5 mm x 0.8 mm CSP
   0.6 mm max height
   0.3mm ball diameter (four electrical contacts)

https://m.eet.com/images/eetimes/2016/03/1329232/rcj_SiTime_MEMS_1.png

    Paul

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#51473 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Paul wrote:

> John Hasler wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns writes:
>>
>>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere
>>
>> They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
>> vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
>> at an astounding rate
> 
> They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
> (There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
> And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

<https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM>

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#51475 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Andy Burns wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> 
>> John Hasler wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere
>>>
>>> They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
>>> vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
>>> at an astounding rate
>>
>> They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
>> (There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
>> And a thin coating of polymer over that.
> 
> Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P
> 
> <https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM>

But are they really certain the frequency is correct ?

Maybe they should check it one... more... time... :-)

*******

And that was like, an elfen safety horror movie.
Did you spot all the naughty things they did ?

Doing Xray diffraction/crystallography with a
fluoroscope ? Yikes. No pension benefits needed
for that person. Of course, they also used to have
shoe Xray machines in department stores. But this
was back in the era when they didn't know any better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

    Paul

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#51479 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> John Hasler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andy Burns writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere
>>>>
>>>> They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
>>>> vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
>>>> at an astounding rate
>>>
>>> They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
>>> (There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
>>> And a thin coating of polymer over that.
>>
>> Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM>
> 
> But are they really certain the frequency is correct ?
> 
> Maybe they should check it one... more... time... :-)
> 
> *******
> 
> And that was like, an elfen safety horror movie.
> Did you spot all the naughty things they did ?
> 
> Doing Xray diffraction/crystallography with a
> fluoroscope ? Yikes. No pension benefits needed
> for that person. Of course, they also used to have
> shoe Xray machines in department stores. But this
> was back in the era when they didn't know any better.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope
> 
>     Paul

	Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
fun watching them on the fluoroscope.  Some adult always
switched it off before I had seen enough.
	
	bliss


-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#51494 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 02/11/2018 12:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>> But this
>> was back in the era when they didn't know any better.
>>
Back in the days when they knew better ITYM

Current Elfin Safety on radiation is probably about 1000 times overcautious.

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope
>>
>>     Paul
> 
>      Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
> wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
> fun watching them on the fluoroscope.  Some adult always
> switched it off before I had seen enough.
> 

Indeed. I had a cat scan last month. Probably enough radiation to set 
every alarm bell ringing in a nuclear power station.

Certainly more than a year living in Fukushima or Chernobyl exclusions 
zones.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/



-- 
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly 
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential 
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations 
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with 
what it actually is.

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#51496 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 2018-11-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 02/11/2018 12:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> But this
>>> was back in the era when they didn't know any better.
>>>
> Back in the days when they knew better ITYM
> 
> Current Elfin Safety on radiation is probably about 1000 times 
> overcautious.
> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope
>>>
>>>     Paul
>>
>>      Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
>> wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
>> fun watching them on the fluoroscope.  Some adult always
>> switched it off before I had seen enough.
>>
> 
> Indeed. I had a cat scan last month. Probably enough radiation to set 
> every alarm bell ringing in a nuclear power station.
> 
> Certainly more than a year living in Fukushima or Chernobyl exclusions 
> zones.
> 
> https://xkcd.com/radiation/

CAT machines use sensors, not film, hence don't require nearly as much 
radiation as film needed. But I don't know how much less, sorry.

Best,

-- 
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"Gentics is not genealogy." (Gragham Coop, Ph.D.)

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#51499 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 02/11/2018 20:31, Wolf K wrote:
> On 2018-11-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 02/11/2018 12:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>> On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> But this
>>>> was back in the era when they didn't know any better.
>>>>
>> Back in the days when they knew better ITYM
>>
>> Current Elfin Safety on radiation is probably about 1000 times 
>> overcautious.
>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope
>>>>
>>>>     Paul
>>>
>>>      Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
>>> wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
>>> fun watching them on the fluoroscope.  Some adult always
>>> switched it off before I had seen enough.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. I had a cat scan last month. Probably enough radiation to set 
>> every alarm bell ringing in a nuclear power station.
>>
>> Certainly more than a year living in Fukushima or Chernobyl exclusions 
>> zones.
>>
>> https://xkcd.com/radiation/
> 
> CAT machines use sensors, not film, hence don't require nearly as much 
> radiation as film needed. But I don't know how much less, sorry.
> 

That link says how much they generate. more . TONS more. Because they 
take a complete picture of your insides which is  seconds of radiation.

10mSv says this article

https://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=safety-xray

Now if you look at Fukushima exclusion, that’s  at around 2mSv/year

Well below background on e.g. Dartmoor UK (up to 10msV/yr) or indeed 
Ramsar in Iran (up to 200msV/yr)

If I can find this out so too could you have done.



> Best,
> 


-- 
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

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#51482 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

On 2018-11-02, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> John Hasler wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere
>>>
>>> They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
>>> vacuum or a specific gas.  However, helium diffuses through everything
>>> at an astounding rate
>> 
>> They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
>> (There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
>> And a thin coating of polymer over that.
>
> Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

They are hard to make very very small. 

>
><https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM>

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#51483 — Re: Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

Andy Burns writes:
> Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

Quartz crystals are too big, and you can't simply scale them down.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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