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This is what good old systemd has done to me...

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  This is what good old systemd has done to me... Ike <Ike@google.com> - 2019-01-13 15:23 -0600
    Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-01-13 22:39 +0000
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Ike" <Ike@google.com> - 2019-01-13 18:28 -0600
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 02:08 +0100
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Tech Systems" <querry@tci.com> - 2019-01-14 06:52 -0600
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 15:50 +0100
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-14 16:09 +0000
              Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Yrrah <Yrrah-aol@aol.invalid> - 2019-01-14 19:35 +0100
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2019-01-15 00:05 +0100
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-01-19 08:33 -0500
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Yrrah <Yrrah-aol@aol.invalid> - 2019-01-14 14:00 +0100
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Tech Systems" <querry@tci.com> - 2019-01-14 07:07 -0600
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 15:53 +0100
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Tech Systems" <querry@tci.com> - 2019-01-14 09:53 -0600
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Yrrah <Yrrah-aol@aol.invalid> - 2019-01-14 18:37 +0100
              Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 19:53 +0100
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-01-14 13:08 +0000
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Johnny <johnny@invalid.net> - 2019-01-14 08:35 -0600
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 15:53 +0100
    Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2019-01-13 17:46 -0500
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Ike" <Ike@google.com> - 2019-01-13 18:30 -0600
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2019-01-15 00:03 +0100
    Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-13 23:50 +0100
    Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "F. Russell" <fr@random.info> - 2019-01-14 01:02 +0000
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> - 2019-01-13 20:14 -0500
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-01-14 01:21 +0000
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-14 07:05 +0100
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 13:25 +0100
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-14 20:00 +0100
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-14 20:39 +0100
              Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-14 21:15 +0100
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Tech Systems <querry@tci.com> - 2019-01-14 07:00 -0600
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-14 19:51 +0000
      Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) - 2019-01-18 11:42 +0000
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-18 11:59 +0000
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2019-01-20 18:04 +0200
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-01-18 14:24 +0000
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:23 -0600
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-01-18 15:26 +0000
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-01-18 19:14 +0000
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-19 10:07 +0100
        Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-01-18 19:16 +0000
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-01-18 23:02 +0000
            Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-19 05:43 +0100
              Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-01-19 04:56 +0000
                Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-19 06:07 +0100
              Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-19 10:24 +0100
                Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-19 14:39 +0100
                  Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-19 20:57 +0100
          Re: This is what good old systemd has done to me... "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-01-19 10:08 +0100

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#52642

> Ike <Ike@google.com> writes:
>
>>  No longer can get email and after 3 days of digging, haven't been
>> able to find out what is wrong.  And people have accused me of 
>> simply hating systemd for no reason.
>
> What makes you think systemd has anything to with your ability to 
> read mail?
>
>> 'DNS query for me.com returned an error from the server: 
>> ServerFailure'
>
> I doubt that the message "ServerFailure" came from the remote mail
> server.
>
> For what it's worth, the message I get is:
>
>   homepc> nslookup me.com
>   Server:         192.168.1.1
>   Address:        192.168.1.1#53
>
>   Non-authoritative answer:
>   Name:   me.com
>   Address: 17.142.160.83
>   Name:   me.com
>   Address: 17.172.224.103
>   Name:   me.com
>   Address: 17.178.96.97
>
> You need to actually present your problem with real error messages
> and an actual description of what the problem is.
> Assuming you actually want something to work instead of picking
> your favorite scab.

  systemd lovers will never omit they are wrong.  I never had this 
happen before with non-systemd debian.

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#52681

Ike wrote:

>> Ike <Ike@google.com> writes:
>>
>>>  No longer can get email and after 3 days of digging, haven't been
>>> able to find out what is wrong.  And people have accused me of
>>> simply hating systemd for no reason.
>>
>> What makes you think systemd has anything to with your ability to
>> read mail?
>>
>>> 'DNS query for me.com returned an error from the server:
>>> ServerFailure'
>>
>> I doubt that the message "ServerFailure" came from the remote mail
>> server.
>>
>> For what it's worth, the message I get is:
>>
>>   homepc> nslookup me.com
>>   Server:         192.168.1.1
>>   Address:        192.168.1.1#53
>>
>>   Non-authoritative answer:
>>   Name:   me.com
>>   Address: 17.142.160.83
>>   Name:   me.com
>>   Address: 17.172.224.103
>>   Name:   me.com
>>   Address: 17.178.96.97
>>
>> You need to actually present your problem with real error messages
>> and an actual description of what the problem is.
>> Assuming you actually want something to work instead of picking
>> your favorite scab.
> 
>   systemd lovers will never omit they are wrong.  I never had this
> happen before with non-systemd debian.

Actually, it never happened to you at all. You are trolling, and badly at 
that. I would believe that you can't read mail from your wintendo system, 
given that you post with a windows-only newsreader. But that would be your 
problem and a windows problem. Which is also your problem

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#52640

On 13/01/2019 22.23, Ike wrote:
> 
>  No longer can get email and after 3 days of digging, haven't been able
> to find out what is wrong.  And people have accused me of simply hating
> systemd for no reason.

And why would that be a systemd problem?

And why are you posting to a Windows group? Are you trolling?


> 'DNS query for me.com returned an error from the server: ServerFailure'

It works here, and I'm using systemd.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#52644

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:

> And people have accused me of simply 
> hating systemd for no reason.
> 

For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.

Systemd is RedHat's attempt to foist a universal API, under its
total control and for its own profit, onto the Linux ecosystem.
This fact may not be that surprising, but what is surprising,
if not shocking, is the rapid acquiescence demonstrated by all
major distros to RedHat's wishes.

Distro maintainers are now the slaves and lackeys of RedHat.

Although unlikely, the only salvation for free software will
be the GNU HURD OS under strict control by GNU and the FSF.

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#52646

On 1/13/19 8:02 PM, F. Russell wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
> 
>> And people have accused me of simply
>> hating systemd for no reason.
> 
> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
> 
> Systemd is RedHat's attempt to foist a universal API, under its
> total control and for its own profit, onto the Linux ecosystem.
> This fact may not be that surprising, but what is surprising,
> if not shocking, is the rapid acquiescence demonstrated by all
> major distros to RedHat's wishes.
> 
> Distro maintainers are now the slaves and lackeys of RedHat.
> 
> Although unlikely, the only salvation for free software will
> be the GNU HURD OS under strict control by GNU and the FSF.

Why would that be unlikely? I'm listening (AND looking) 'cause I don't 
want anything that has to do with redhat on my desk

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#52647

On 2019-01-14, F. Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:
> Although unlikely, the only salvation for free software will
> be the GNU HURD OS under strict control by GNU and the FSF.

There are always the BSDs.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#52649

On 1/14/19 2:02 AM, F. Russell wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
> 
>> And people have accused me of simply
>> hating systemd for no reason.
>>
> 
> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.

I can see some use of systemd on single user workstation, but not on 
servers.


> Distro maintainers are now the slaves and lackeys of RedHat.

There are a number of systemd free distributions out there, just pick 
one from
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

-- 

  //Aho

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#52651

On 14/01/2019 07.05, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 1/14/19 2:02 AM, F. Russell wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
>>
>>> And people have accused me of simply
>>> hating systemd for no reason.
>>>
>>
>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
>> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
>> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
> 
> I can see some use of systemd on single user workstation, but not on
> servers.

My server uses systemd. No problem at all, never crashes.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#52670

On 1/14/19 1:25 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 14/01/2019 07.05, J.O. Aho wrote:
>> On 1/14/19 2:02 AM, F. Russell wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
>>>
>>>> And people have accused me of simply
>>>> hating systemd for no reason.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
>>> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
>>> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
>>
>> I can see some use of systemd on single user workstation, but not on
>> servers.
> 
> My server uses systemd. No problem at all, never crashes.

systemd gives you more security issues, this much due of it's bad habit 
to eat other projects, compared with the other init systems out there, 
we haven't seen as much of security issues as we have done in systemd.

Of course the security issues do not make your server to crash or not 
boot, just makes it possible that someone else uses your server for 
other things than you had in mind, as many of the security issues has 
been remotely exploitable.

-- 

  //Aho

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#52672

On 14/01/2019 20.00, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 1/14/19 1:25 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 14/01/2019 07.05, J.O. Aho wrote:
>>> On 1/14/19 2:02 AM, F. Russell wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And people have accused me of simply
>>>>> hating systemd for no reason.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
>>>> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
>>>> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
>>>
>>> I can see some use of systemd on single user workstation, but not on
>>> servers.
>>
>> My server uses systemd. No problem at all, never crashes.
> 
> systemd gives you more security issues, this much due of it's bad habit
> to eat other projects, compared with the other init systems out there,
> we haven't seen as much of security issues as we have done in systemd.

That doesn't follow.

However, if the distribution I use would ignore reported security issues
related to systemd, then I would be worried. As they are using system in
production servers in their business products, I don't worry.

However, the claim in this thread is that "mail failed" and of course,
it has to be systemd, wihout even looking :-p

Given that, I claim that mine works without any trouble for years. :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#52678

On 1/14/19 8:39 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 14/01/2019 20.00, J.O. Aho wrote:
>> On 1/14/19 1:25 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 14/01/2019 07.05, J.O. Aho wrote:
>>>> On 1/14/19 2:02 AM, F. Russell wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And people have accused me of simply
>>>>>> hating systemd for no reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
>>>>> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
>>>>> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
>>>>
>>>> I can see some use of systemd on single user workstation, but not on
>>>> servers.
>>>
>>> My server uses systemd. No problem at all, never crashes.
>>
>> systemd gives you more security issues, this much due of it's bad habit
>> to eat other projects, compared with the other init systems out there,
>> we haven't seen as much of security issues as we have done in systemd.
> 
> However, if the distribution I use would ignore reported security issues
> related to systemd, then I would be worried. As they are using system in
> production servers in their business products, I don't worry.

Not all security issues are found by the developers themselves or in 
this case the distributions maintainers, there could be a number of 
security issues no one on the "good side" knows, but someone on the 
other side do, this of course do not just apply to systemd but any other 
software out there.

What we know is that systemd is discovered to have really serious 
security issues, not that long time ago that they found a remote code 
execution issue. Even if the issue is patched, it don't mean that there 
ain't unpatched machines out there.


> However, the claim in this thread is that "mail failed" and of course,
> it has to be systemd, wihout even looking :-p

Didn't comment on the microsoft windows users flawed claim but what 
Russell wrote.


> Given that, I claim that mine works without any trouble for years. :-)

Sure, there are people still running microsoft windows xp and it's been 
working for them.


-- 

  //Aho

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#52656

> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:23:24 -0600, Ike wrote:
>
>> And people have accused me of simply 
>> hating systemd for no reason.
>> 
>
> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.
>
> Systemd is RedHat's attempt to foist a universal API, under its
> total control and for its own profit, onto the Linux ecosystem.
> This fact may not be that surprising, but what is surprising,
> if not shocking, is the rapid acquiescence demonstrated by all
> major distros to RedHat's wishes.
>
> Distro maintainers are now the slaves and lackeys of RedHat.
>
> Although unlikely, the only salvation for free software will
> be the GNU HURD OS under strict control by GNU and the FSF.

  I agree.  The VPS host I use has done away with the non-systemd 
Debian, so now the only non-systemd I can go to is OpenBDS.  OpenBDS is 
very good, but I am going to have to learn OpenBDS commands now.

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#52673

In comp.os.linux.misc, F. Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:
> Although unlikely, the only salvation for free software will
> be the GNU HURD OS under strict control by GNU and the FSF.

The only salvation for freedom is strict control? Yes, and Big Brother
Loves You.

Elijah
------
though "hurd" has some good pun possibilities

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#52745

In comp.os.linux.misc F. Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:

> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and
> massive layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it
> will reject all counterarguments for its usefulness.

I'm still wondering what was the reason for replacing sysvinit with 
systemd in default Debian installations despite users' protests.

-- 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lSzL1DqQn0

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#52746

queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) writes:
> I'm still wondering what was the reason for replacing sysvinit with 
> systemd in default Debian installations despite users' protests.

The debate occurred in public, so if you actually want to know, you can
read it.

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#52845

with <87r2da41mp.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) writes:

>> I'm still wondering what was the reason for replacing sysvinit with 
>> systemd in default Debian installations despite users' protests.
> The debate occurred in public, so if you actually want to know, you can
> read it.
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708

After The Choice has been made I've read many bug-threads and
mailing-list-threads, and spotted the leader (at the moment) telling
something akin "NDA says there's no NDA, remember?"

-- 
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

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#52749

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:42:42 +0000, Queequeg scribbled:

> In comp.os.linux.misc F. Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:
> 
>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and massive
>> layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it will reject all
>> counterarguments for its usefulness.
> 
> I'm still wondering what was the reason for replacing sysvinit with
> systemd in default Debian installations despite users' protests.

For most part, the fact that Debian wishes to continue supporting GNOME, 
which has more or less always been the default Debian desktop 
environment.  

systemd, GNOME/GDM and GTK+ are all developed at RedHat, and Lennart 
Poettering, the developer of systemd, asked the GNOME/GDM developers to 
make systemd into a hard dependency of GNOME/GDM.  So without systemd -- 
and most specifically, logind, which is part of the systemd suite -- you 
cannot have GNOME 3 on your system anymore.  Given that systemd is tied 
to the Linux kernel, this also implies that GNOME 3 cannot be used on any 
other UNIX variants than GNU/Linux anymore.

Personally I have no affection for GNOME -- nor for GTK, for that matter 
-- but being able to continue supporting GNOME is very important to the 
Debian council.

-- 
With respect,
= Aragorn =

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#52757

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:55 -0000 (UTC)
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:

> you 
> cannot have GNOME 3 on your system anymore.

Please, please, let me cannot have.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
This “We are not designing a desktop for people who …” has become a new
meme. GNOME 3 is not designed for people...
	Christoph Wickert

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#52758

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:23:44 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard scribbled:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:55 -0000 (UTC)
> Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
> 
>> you cannot have GNOME 3 on your system anymore.
> 
> Please, please, let me cannot have.

I hear you. :)  I've been a KDE fan since the beginning, and I"m running 
Plasma 5.14.5 right now, albeit with a theme and customizing that makes 
it look quite different from the default look & feel. ;)

-- 
With respect,
= Aragorn =

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#52770

On 2019-01-18, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:42:42 +0000, Queequeg scribbled:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.misc F. Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:
>> 
>>> For a personal workstation systemd is a TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and massive
>>> layer of pure junk.  Anyone stupid enough to accept it will reject all
>>> counterarguments for its usefulness.
>> 
>> I'm still wondering what was the reason for replacing sysvinit with
>> systemd in default Debian installations despite users' protests.
>
> For most part, the fact that Debian wishes to continue supporting GNOME, 
> which has more or less always been the default Debian desktop 
> environment.  
>
> systemd, GNOME/GDM and GTK+ are all developed at RedHat, and Lennart 
> Poettering, the developer of systemd, asked the GNOME/GDM developers to 
> make systemd into a hard dependency of GNOME/GDM.  So without systemd -- 
> and most specifically, logind, which is part of the systemd suite -- you 
> cannot have GNOME 3 on your system anymore.  Given that systemd is tied 
> to the Linux kernel, this also implies that GNOME 3 cannot be used on any 
> other UNIX variants than GNU/Linux anymore.

Not true.
https://www.freebsd.org/gnome/

-- 
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

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