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Groups > alt.os.linux.slackware > #26617

Re: TeX and Scribus

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Martha Adams <mhada@verizon.net> wrote:
<<snip>>
> Looking at how this thread has grown, I think I see my point about
> creeping elaboration demonstrated well.  Leading to a serious error,
> that elaborated software is presented as a natural starting point.
> 
> I think that in fact, Slackware's old plain TeX is an excellent
> starting point.  Good practice would be to provide that, and then
> offer the various elaborations for those who find some need for
> them.  In the mean time, I think it's worthwhile to mention that
> Knuth's seminal book, 'The TEXbook', surely connects closely to
> TeXs such as Slackware's, so that a beginner can start with a
> plain TeX and that book, and work herself into a very useful
> capacity for using it.  I wonder how people get started with those
> later elaborated varieties?
> 
> I think the original goodness of Slackware is preserved by keeping
> the original old TeX (mentioning Knuth's TeXBook along the way).
> That TeX can do just about anything you might reasonably want to do
> for technical exposition (Read the book, it might surprise you),
> and then there is all that stuff out there (and its exponents)
> for those who have a taste for the elaboration.  But to add all
> that to good old Slackware, would distract and degrade from its
> general usefulness and its goodness.
> 
> Namely: Start simple and build from that, works a whole lot better
> for most of us, than does start with some "sexy" elaboration.
> Which those without your especial inclinations may lose weeks to
> months to careers, trying to figure-out what the thing is.
> Titeotwawki -- Martha Adams [Wed 2016 Apr 06]

Okay, I'll bite -- who/what's "Titeotwawki"?

You're right that Knuth's plain.tex format, described in The TeXbook,
"can do just about anything" (your words above). And if you're living
in your own world, maybe that's all you need. But nowadays, the vast,
vast majority of the rest of the world prepares documents using the
latex.ltx format, or derivatives of it like revtex (the Physical Review
format). Just look at papers in arxiv.org or similar archives.
I haven't quantitatively counted, but less (probably lots, lots less)
than one percent use plain tex. If you're doing real work for use in
the real world, you're very, very unlikely to be using plain tex.
And it's very, very bad advice to suggest beginners start by
learning that.

That's like telling beginning programmers that postscript is
a Turing complete language, and therefore "can do just about
anything" (again, your words above). True enough, but I'd suggest
they first learn C/C++ or js or whatever. Nobody writes actual
programs in postscript -- but in the "lots, lots less than one
percent" category, see  pcal.sourceforge.net  which is a very nice
postscript calendar program, where the postscript file actually
contains the calendar-generating program itself. Still, programming
actual programs in the postscript language is analogous to writing
in plain tex -- nobody really does it, and it's certainly bad advice
to suggest it to beginners.

Oh, just for kicks, here's another little postscript program.
Cut-and-paste it to a file called globe.ps and then run gv
(ghostview) against it, i.e., gv globe.ps ...

/A/copy/p/floor/q/gt/S/add/n/exch/i/index/J/ifelse/r/roll/w/div/H{{loop}stopped
Y}def/t/and/C/neg/T/dup/h/exp/Y/pop/d/mul/s/cvi/e/sqrt/R/rlineto{load def}H 300
T translate(V2L&1i2A00053r45hNvQXz&vUX&UOvQXzFJ!FJ!J!O&Y43d9rE3IaN96r63rvx2dcaN
G&140N7!U&4C577d7!z&&93r6IQO2Z4o3AQYaNlxS2w!!f&nY9wn7wpSps1t1S!D&cjS5o32rS4oS3o
Z&blxC1SdC9n5dh!I&3STinTinTinY!B&V0R0VRVC0R!N&3A3Axe1nwc!l&993dC99Cc96raN!a&1CD
E&YYY!F&&vGYx4oGbxSd0nq&3IGbxSGY4Ixwca3AlvvUkbQkdbGYx4ofwnw!&vlx2w13wSb8Z4wS!J!
c&j1idj2id42rd!X&4I3Ax52r8Ia3A3Ax65rTdCS4iw5o5IxnwTTd32rCST0q&eCST0q&D1!&EYE0!J
&EYEY0!J0q!x&jd5o32rd4odSS!K&WCVW!Q&31C85d4!k&X&E9!&1!J!v&6A!b&7o!o&1r!j&43r!W)
{( )T 0 4 3 r put T(/)q{T(9)q{cvn}{s}J}{($)q{[}{]}J}J cvx}forall 270{def}H
K{K{L setgray moveto B fill}for Y}for showpage

-- 
John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )

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Thread

TeX and Scribus "john@wexfordpress.com" <john@wexfordpress.com> - 2016-04-04 08:12 -0700
  Re: TeX and Scribus Martha Adams <mhada@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 01:42 -0400
    Re: TeX and Scribus Joost Kremers <joost.m.kremers@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 07:25 +0000
      Re: TeX and Scribus W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> - 2016-04-05 14:15 +0000
        Re: TeX and Scribus Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2016-04-05 21:13 +0000
          Re: TeX and Scribus W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> - 2016-04-05 21:20 +0000
        Re: TeX and Scribus JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2016-04-06 07:14 +0000
          Re: TeX and Scribus Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2016-04-06 18:26 +0000
            Re: TeX and Scribus W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> - 2016-04-06 20:47 +0000
            Re: TeX and Scribus JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2016-04-07 00:11 +0000
              Re: TeX and Scribus Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2016-04-07 05:17 +0000
                Re: TeX and Scribus Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 05:13 +0000
    Re: TeX and Scribus "john@wexfordpress.com" <john@wexfordpress.com> - 2016-04-05 07:00 -0700
    Re: TeX and Scribus Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> - 2016-04-05 21:35 -0300
      Re: TeX and Scribus Martha Adams <mhada@verizon.net> - 2016-04-06 21:17 -0400
        Re: TeX and Scribus JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2016-04-07 04:54 +0000
        Re: TeX and Scribus Joost Kremers <joost.m.kremers@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 07:46 +0000
        Re: TeX and Scribus W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> - 2016-04-07 14:10 +0000

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