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Password incorrect after name change Home folder

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  Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 14:43 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 12:59 +0000
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:10 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 11:04 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:45 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:16 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-23 09:06 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:42 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 02:05 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 09:24 -0400
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:16 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-22 07:51 +0000
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:47 +0100
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:20 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:12 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:42 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-21 18:14 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-21 18:22 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 22:55 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:43 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 09:50 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:21 +0200
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 22:41 -0400
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:31 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-24 17:07 +0200
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:33 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:08 -0400
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 23:08 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-22 12:32 +0100
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 08:46 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:13 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:47 +0200
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 10:49 +0000
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 15:53 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 14:47 +0000
                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:48 +0200
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 23:03 -0400
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 14:06 +0200
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 12:52 +0000
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:40 +0200
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-25 14:31 +0100
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:46 +0200
                            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 17:39 +0000
                              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-26 17:02 +0100
                                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-26 17:44 +0100
                                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:07 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-25 09:42 -0400
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:22 +0200
                            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-28 14:22 +0100
                              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:35 +0100
                                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-30 09:30 +0100
                                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-30 15:28 +0100
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-25 13:27 +0000
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:04 +0200
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:51 +0000
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:34 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-27 18:57 -0400
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:40 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Monsieur <Monsieur@notreal.invalid> - 2025-10-28 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:48 +0100
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 14:54 +0100
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:33 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 17:52 +0100
                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:55 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:04 +0000
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:08 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 00:20 +0000

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#45605

On Fri, 10/24/2025 5:43 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:14:01 +0200, yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
>> How he manage to do that? I am not new to linux but I don't know how to
>> do that in GUI.
> 
> He showed me how he thinks he did it: apparently, he opened the file
> manager and then changed the name of the folder.
> 

I smell a rat. Watch your protege carefully, for signs
he knows more about this topic than he lets on.

   Paul

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#45611

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 09:50:41 -0400, Paul wrote:

> On Fri, 10/24/2025 5:43 AM, s|b wrote:
> > He showed me how he thinks he did it: apparently, he opened the file
> > manager and then changed the name of the folder.

> I smell a rat. Watch your protege carefully, for signs
> he knows more about this topic than he lets on.

Absolutely not. I made step-by-step instructions on how to set up Ventoy
and install a Linux OS and I still had to help him, looking over his
shoulder while he did it. 

He said he used to be a bit dismissive of Linux, but he's fed up with
Microsoft. More specific their recent policy of 'buy new hardware if you
want to use W11'. Linux Mint offers a safe environment for people who
want to do netbanking and digital 'government stuff' without having to
invest in new hardware.

-- 
s|b

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#45616

On Fri, 10/24/2025 11:21 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 09:50:41 -0400, Paul wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 10/24/2025 5:43 AM, s|b wrote:
>>> He showed me how he thinks he did it: apparently, he opened the file
>>> manager and then changed the name of the folder.
> 
>> I smell a rat. Watch your protege carefully, for signs
>> he knows more about this topic than he lets on.
> 
> Absolutely not. I made step-by-step instructions on how to set up Ventoy
> and install a Linux OS and I still had to help him, looking over his
> shoulder while he did it. 
> 
> He said he used to be a bit dismissive of Linux, but he's fed up with
> Microsoft. More specific their recent policy of 'buy new hardware if you
> want to use W11'. Linux Mint offers a safe environment for people who
> want to do netbanking and digital 'government stuff' without having to
> invest in new hardware.
> 

There's a little bit of Administrator humor here.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Users_and_groups#Change_a_user's_login_name_or_home_directory

    "Changing a username is safe and easy when done properly, just use the usermod command.
                                     ^^^^

    Also keep in mind the following notes:

    If you are using sudo make sure you update your /etc/sudoers to reflect the
    new username(s) (via the visudo command as root).

    Personal crontabs need to be adjusted by renaming the user's file in
    /var/spool/cron from the old to the new name, and then opening crontab -e to
    change any relevant paths and have it adjust the file permissions accordingly.

    Wine's personal directories/files' contents in ~/.wine/drive_c/users,
    ~/.local/share/applications/wine/Programs and possibly more need to be manually renamed/edited.

    Certain Thunderbird addons, like Enigmail, may need to be reinstalled.

    Anything on your system (desktop shortcuts, shell scripts, etc.) that uses an
    absolute path to your home dir (i.e. /home/oldname) will need to be changed
    to reflect your new name. To avoid these problems in shell scripts, simply
    use the ~ or $HOME variables for home directories.

    Also do not forget to edit accordingly the configuration files in /etc/ that
    relies on your absolute path (e.g. Samba, CUPS, so on). A nice way to learn
    what files you need to update involves using the grep command this way: grep -r old_user *
   "

Yes, easy maybe, but it sound tedious.
it makes doing a new install look like a solution.

   Paul

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#45619

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 22:41:53 -0400, Paul wrote:

> There's a little bit of Administrator humor here.
> 
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Users_and_groups#Change_a_user's_login_name_or_home_directory
> 
>     "Changing a username is safe and easy when done properly, just use the usermod command.
>                                      ^^^^

The fear of the command lines has always held me back from Linux. But
over the years more options became available in the GUI and installing
new software is now easier than it was.

I've got two Raspberry Pi devices here, running Pi-Hole, Unbound and
WireGuard under Debian and this was a good learning experience for me.
One Pi is headless, so I worked with SSH and command lines.
 
>     Also keep in mind the following notes:
> 
>     If you are using sudo make sure you update your /etc/sudoers to reflect the
>     new username(s) (via the visudo command as root).
> 
>     Personal crontabs need to be adjusted by renaming the user's file in
>     /var/spool/cron from the old to the new name, and then opening crontab -e to
>     change any relevant paths and have it adjust the file permissions accordingly.
> 
>     Wine's personal directories/files' contents in ~/.wine/drive_c/users,
>     ~/.local/share/applications/wine/Programs and possibly more need to be manually renamed/edited.
> 
>     Certain Thunderbird addons, like Enigmail, may need to be reinstalled.
> 
>     Anything on your system (desktop shortcuts, shell scripts, etc.) that uses an
>     absolute path to your home dir (i.e. /home/oldname) will need to be changed
>     to reflect your new name. To avoid these problems in shell scripts, simply
>     use the ~ or $HOME variables for home directories.
> 
>     Also do not forget to edit accordingly the configuration files in /etc/ that
>     relies on your absolute path (e.g. Samba, CUPS, so on). A nice way to learn
>     what files you need to update involves using the grep command this way: grep -r old_user *
>    "
> 
> Yes, easy maybe, but it sound tedious.
> it makes doing a new install look like a solution.

Once installed, we want to make it easy for the users. And I already
suggested to my supervisor that an external hdd would be required. This
way we would be able to make a copy of the data and/or an image of their
c: drive in case something goes wrong or in case they're not able to
adapt to Linux Mint and want to go back.

We learned there is such a thing as a Linux Repair Café, so if we can
find one in the neighbourhood, we could ask their advice or start a
cooperation where we can give a small introduction to Linux and then
refer people to the café. I could even volunteer to such a café and
learn a thing or two myself.

-- 
s|b

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#45609

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 11:43:22 +0200
"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:14:01 +0200, yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> > How he manage to do that? I am not new to linux but I don't know how to
> > do that in GUI.  
> 
> He showed me how he thinks he did it: apparently, he opened the file
> manager and then changed the name of the folder.
> 
You fall in Linux Mint login trap. Couple version back LM change the
way to install LM. Now there is no warnings about danger to be admin
when auto login. If I remember well before, you must made admin and user
when you install LM. Now it just continue and install user with sudo
authority. If you didn't make auto login your user can't change home
name. 



-- 
Running Linux Mint 22.2 (Zara) using Kernel=6.14.0-33-generic on x86_64
, Cinnamon, lightdm, x11
AMD Ryzen 7 5700G with Radeon Graphics (16) @ 5.288GHz

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#45620

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 17:07:11 +0200, yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>>
wrote:

> You fall in Linux Mint login trap. Couple version back LM change the
> way to install LM. Now there is no warnings about danger to be admin
> when auto login. If I remember well before, you must made admin and user
> when you install LM. Now it just continue and install user with sudo
> authority. If you didn't make auto login your user can't change home
> name. 

Fool me once, shame on thee, LM; fool me twice, shame on me.

-- 
s|b

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#45584

On Tue, 10/21/2025 8:43 AM, s|b wrote:
> I work as a volunteer and help people out with (small) digital problems:
> installing apps on their smartphone, explain how they work...
> 
> My "boss" wanted to play around with Linux, so he gave me an old laptop
> and I installed Linux Mint 22.2 Cinnamon 64-bit. He was very impressed
> and has been experimenting since, but he just contacted me about a
> problem. Apparently he changed the name of the Home folder (in the GUI)
> from 'Myname' to 'Organisationname' and now he can't login anymore. He
> sent me a screenshot that says:
> 
> Myname
> 
> Incorrect password, please try again
> 
> What I found weird is that my name is with a capital; the login I gave
> was without capital letter. (But I vaguely remember giving 'Myname' when
> it was asked during installation.)
> 
> He says he tried in Terminal with sudo, but it doesn't work. He also
> says he can't change the login to 'Organisationname', it seems stuck to
> 'Myname'. (I set up the laptop to autologin after boot.)
> 
> I'm in way over my head. I can install a Linux OS, install extra
> software, work with Wine to a certain degree, change small stuff, but I
> have never encountered this. I still haven't dumped Windows and switched
> 100% to Linux. I haven't got the laptop with me (yet), but I've
> searched, even asked Grok, and it all seems to come down to command
> lines in the Terminal.
> 
> Is there a simple solution to this? I would appreciate some tips.
> (Remember, I don't have the laptop yet.)
> 
> Tnx!
> 

You'll need your USB LiveDVD stick, to boot off the stick
and reach in and repair it.

     [Picture]  Select "Download Original" to get full resolution

      https://i.postimg.cc/kgVTbLpY/Fixing-a-homedir.gif

The Boss apparently used "sudo" to get into trouble :-)

This is presumably the same recipe as the "pinnerite" AI recipe.
I just made pictures in a VM for fun. I wanted to test
and see if it worked or not. If the boss made any additional
changes (like some sort of UNIX veteran), then you would
need to counter those moves to fix it. The boss could further mess
up the directory with "chmod" or "chown", and you would have
to do the inverse of that. If the boss did that, you would
know that this exercise was "an exam" and not an accident.
This smells a bit suspect as it is.

   Paul

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#45587

On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:08:04 -0400, Paul wrote:

> You'll need your USB LiveDVD stick, to boot off the stick
> and reach in and repair it.
> 
>      [Picture]  Select "Download Original" to get full resolution
> 
>       https://i.postimg.cc/kgVTbLpY/Fixing-a-homedir.gif

Tnx, Paul. I may use this for fun, just to see if I get it done, but
since he also wants to learn how to install Linux Mint I might as well
let him do it looking over his shoulder.
 
> The Boss apparently used "sudo" to get into trouble :-)

I guess that is my fault with the autologin with an admin account.
 
> This is presumably the same recipe as the "pinnerite" AI recipe.
> I just made pictures in a VM for fun. I wanted to test
> and see if it worked or not. If the boss made any additional
> changes (like some sort of UNIX veteran), then you would
> need to counter those moves to fix it. The boss could further mess
> up the directory with "chmod" or "chown", and you would have
> to do the inverse of that. If the boss did that, you would
> know that this exercise was "an exam" and not an accident.
> This smells a bit suspect as it is.

Well, I told him I knew how to install Linux Mint and run the basics
(mail, browser, office, repositories, menu settings, install other
software, ...), but that I was in no way an expert. I guess this is what
you get when you combine two amateurs. This is what we call 'leergeld'
(learning money).

-- 
s|b

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#45590

On 21/10/2025 at 22:08, s|b wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:08:04 -0400, Paul wrote:
> 
>> You'll need your USB LiveDVD stick, to boot off the stick
>> and reach in and repair it.
>>
>>       [Picture]  Select "Download Original" to get full resolution
>>
>>        https://i.postimg.cc/kgVTbLpY/Fixing-a-homedir.gif
> 
> Tnx, Paul. I may use this for fun, just to see if I get it done, but
> since he also wants to learn how to install Linux Mint I might as well
> let him do it looking over his shoulder.
>   
>> The Boss apparently used "sudo" to get into trouble :-)
> 
> I guess that is my fault with the autologin with an admin account.

Never run X/Wayland as root!
Autologin should have been 'boss'.

Renaming /home/boss to /home/Boss does not change the login name, but it 
does make the record in /etc/passwd point to a non-existant home 
directory for user boss.
'Bad password' might easily be a red herring; trying to log in as Boss 
(this user doesn't exist) will give the 'bad password' error.

None of these problems are fatal _if_ you can log in as root. Just 
reverse the rename and make sure boss record in /etc/passwd is 
consistent. If you can't log in as root, do as suggested - boot with 
your install stick and do the rename from that. Remember to mount your 
root device (/dev/sda1, perhaps) on (e.g.) /mnt and then make the 
modifications in /mnt/home/ and /mnt/etc/passwd.

>   
>> This is presumably the same recipe as the "pinnerite" AI recipe.
>> I just made pictures in a VM for fun. I wanted to test
>> and see if it worked or not. If the boss made any additional
>> changes (like some sort of UNIX veteran), then you would
>> need to counter those moves to fix it. The boss could further mess
>> up the directory with "chmod" or "chown", and you would have
>> to do the inverse of that. If the boss did that, you would
>> know that this exercise was "an exam" and not an accident.
>> This smells a bit suspect as it is.
> 
> Well, I told him I knew how to install Linux Mint and run the basics
> (mail, browser, office, repositories, menu settings, install other
> software, ...), but that I was in no way an expert. I guess this is what
> you get when you combine two amateurs. This is what we call 'leergeld'
> (learning money).
> 



-- 
Chris Elvidge, England
I AM NOT AUTHORIZED TO FIRE SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 1F09

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#45591

On Wed, 10/22/2025 7:32 AM, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> On 21/10/2025 at 22:08, s|b wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:08:04 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> You'll need your USB LiveDVD stick, to boot off the stick
>>> and reach in and repair it.
>>>
>>>       [Picture]  Select "Download Original" to get full resolution
>>>
>>>        https://i.postimg.cc/kgVTbLpY/Fixing-a-homedir.gif
>>
>> Tnx, Paul. I may use this for fun, just to see if I get it done, but
>> since he also wants to learn how to install Linux Mint I might as well
>> let him do it looking over his shoulder.
>>  
>>> The Boss apparently used "sudo" to get into trouble :-)
>>
>> I guess that is my fault with the autologin with an admin account.
> 
> Never run X/Wayland as root!
> Autologin should have been 'boss'.
> 
> Renaming /home/boss to /home/Boss does not change the login name, but it does make the record in /etc/passwd point to a non-existant home directory for user boss.
> 'Bad password' might easily be a red herring; trying to log in as Boss (this user doesn't exist) will give the 'bad password' error.
> 
> None of these problems are fatal _if_ you can log in as root. Just reverse the rename and make sure boss record in /etc/passwd is consistent. If you can't log in as root, do as suggested - boot with your install stick and do the rename from that. Remember to mount your root device (/dev/sda1, perhaps) on (e.g.) /mnt and then make the modifications in /mnt/home/ and /mnt/etc/passwd.
> 

Using "gnome-disks" program, you can click the disk drive name
on the left, then like Disk Management, click the large partition
(which is the slash partition perhaps), and the triangle button on the
left underneath the disk row, should be labeled as "mount" via a balloon.
This auto-mounts the partition and the identifier in this case
on mine, was a GUID-type string. An additional mount may be
needed if /home is stored on yet another partition.

The "df" command ("diskfree") shows the names of the mounted
items, and maybe a new item beginning with /media/mint/...
is present. You can CD to that, CD to home on there, and
the boss string needing correction should be there.

Since /media/mount/.../home is owned by root, it takes
sudo there, to rename the boss string back to the boss-original
value.

If you use

   cat /media/mount/.../etc/passwd                                    # Display contents of password file

   bullwinkle:x:1000:1000:bullwinkle,,,:/home/bullwinkle:/bin/bash    # my home is /home/bullwinkle
   root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash                                    # Root home is irregular and is in /root

you should be able to review the row corresponding to the
boss account, and verify the pathname for the profile.
You can see the numeric identifier in the usernum:groupnum field.
That's the numeric identifier which is the same as saying "boss" in the
string form of it. Whether a shadow file is being used,
will just affect the appearance of where the password field
would go. The letter "x" indicates the password is in the shadow.

And there is a demo of using "adduser" here.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/19455/using-capitals-in-my-username

The usage of "sudo", a lot of users don't understand that on
un-configured boxes, you have to set up sudo for each user
your own self, and define the sub-range of things you want
the user to be able to do. For example, at work, only "mount"
and "umount" might have been extended as privileges to a UNIX
user. And those could be taken away, if you were caught being
naughty. "sudo" doesn't have to work, and you can be "denied"
on a box. While we use sudo like there is no tomorrow, it's
a privilege to have that capability, and not every OS you sit
in front of, has the carefree config you see on the screen in this case.

*******

When you work in a Terminal, an invocation of a program can block.

$ gnome-disks             # won't accept new commands until you exit gnome-disks

If you type <ctrl>-z , that puts that application asleep,
and if you then enter "bg", that separates the process from
the parent. And the command prompt is then free to accept
a new command. A status line is displayed, with an interesting
representation, a kind of hint for the next time. If you use
the hint, and you type it this way...

$ gnome-disks &

that separates the executable from the parent right away,
and saves on having to perform the ceremony in the paragraph
immediately above.

That's just a bare intro to job management in a Terminal.

   Paul

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#45593

On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 12:32:33 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:

> ... boot with your install stick and do the rename from that.

There is a distro that comes preinstalled with the most common tools for 
fixing up screwups in general <https://www.system-rescue.org/>. It can 
also fix some problems with Windows systems! Always worth keeping a copy 
handy on a bootable USB stick.

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#45602

On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 12:32:33 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:

8< snip >8
> Never run X/Wayland as root!
> Autologin should have been 'boss'.

Yesterday, we found out how to make another account without admin
rights. Today, I noticed under settings you can also make a guest
account.

So if we're going to do to help other people, the best way is to make an
account with root access, then make an account (with password) with no
root and the autologin with the latter?

How can I access the root account if I do this? Autologin and then
simply sign in with the root account?

-- 
s|b

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#45603

On 2025-10-24, s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 12:32:33 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>
> 8< snip >8
>> Never run X/Wayland as root!
>> Autologin should have been 'boss'.
>
> Yesterday, we found out how to make another account without admin
> rights. Today, I noticed under settings you can also make a guest
> account.
>
> So if we're going to do to help other people, the best way is to make an
> account with root access, then make an account (with password) with no
> root and the autologin with the latter?

Well, I'm not really a proponent of auto-login at all.  It's not like
having to type a password once in a while is exactly onerous (unless
like they're turning off the PC 30 times a day or something).

What exactly do you mean by "help other people"?


-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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#45606

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 10:49:03 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Well, I'm not really a proponent of auto-login at all.  It's not like
> having to type a password once in a while is exactly onerous (unless
> like they're turning off the PC 30 times a day or something).
> 
> What exactly do you mean by "help other people"?

I already mentioned in my OP that I work as a volunteer to help people
with (small) digital problems. It's amazing how many people 'missed the
(digital) boat'. Support for W10 is now extended in the EU, but after
Oct 2026 they will be faced with the same problem: keep working with an
unsupported W10*or buy an expensive laptop/PC with W11 for which they
have no money. Meanwhile their hardware can run Linux Mint without
problems, so if they only use it for browsing, mail (most likely
webmail) and text, spreadsheet, PDF, ... why not help them switch to
Linux Mint (or some other lightweight distribution) ?

With these people you have to set the bar very low. Most of the times
they can't remember their password(s). They'd probably stick a note on
their laptop or PC. So we would have to make it as easy as possible for
them. That means: no nagging for a password every time they switch their
device on.

If it's possible (and I think so) to create a root account with password
and then an account without root access while still having a password
and to auto login with the latter, that would be ideal, for the _user_.


* Banks will not take responsibility if they can shift responsibility to
the user who is doing bank transfers on an unsupported OS.

-- 
s|b

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#45608

On 2025-10-24, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 10:49:03 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> Well, I'm not really a proponent of auto-login at all.  It's not like
>> having to type a password once in a while is exactly onerous (unless
>> like they're turning off the PC 30 times a day or something).
>> 
>> What exactly do you mean by "help other people"?
>
> I already mentioned in my OP that I work as a volunteer to help people
> with (small) digital problems. [...]
>
> With these people you have to set the bar very low. Most of the times
> they can't remember their password(s). They'd probably stick a note on
> their laptop or PC. So we would have to make it as easy as possible for
> them. That means: no nagging for a password every time they switch their
> device on.
I've re-read your OP twice now, and it only says that you're doing
this for your "boss" (supervisor, whatever).

What you *DIDN'T* say was that your plan was to do this on property
owned by *OTHER PEOPLE* unaffiliated with your business.  It's not your
(company's) machine, don't do that.

-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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#45614

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 14:47:30 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> I've re-read your OP twice now, and it only says that you're doing
> this for your "boss" (supervisor, whatever).

"I work as a volunteer and help people out with (small) digital
problems:"

It's right there.
 
> What you *DIDN'T* say was that your plan was to do this on property
> owned by *OTHER PEOPLE* unaffiliated with your business.  It's not your
> (company's) machine, don't do that.

We DON'T have a BUSINESS; we're VOLUNTEERS (as said in the OP). ATM we
get funding from the EU, but that is not about installing Linux Mint.
That's about helping people with (small) digital problems.

My "boss", supervisor is indeed a better word, but English isn't my
native language, so I said 'boss' -> " ", he's got a broader
perspective. Supervising us is not the only thing he does. He sees an
opportunity in installing a safe alternative for W10 for people who
can't afford new hardware (and W11). That's a noble thing. We would be
doing these people a favour. Of course, we (well, especially him) need
to learn a lot more before we decide to go further with this. EU users
can subscribe to ESU for W10, so it will be supported unit Oct 16 2026.
So we've got time to learn and experiment (and break things).

If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
nitpicking.

-- 
s|b

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#45617

On Fri, 10/24/2025 2:48 PM, s|b wrote:

> 
> If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
> nitpicking.
> 

If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without
a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's
not helping.

For example, you help them in some non-standard way,
they seek help from someone else, and that someone else
asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt
the help being received at both sites.

Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.

*******

Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was removed".
Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best intentions.
Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who has had
too much caffeine" ? I don't know./

If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed
Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,
I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation
available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,
because key packages were removed.

In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from
thousands of people who could help you with your problem,
to two guys in a Github Issues thread.

I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the
street, rather than off-roading.

If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account
enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to
select, where everything is designed with that in mind.
For example, one distro (Knoppix?), had a red colored
Root Terminal right on the Taskbar, you click that and
you're administering as root. Knoppix is a distro intended
to run from the DvD, rather than being an install-able
distro. That's an example where I may have "shopped"
for a distro which is equipped that way.

Knoppix in the old days, would do mounts read-only. This
is good for forensic work, where you want to "look but
don't touch". You can do a "remount" to open a volume
r/w and write files on it. I liked that, as a "safety approach".
Other distros, some mount everything in sight and splatter
the left hand vertical area with disk icons. Other distros
now hide everything, and when you mount, you use
gnome-disks and click the partition you want mounted.

Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they
were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to
explain the philosophy and work within the constraints
that provides.

Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a
         situation worse than it already is. I've watched one
         person who does IT as a small operation of his own for
         money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts
         the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke
         so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers
         do not have the time for "remoting into customer X
         computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how
         he works. He wrote his own backup software.

         Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the distro".
         Just some friendly advice.

         This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.

         https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

   Paul

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#45621

On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:03:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

> If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without
> a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's
> not helping.

I understand, but as I said: it's just early days. We have until Oct
2026 to prepare. Apparently, there's such a thing as Linux Repair Café
with volunteers who do exactly what we want to do. We can cooperate with
them or simply organise info sessions (my supervisor does this already)
to introduce Linux Mint as a W10 (or older) alternative and then refer
our people to them. I could even volunteer in such a café and extend my
knowledge (or lack of) about Linux.
 
> For example, you help them in some non-standard way,
> they seek help from someone else, and that someone else
> asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt
> the help being received at both sites.

We already have that with people who come by with their smartphone.
Their son/daughter/friend/neighbour/... has given them (wrong) advice
and we solve it.
 
> Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.
> 
> *******
> 
> Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was removed".
> Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best intentions.
> Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who has had
> too much caffeine" ? I don't know./
> 
> If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed
> Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,
> I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation
> available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,
> because key packages were removed.
> 
> In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from
> thousands of people who could help you with your problem,
> to two guys in a Github Issues thread.
> 
> I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the
> street, rather than off-roading.

I understand, but W10's support will end and their hardware will not
support W11. Buying new hardware isn't an option for most people and
sticking with W10 isn't an option either, not if these people will use
their device for netbanking. In general, Belgian banks consider their
system safe, there's a card reader and an app called Itsme which are
used as a form of 2FA, but in case of a breach a bank could say: 'Well,
you were using an OS that isn't supported anymore. You're responsible,
not us.'

How can you stay between the lines when W10 as well as W11 isn't an
option? In case of a problem, people would still come to us or a Café. A
lot of these people are 'digibeet' (computer illiterate); they're not
the type to ask help in a Github thread.
 
> If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account
> enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to
> select, where everything is designed with that in mind.
> For example, one distro (Knoppix?), 
8< snip >8

I used Knoppix a long time ago, but ATM Linux Mint is one of the most
popular (= more people that can help) and the problem could be solved by
making a second user with no root account. I have a cousin in IT who
installed Windows at his parents this way. Their account didn't have
admin rights. The idea is that our organisation (or a Linux Repair Café)
would offer assistance after installation.
 
> Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they
> were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to
> explain the philosophy and work within the constraints
> that provides.
> 
> Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a
>          situation worse than it already is. I've watched one
>          person who does IT as a small operation of his own for
>          money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts
>          the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke
>          so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers
>          do not have the time for "remoting into customer X
>          computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how
>          he works. He wrote his own backup software.
> 
>          Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the distro".
>          Just some friendly advice.

As I said, it's still early days. The public we want to reach is people
with older hardware, not able to afford W10 and who only use their
PC/laptop for browsing, mail, text, spreadsheet, PDF, music, movies, ...

We have until Oct 2026 to think this over. It's not even decided if
we're actually going to do this. Right now, we're just experimenting and
brain storming.
 
>          This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.
> 
>          https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,
let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for
instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?

-- 
s|b

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#45622

At Sat, 25 Oct 2025 14:06:28 +0200, "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:03:29 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
> > If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without
> > a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's
> > not helping.
>
> I understand, but as I said: it's just early days. We have until Oct
> 2026 to prepare. Apparently, there's such a thing as Linux Repair
> Café with volunteers who do exactly what we want to do. We can
> cooperate with them or simply organise info sessions (my supervisor
> does this already) to introduce Linux Mint as a W10 (or older)
> alternative and then refer our people to them. I could even volunteer
> in such a café and extend my knowledge (or lack of) about Linux.

Thank you for mentioning them -- this is really cool!

https://www.repaircafe.org/en/new-starter-kit-for-your-own-linux-repair-cafe/

I clicked on "find" and found them all over the place, including several
here in the SF Bay area.

>
> > For example, you help them in some non-standard way,
> > they seek help from someone else, and that someone else
> > asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt
> > the help being received at both sites.
>
> We already have that with people who come by with their smartphone.
> Their son/daughter/friend/neighbour/... has given them (wrong) advice
> and we solve it.
>
> > Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.
> >
> > *******
> >
> > Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was
> > removed". Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best
> > intentions. Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who
> > has had too much caffeine" ? I don't know./
> >
> > If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed
> > Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,
> > I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation
> > available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,
> > because key packages were removed.
> >
> > In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from
> > thousands of people who could help you with your problem,
> > to two guys in a Github Issues thread.
> >
> > I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the
> > street, rather than off-roading.
>
> I understand, but W10's support will end and their hardware will not
> support W11. Buying new hardware isn't an option for most people and
> sticking with W10 isn't an option either, not if these people will
> use their device for netbanking. In general, Belgian banks consider
> their system safe, there's a card reader and an app called Itsme
> which are used as a form of 2FA, but in case of a breach a bank could
> say: 'Well, you were using an OS that isn't supported anymore. You're
> responsible, not us.'
>
> How can you stay between the lines when W10 as well as W11 isn't an
> option? In case of a problem, people would still come to us or a
> Café. A lot of these people are 'digibeet' (computer illiterate);
> they're not the type to ask help in a Github thread.
>
> > If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account
> > enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to
> > select, where everything is designed with that in mind.
> > For example, one distro (Knoppix?), 
> 8< snip >8
>
> I used Knoppix a long time ago, but ATM Linux Mint is one of the most
> popular (= more people that can help) and the problem could be solved
> by making a second user with no root account. I have a cousin in IT
> who installed Windows at his parents this way. Their account didn't
> have admin rights. The idea is that our organisation (or a Linux
> Repair Café) would offer assistance after installation.
>
> > Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they
> > were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to
> > explain the philosophy and work within the constraints
> > that provides.
> >
> > Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a
> >          situation worse than it already is. I've watched one
> >          person who does IT as a small operation of his own for
> >          money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts
> >          the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke
> >          so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers
> >          do not have the time for "remoting into customer X
> >          computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how
> >          he works. He wrote his own backup software.
> >
> >	     Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the
> >	     distro". Just some friendly advice.
>
> As I said, it's still early days. The public we want to reach is
> people with older hardware, not able to afford W10 and who only use
> their PC/laptop for browsing, mail, text, spreadsheet, PDF, music,
> movies, ...
>
> We have until Oct 2026 to think this over. It's not even decided if
> we're actually going to do this. Right now, we're just experimenting
> and brain storming.
>
> >          This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.
> >
> >	     https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
>
> That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure
> distribution, let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less
> support than for instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?



-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
   OS: Linux 6.17.5 D: Mint 22.2 DE: Xfce 4.18 
   NVIDIA: 580.95.05 Mem: 258G
   "... "I'll be Bach." - Johann Sebastian Schwarzenegger"

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#45626

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 12:52:55 +0000, vallor wrote:

8< s|b - Linux Repair Café >8
> Thank you for mentioning them -- this is really cool!
> 
> https://www.repaircafe.org/en/new-starter-kit-for-your-own-linux-repair-cafe/
> 
> I clicked on "find" and found them all over the place, including several
> here in the SF Bay area.

One is glad to be of service.

-- 
s|b

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