Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder

From	"s\|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.os.linux.mint
Subject	Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder
Date	2025-10-25 14:06 +0200
Organization	XXII
Message-ID	<mm3sq3F9dfqU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <slrn10fmmcv.2if.dan@djph.net> <mm1em9Frf19U1@mid.individual.net> <slrn10fn4c2.2if.dan@djph.net> <mm200fFu9m7U1@mid.individual.net> <10dhem2$31su2$1@dont-email.me>

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On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:03:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

> If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without
> a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's
> not helping.

I understand, but as I said: it's just early days. We have until Oct
2026 to prepare. Apparently, there's such a thing as Linux Repair Café
with volunteers who do exactly what we want to do. We can cooperate with
them or simply organise info sessions (my supervisor does this already)
to introduce Linux Mint as a W10 (or older) alternative and then refer
our people to them. I could even volunteer in such a café and extend my
knowledge (or lack of) about Linux.

> For example, you help them in some non-standard way,
> they seek help from someone else, and that someone else
> asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt
> the help being received at both sites.

We already have that with people who come by with their smartphone.
Their son/daughter/friend/neighbour/... has given them (wrong) advice
and we solve it.

> Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.
> 
> *******
> 
> Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was removed".
> Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best intentions.
> Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who has had
> too much caffeine" ? I don't know./
> 
> If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed
> Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,
> I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation
> available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,
> because key packages were removed.
> 
> In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from
> thousands of people who could help you with your problem,
> to two guys in a Github Issues thread.
> 
> I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the
> street, rather than off-roading.

I understand, but W10's support will end and their hardware will not
support W11. Buying new hardware isn't an option for most people and
sticking with W10 isn't an option either, not if these people will use
their device for netbanking. In general, Belgian banks consider their
system safe, there's a card reader and an app called Itsme which are
used as a form of 2FA, but in case of a breach a bank could say: 'Well,
you were using an OS that isn't supported anymore. You're responsible,
not us.'

How can you stay between the lines when W10 as well as W11 isn't an
option? In case of a problem, people would still come to us or a Café. A
lot of these people are 'digibeet' (computer illiterate); they're not
the type to ask help in a Github thread.

> If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account
> enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to
> select, where everything is designed with that in mind.
> For example, one distro (Knoppix?), 
8< snip >8

I used Knoppix a long time ago, but ATM Linux Mint is one of the most
popular (= more people that can help) and the problem could be solved by
making a second user with no root account. I have a cousin in IT who
installed Windows at his parents this way. Their account didn't have
admin rights. The idea is that our organisation (or a Linux Repair Café)
would offer assistance after installation.

> Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they
> were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to
> explain the philosophy and work within the constraints
> that provides.
> 
> Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a
>          situation worse than it already is. I've watched one
>          person who does IT as a small operation of his own for
>          money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts
>          the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke
>          so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers
>          do not have the time for "remoting into customer X
>          computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how
>          he works. He wrote his own backup software.
> 
>          Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the distro".
>          Just some friendly advice.

As I said, it's still early days. The public we want to reach is people
with older hardware, not able to afford W10 and who only use their
PC/laptop for browsing, mail, text, spreadsheet, PDF, music, movies, ...

We have until Oct 2026 to think this over. It's not even decided if
we're actually going to do this. Right now, we're just experimenting and
brain storming.

>          This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.
> 
>          https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,
let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for
instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?

-- 
s|b

Thread

Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 14:43 +0200
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 12:59 +0000
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:10 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 11:04 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:45 +0000
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:16 +0000
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-23 09:06 -0400
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:42 +0000
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 02:05 -0400
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 09:24 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:16 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-22 07:51 +0000
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:47 +0100
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:20 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:12 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:42 +0200
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-21 18:14 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-21 18:22 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 22:55 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:43 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 09:50 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:21 +0200
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 22:41 -0400
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:31 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-24 17:07 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:33 +0200
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:08 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 23:08 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-22 12:32 +0100
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 08:46 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:13 +0000
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:47 +0200
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 10:49 +0000
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 15:53 +0200
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 14:47 +0000
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:48 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 23:03 -0400
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 14:06 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 12:52 +0000
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:40 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-25 14:31 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:46 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 17:39 +0000
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-26 17:02 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-26 17:44 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:07 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-25 09:42 -0400
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:22 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-28 14:22 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:35 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-30 09:30 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-30 15:28 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-25 13:27 +0000
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:04 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:51 +0000
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:34 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-27 18:57 -0400
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:40 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Monsieur <Monsieur@notreal.invalid> - 2025-10-28 15:05 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:48 +0100
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 14:54 +0100
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:33 +0200
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 17:52 +0100
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:55 +0200
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:04 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:08 -0400
  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 00:20 +0000

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