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Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun

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  Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> - 2016-10-02 15:52 +0200
    Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2016-10-02 16:41 +0200
      Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 22:43 +0800
        Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2016-10-02 18:17 +0200
          Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 00:24 +0800
    Re: [OT] Systemd fun fun fun Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> - 2016-10-02 20:10 +0200
      Re: Systemd fun fun fun Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2016-10-04 16:40 +0000
        Re: Systemd fun fun fun Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> - 2016-10-04 19:06 +0200
          Re: Systemd fun fun fun Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2016-10-04 17:20 +0000
            Re: Systemd fun fun fun Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2016-10-18 11:45 +0000
        Re: Systemd fun fun fun Innocuous <myemail6622@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-28 10:30 -0500
          Re: Systemd fun fun fun William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2017-01-28 18:55 +0000
            Re: Systemd fun fun fun "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2017-01-28 22:23 +0100
            Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-28 22:13 +0000
              Re: Systemd fun fun fun Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-01-28 22:29 +0000
              Re: Systemd fun fun fun "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2017-01-29 02:43 +0100
                Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-29 09:01 +0000
                  Re: Systemd fun fun fun "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2017-01-29 12:40 +0100
                    Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-29 19:07 +0000
                      Re: Systemd fun fun fun "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2017-01-29 20:50 +0100
                        [A BIT SOLVED]Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-29 20:13 +0000
                  Re: Systemd fun fun fun "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2017-01-30 04:23 +0100
                    Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-30 08:38 +0000
                      Re: Systemd fun fun fun "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2017-01-30 14:12 +0100
                        Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-30 15:05 +0000
                        Re: Systemd fun fun fun "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2017-01-30 11:53 -0600
                Re: Systemd fun fun fun Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2017-01-29 11:38 -0200
                  Re: Systemd fun fun fun Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-01-29 19:54 -0500
              Re: Systemd fun fun fun William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2017-01-29 07:00 +0000
                Re: Systemd fun fun fun Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-01-29 09:01 +0000
            Re: Systemd fun fun fun Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2017-01-29 15:49 +0000
          Re: Systemd fun fun fun "Chester A. Arthur" <deadprez@whitehouse.com> - 2017-01-28 14:06 -0600
            Re: Systemd fun fun fun senior-student <senior-student@fakemail.net> - 2017-01-28 21:27 +0000

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#8640 — [A BIT SOLVED]Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:50:02 +0100
"J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote:

> On 01/29/17 20:07, Joe wrote:
> > On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 12:40:49 +0100
> > "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 01/29/17 10:01, Joe wrote:  

> >>>
> >>> In recent months, the *next* screen says 'loading ramdisc' or
> >>> similar, followed by 'press any key' and sits there for ten
> >>> seconds or so if I don't press a key. I haven't found anything
> >>> anywhere which seems to refer to this.    
> >>
> >> This would be in dracut settings, which is the one used in many
> >> distribution to build the initramfs image. Most likely a change in
> >> a script your distro uses or you have by mistake changed.
> >>  
> > 
> > Thatnks for the try, but dracut isn't installed here and
> > initramfs-tools is used to create the initrd.  
> 
> Should be possible with that too.
> 
> > I can find nothing
> > in /etc/initramfs-tools referring to a time.  
> 
> I would take a look at the script it may build into the initramfs, you
> could take the one you have and unpack it and see what's inside, if
> you don't seem to find it there then I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> > There's no /etc/default entry for initramfs-tools, and the grub
> > entry contains only its own timeout.  
> 
> When reread your original post, you said it was before initrd, which
> then should rule out the initramfs file.
> 
> Have you looked at the scripts in /etc/grub.d ? those are used to make
> the entries in the grub menu.
> 
> 
OK, a bit of light is shed. I'm seeing these lines after the grub menu
selection or timeout:

oading Linux <kernel number>...
oading initial ramdisk...

ress any key to continue...


I'm making the assumption that the monitor has not yet synchronised and
there are the letters L, L and P at the beginning of these three lines.

If I make the assumption that there is also a vertical error, leave the
system sitting on the grub menu until I manually pull the sync across
and down, then go onto the next page, I see the line:

no symbol table

above the others. Light dawns. I still don't know what the problem is,
but I now know it isn't some new configuration that I'm missing, it's
something broken. It looks like this:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=841297

 except I don't have grub-efi. Poking around further, some people say
it can be fixed by repairing or reinstalling grub, but it's not causing
me enough trouble to be worth the risk. Presumably when a new grub2
arrives, it will sort itself out.

Hope this helps someone else, at least about the monitor gotcha...

-- 
Joe

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#8642 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On 2017-01-29 10:01, Joe wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 02:43:05 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-01-28 23:13, Joe wrote:
>>> Fast booting would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. Some
>>> months ago, to add insult to injury, grub started adding about a
>>> ten-second timeout ('Press any key..') before loading the initrd,
>>> and I still haven't found how to stop that, other than hovering
>>> over it waiting to hit a key. It ought to be something simple....   
>>
>> In openSUSE - check if it is the same in your distro:
>>
>> /etc/default/grub:
>>
>> GRUB_TIMEOUT=8
>>
>> Then run "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg" to apply.
>>
> 
> My grub timeout is on 5 and works as expected.
> 
> In recent months, the *next* screen says 'loading ramdisc' or similar,
> followed by 'press any key' and sits there for ten seconds or so if I
> don't press a key. I haven't found anything anywhere which seems to
> refer to this.

Then it seems like some problem it finds and waits for your intervention.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#8643 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:23:31 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:


> 
> Then it seems like some problem it finds and waits for your
> intervention.
> 

Yes, I now know it is a 'no symbol table' error, though there doesn't
seem to be any trouble.

-- 
Joe

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#8644 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On 2017-01-30 09:38, Joe wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:23:31 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>> Then it seems like some problem it finds and waits for your
>> intervention.
>>
> 
> Yes, I now know it is a 'no symbol table' error, though there doesn't
> seem to be any trouble.

Google finds hits. I looked at one:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1633839

seems to indicate a grub bug.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#8645 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:12:25 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

> On 2017-01-30 09:38, Joe wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:23:31 +0100
> > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
> > 
> >   
> >>
> >> Then it seems like some problem it finds and waits for your
> >> intervention.
> >>  
> > 
> > Yes, I now know it is a 'no symbol table' error, though there
> > doesn't seem to be any trouble.  
> 
> Google finds hits. I looked at one:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1633839
> 
> seems to indicate a grub bug.
> 
> 

Thanks, yes, I found that page and got the impression that some people
had solved it by reinstalling grub, but that had not worked for others.
I'm on LVM for all except /boot, which may be relevant or may not.

It's not really serious enough to mess around with, as everything still
seems to work OK. I have problems, but they are the same ones I had
before this started happening, which could well have been in October.
If it was causing other people problems, it would probably have been
fixed by now.

-- 
Joe

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#8646 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:12:25 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

> On 2017-01-30 09:38, Joe wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:23:31 +0100
> > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
> > 
> >   
> >>
> >> Then it seems like some problem it finds and waits for your
> >> intervention.
> >>  
> > 
> > Yes, I now know it is a 'no symbol table' error, though there
> > doesn't seem to be any trouble.  
> 
> Google finds hits. I looked at one:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1633839
> 
> seems to indicate a grub bug.
> 
I thought I'd heard that expression before:
----------
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=grub+bug&t=midori&ia=web>
...and images:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=grub+bug&t=midori&iax=1&ia=images>
----------

Big smile.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Nice computers don't go down.
	Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
		"The Barsoom Project"

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#8636 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 02:43:05 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

>On 2017-01-28 23:13, Joe wrote:
>> Fast booting would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. Some
>> months ago, to add insult to injury, grub started adding about a
>> ten-second timeout ('Press any key..') before loading the initrd, and I
>> still haven't found how to stop that, other than hovering over it
>> waiting to hit a key. It ought to be something simple.... 
>
>In openSUSE - check if it is the same in your distro:
>
>/etc/default/grub:
>
>GRUB_TIMEOUT=8
>
>Then run "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg" to apply.

	Not just:
update-grub
	???
	How complicated.
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#8641 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

Shadow wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 02:43:05 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
>
>>On 2017-01-28 23:13, Joe wrote:
>>> Fast booting would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. Some
>>> months ago, to add insult to injury, grub started adding about a
>>> ten-second timeout ('Press any key..') before loading the initrd, and I
>>> still haven't found how to stop that, other than hovering over it
>>> waiting to hit a key. It ought to be something simple.... 
>>
>>In openSUSE - check if it is the same in your distro:
>>
>>/etc/default/grub:
>>
>>GRUB_TIMEOUT=8
>>
>>Then run "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg" to apply.
>
> 	Not just:
> update-grub
> 	???
> 	How complicated.
> 	[]'s

It's pretty simple, and not related to systemd. (I use roughly the same
on CentOS.)

-- 
For a light heart lives long.
		-- Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost"

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#8632 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On 2017-01-28, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 18:55:04 -0000 (UTC)
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-01-28, Innocuous <myemail6622@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On 10/04/2016 12:40 PM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:  
>> >>>>>>> Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> writes:  
>> >  
>> >>   Broken by design: systemd
>> >>   http://ewontfix.com/14
>> >>
>> >> 	I think these provide nice summaries on what to expect of
>> >> this specific part of the "modern" GNU/Linux system design.
>> >>  
>> >
>> >
>> > I do not like systemd. I've changed over to using Devuan.
>> > The concept of systemd is wrong in my view.  
>> Not sure the concept is wrong. Fast booting is a good idea. The
>> implimentation has problems.
>
> As was said, parallel booting appeared some time before systemd, in
> sid, at least.
>
> Fast booting would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. Some
> months ago, to add insult to injury, grub started adding about a
> ten-second timeout ('Press any key..') before loading the initrd, and I
> still haven't found how to stop that, other than hovering over it
> waiting to hit a key. It ought to be something simple.... 

Nothing to do with systemd. 
Edit the line in /boot/grub2/
set timeout=
to whatever you want. I have mine at 5 so I can if I wish boot windows.
But make it whatever you want. 

>

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#8634 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 07:00:37 -0000 (UTC)
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2017-01-28, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 18:55:04 -0000 (UTC)
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 2017-01-28, Innocuous <myemail6622@yahoo.com> wrote:  
> >> > On 10/04/2016 12:40 PM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:    
> >> >>>>>>> Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> writes:    
> >> >    
> >> >>   Broken by design: systemd
> >> >>   http://ewontfix.com/14
> >> >>
> >> >> 	I think these provide nice summaries on what to expect
> >> >> of this specific part of the "modern" GNU/Linux system design.
> >> >>    
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I do not like systemd. I've changed over to using Devuan.
> >> > The concept of systemd is wrong in my view.    
> >> Not sure the concept is wrong. Fast booting is a good idea. The
> >> implimentation has problems.  
> >
> > As was said, parallel booting appeared some time before systemd, in
> > sid, at least.
> >
> > Fast booting would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it. Some
> > months ago, to add insult to injury, grub started adding about a
> > ten-second timeout ('Press any key..') before loading the initrd,
> > and I still haven't found how to stop that, other than hovering
> > over it waiting to hit a key. It ought to be something simple....   
> 
> Nothing to do with systemd. 

I wasn't suggesting that it was, just that systemd doesn't
automatically deliver a fast boot, and this phenomenon has slowed it
even more unless I give it a kick.

> Edit the line in /boot/grub2/
> set timeout=
> to whatever you want. I have mine at 5 so I can if I wish boot
> windows. But make it whatever you want. 
> 
> >  

Possibly it is only in sid so far.

My grub timeout is on 5 and works as expected.

In recent months, the *next* screen says 'loading ramdisc' or similar,
followed by 'press any key' and sits there for ten seconds or so if I
don't press a key. I haven't found anything anywhere which seems to
refer to this.

-- 
Joe

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#8637 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On 2017-01-28, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-01-28, Innocuous <myemail6622@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/04/2016 12:40 PM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid> writes:
>>
>>>   Broken by design: systemd http://ewontfix.com/14
>>>
>>> 	I think these provide nice summaries on what to expect of this
>>> 	specific part of the "modern" GNU/Linux system design.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I do not like systemd. I've changed over to using Devuan.  The
>> concept of systemd is wrong in my view.
> Not sure the concept is wrong. Fast booting is a good idea. The
> implimentation has problems.

Systemd does seem to work pretty well.  I had fun when Arch Linux
changed over to it and I had some re-configuring to do on my humble
laptop but it all went well.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the
hardware failure that happened much later; the machine was over ten
years old.

This new machine is the first one I've used that has UEFI (and 'secure
boot') to cope with, as well as being the first one I've installed Arch
Linux on with Systemd from the start.  It isn't a dual boot, I gave
Windows the heave-ho, so that's one complication I could forget.  I
chose to use systemd-boot (formerly gummiboot) on its own.  Setting up
seemed to be a little more logically consistent than the previous init
system - but also rather more complex.  Fortunately Arch Linux has
excellent documentation and guidance.

Booting is certainly quick.  I do get an occasional problem such as the
X server or some part of the graphical stuff failing to run, but I don't
know if that's down to Systemd or to the 'hybrid hard disc' interfering
with the order in which things start.

I'm glad I don't have to run anything bigger than this laptop though.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#8626 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:30:35 -0500, Innocuous wrote:

> I do not like systemd. I've changed over to using Devuan.
> The concept of systemd is wrong in my view.

Can anyone give a comparison between Devuan and MX-16 ?
Both are free of SysD. MX-16 says they have stubs to
handle the details. I hear Devuan is a BIG rewrite
especially of DBus, and has some problems because of it.

Thinking of installing MX-16 as a test.

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#8628 — Re: Systemd fun fun fun

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:06:18 -0600, Chester A. Arthur wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:30:35 -0500, Innocuous wrote:
> 
>> I do not like systemd. I've changed over to using Devuan.
>> The concept of systemd is wrong in my view.
> 
> Can anyone give a comparison between Devuan and MX-16 ? Both are free of
> SysD. MX-16 says they have stubs to handle the details. I hear Devuan is
> a BIG rewrite especially of DBus, and has some problems because of it.
> 
> Thinking of installing MX-16 as a test.

try pclinuxos

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