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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #215646 > unrolled thread

Adobe oddity?

Started bygareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
First post2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
Last post2020-12-29 13:06 -0600
Articles 20 on this page of 577 — 38 participants

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Contents

  Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
    Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 10:42 -0600
      Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 12:50 -0500
        Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 11:16 -0700
          Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-28 18:43 +0000
            Re: Adobe oddity? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 19:34 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 23:48 +0100
              Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-29 02:44 -0500
                Re: Adobe oddity? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-12-29 13:04 +0000
                Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:08 +0000
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-30 20:25 -0500
                Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:08 -0500
                    Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 12:58 -0500
                      Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:22 -0500
                        Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 15:10 -0500
                          Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:07 -0500
                            Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:15 -0500
                              Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:50 +0100
                          Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:48 +0000
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 17:05 +0000
                    car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-29 17:43 +0000
                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:00 -0500
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-29 20:05 +0000
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:01 -0500
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:24 -0500
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 23:36 +0000
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:58 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:45 +0000
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:38 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 13:28 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 06:02 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 08:50 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:14 -0500
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:40 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:43 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:15 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:43 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:56 -0500
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:17 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 18:16 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:46 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:54 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:09 -0600
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:46 -0600
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Leo <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-01-06 17:38 -0800
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-07 16:32 +0000
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:24 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-02 20:25 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 21:40 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 03:14 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:11 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:49 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:52 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:48 -0600
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:12 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:13 +0000
                                                      Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:21 -0500
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 19:22 +0000
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 00:01 +0000
                                                      Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:28 -0500
                                                          Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 19:55 +0000
                                                            Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 21:11 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:51 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:29 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 14:48 -0600
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-04 21:22 +0000
                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 22:47 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:07 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:26 -0500
                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:15 +0000
                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:15 -0500
                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:04 +0000
                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-09 01:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 12:54 -0600
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-10 09:36 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0600
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:46 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-07 12:02 -0700
                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 17:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 19:19 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:02 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:22 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:24 -0500
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2021-01-10 06:31 -0600
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-10 13:25 -0600
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:20 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:38 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:51 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-11 15:46 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:30 -0600
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-10 19:45 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:27 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 10:18 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 18:23 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:31 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 20:39 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 21:04 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 22:04 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:13 -0500
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:31 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:31 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:41 -0500
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:59 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-12 12:06 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:42 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:31 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:06 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:47 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:45 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-12 03:32 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:57 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:36 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:29 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-14 09:47 -0600
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:36 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-14 19:53 +0000
                                                                                        Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-14 21:23 +0000
                                                                                          Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 18:58 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:10 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 12:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-12 23:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:49 -0500
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Alfred Falk <aefalk@telus.net> - 2021-01-15 16:21 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:30 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-14 21:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 11:52 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:13 -0600
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-15 19:40 +0000
                                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:18 -0500
                                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 23:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:03 +0000
                                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:59 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-12 21:36 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-13 20:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-13 22:11 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-10 18:26 -0400
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-10 20:00 -0500
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:35 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:19 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:21 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:35 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-16 20:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-17 11:49 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-17 17:59 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-17 21:43 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-19 11:32 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 21:35 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:17 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:58 -0500
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-12 19:52 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 16:27 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:48 -0500
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 23:00 -0500
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:57 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 19:46 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:27 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:07 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:29 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:40 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:45 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 16:51 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 23:26 +0000
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:50 -0500
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:41 +0000
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 15:48 -0600
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:13 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:35 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 20:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:19 -0600
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:40 +0000
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:25 -0500
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 12:51 -0600
                                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 21:00 +0000
                                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:24 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:21 -0600
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:52 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 22:14 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:36 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-09 13:31 +0000
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:13 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:21 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:13 -0500
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:28 +0000
                                                          Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-07 12:24 +0000
                                                            Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 12:40 +0000
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:38 +0000
                                                                Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2021-01-09 02:56 +0000
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 22:02 -0500
                                                                    Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
                                                                      Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-11 15:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:16 +0000
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:56 +0000
                                                            Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 11:46 -0500
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:32 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 14:06 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:51 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:43 -0500
                                                    Re: dim bulbs, not car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:35 +0000
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:16 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:55 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 15:55 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 02:25 -0400
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:31 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-06 17:04 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-07 21:32 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:37 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:59 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:24 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:37 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 23:05 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-08 20:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 16:01 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 17:09 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:34 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-08 20:41 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:19 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:45 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:42 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:09 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:30 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-03 21:35 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-03 22:13 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 20:07 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:41 -0600
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 20:47 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 17:37 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-01 19:24 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 00:36 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:24 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 03:55 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 23:29 -0500
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:53 +0100
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:06 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:38 +0100
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:02 +0200
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:22 -0500
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 02:12 +0200
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-31 01:34 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-12-31 11:53 +0000
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 10:13 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:20 +0200
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:23 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:42 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:26 +0200
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:39 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:29 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:35 +0200
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:35 -0600
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:59 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 15:23 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:05 -0500
                                              Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:26 +0000
                                                Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 23:12 -0500
                                                  Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-01 04:41 +0000
                                                Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                                  Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 15:17 -0600
                                                    Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:46 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-01 13:29 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 08:54 -0500
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-05 17:35 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 11:38 -0600
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:26 -0600
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:38 +0200
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-02 23:25 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:12 -0600
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:34 -0600
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:47 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 14:03 -0600
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:16 +0000
                                          Re: polish enigmas, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:33 +0000
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:32 -0600
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-01 19:22 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 11:26 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 09:44 -0600
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 16:50 +0000
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-01-02 19:00 +0000
                                              Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:13 +0000
                                                Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:53 -0500
                                              Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-03 19:44 +0000
                                                Re: Enigma and early computers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 16:03 -0600
                                                  Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-04 01:06 +0000
                                                Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:46 +0000
                                                  Re: memories of Enigma and early computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-04 10:07 +0000
                                                    Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
                                                Re: Enigma and early computers Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-04 21:07 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:36 +0200
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-03 11:50 +0000
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:08 +0000
                          Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-29 21:35 +0000
                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-29 22:51 +0100
                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:56 +0100
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 13:12 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:41 +0100
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 18:15 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-30 13:58 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 15:10 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 15:42 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 16:21 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:13 +0000
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:43 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 19:00 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:11 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:08 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:54 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:55 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-31 12:50 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:50 -0500
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-01 21:44 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:22 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:48 -0500
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:59 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:03 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 17:58 +0000
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:25 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 14:54 -0700
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:15 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:58 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:13 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:27 -0600
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:40 -0500
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-01 11:05 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:19 +0200
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:44 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:06 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 15:13 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:29 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:14 -0600
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:34 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:42 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:07 +0100
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:44 +0100
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-31 21:35 +0100
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 16:08 -0500
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:16 +0100
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:25 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:27 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:00 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:20 -0600
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-31 19:03 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:38 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:30 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:06 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0200
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:46 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:56 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:37 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 13:12 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:09 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 18:41 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:29 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:11 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 18:01 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 15:11 -0500
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 20:38 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 16:45 -0500
                                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 22:28 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:33 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:26 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:08 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 02:50 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:13 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:12 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:27 -0600
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 22:57 +0100
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:27 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-30 18:33 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 14:19 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-03 21:27 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 19:57 -0500
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 03:00 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-04 13:58 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:00 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:35 -0500
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:46 -0500
                                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:11 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 20:00 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-01-04 22:15 +0100
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 03:10 -0400
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:57 -0600
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-05 11:59 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:48 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 10:44 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 07:23 -0500
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-12-30 16:46 -0400
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:16 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:45 +0100
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 14:51 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:14 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 01:54 +0200
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:24 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:17 +0200
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 15:55 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 16:29 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 17:08 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 19:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 20:05 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 03:20 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 03:25 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:51 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 16:33 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:46 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:44 -0500
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:55 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:23 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-31 21:43 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:04 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:39 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:31 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:41 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-07 09:18 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:44 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-01-01 15:35 +0200
                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:30 -0500
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 14:18 -0700
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:26 -0500
                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 18:18 +0000
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:59 -0500
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:50 +0000
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:52 +0000
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 06:48 +0000
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:16 -0500
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:54 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:18 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:25 +0100
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:54 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:08 +0100
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 23:01 +0000
                Re: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-29 19:28 -0600
        Re: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 19:37 +0000
        Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 15:00 -0500
          Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:53 -0700
            Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 19:00 -0500
            Re: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-12-29 09:40 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 15:01 +0200
                Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:10 -0500
                    Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 18:11 +0200
            Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:18 +0000
            Re: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:16 -0600
        Re: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-28 21:43 +0000
          Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-28 22:18 +0000
            Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-28 22:30 +0000
    Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 20:24 +0100
      Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:52 -0700
        Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600

Page 11 of 29 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 29  Next page →


#216363 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-01-15 21:35 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20210115213536.fb2c60b81edfdeb80e251b64@eircom.net>
In reply to#216359
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 13:19:16 -0600
JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:

> My mother received an encyclopedia set for Christmas before WW2. It
> stated, with scientific accuracy, that humanity would never get to the
> Earth's moon because taking the speed of a locomotive, it would take
> too long to get there. Not making it worth while for a trip. She said
> 60 miles per hour was on the chart.

	But that's only a bit less than six months, it's laying the rails
and stocking the waystations that's the real problem.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#216343 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rtqi000pqs@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#216295
On 2021-01-13, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:15:35 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Nerd that I am, every once in a while, while driving, I wonder what someone
>> from a prior century would have made of it. Not that they probably couldn’t
>> soon become proficient, but their early reactions would be something to
>> see.
>
> In the early 1800s the notion of high speed (50 mph) trains was
> considered to be ludicrous because a human could not survive at that
> speed.

Such attitudes survive to this day.  The IOC declared that there would be
no women's ski-jumping event in the 2010 Winter Olympics because it would
make their uterus explode.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216253 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2021-01-11 22:17 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rtiipt$4tt$3@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#216217
In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>self-shifting car.

Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#216261 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-11 18:58 -0500
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<gfppvf9s878i30369j5dncio3qtbla5b6q@4ax.com>
In reply to#216253
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
<johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>self-shifting car.
>
>Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.

Google "preselector gearbox".

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#216271 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-12 19:52 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rtkulb32ps1@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#216261
On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>> self-shifting car.
>>
>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.

That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.

> Google "preselector gearbox".

Hmmm, interesting...  (BTW DuckDuckGo finds it too.)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216272 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-12 16:27 -0500
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<dv4svfh7p0749b9010gu6kil764ak007c2@4ax.com>
In reply to#216271
On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>
>That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.

Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
"Microsoft Stync".

>> Google "preselector gearbox".
>
>Hmmm, interesting...  (BTW DuckDuckGo finds it too.)

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#216287 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<1341465767.632261310.343948.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#216272
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>> 
>> That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.
> 
> Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
> something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
> "Microsoft Stync".
> 

This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
road?

-- 
Pete

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#216296 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-13 16:46 -0500
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<p9quvf9v1jcjt8ukqvnicmq96hchi6cll4@4ax.com>
In reply to#216287
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:15:38 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>>> 
>>> That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.
>> 
>> Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
>> something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
>> "Microsoft Stync".
>> 
>
>This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
>idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
>to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
>buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
>road?

Amen. That's one of my objections to Teslas.  One of the car
manufacturers (I want to say SAAB but can't find any evidence to that
effect) was careful to make every control different from the others so
that it was difficult to mistake one for another.

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#216341 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rtqi012pqs@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#216296
On 2021-01-13, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:15:38 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
>> idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
>> to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
>> buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
>> road?
>
> Amen. That's one of my objections to Teslas.  One of the car
> manufacturers (I want to say SAAB but can't find any evidence to that
> effect) was careful to make every control different from the others so
> that it was difficult to mistake one for another.

Donald A. Norman, in _The Design of Everyday Things_, illustrated this
point with workers in a nuclear plant who put various beer keg handles
on control levers so they could easily distinguish them by feel.

The aviation industry learned decades ago that it's a good idea
for various controls to feel different.  It's embarrassing to go
to retract your flaps after landing and pull the gear lever instead.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216297 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromRadey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net>
Date2021-01-13 16:48 -0500
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<8735z4wlsg.fsf@mothra.home>
In reply to#216287
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>>> 
>>> That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.
>> 
>> Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
>> something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
>> "Microsoft Stync".
>> 
>
> This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
> idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
> to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
> buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
> road?

That's just "value engineering" -- buttons are expensive in material and
dashboard real estate.

I do really hate the touch screen interface for driving.

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#216303 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-13 23:00 -0500
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<kdgvvfpm02vs2j6ds5j72n8gr234241rv0@4ax.com>
In reply to#216297
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 16:48:31 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>>>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>>>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>>>> 
>>>> That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.
>>> 
>>> Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
>>> something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
>>> "Microsoft Stync".
>>> 
>>
>> This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
>> idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
>> to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
>> buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
>> road?
>
>That's just "value engineering" -- buttons are expensive in material and
>dashboard real estate.
>
>I do really hate the touch screen interface for driving.

That's the good thing about Microsoft Stync.  It's so lousy that there
is no temptation whatsoever to use it.

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#216342 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rtqi001pqs@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#216303
On 2021-01-14, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 16:48:31 -0500, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I do really hate the touch screen interface for driving.
>
> That's the good thing about Microsoft Stync.  It's so lousy that there
> is no temptation whatsoever to use it.

    Microsoft is not a necessary evil.  Microsoft is not necessary.
      -- Ted Nelson, paraphrased (he was talking about IBM)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216337 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromusenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Date2021-01-14 21:57 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<6000be20.9657056@news.dslextreme.com>
In reply to#216287
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:15:38 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12 Jan 2021 19:52:11 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2021-01-11, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:17:33 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <uo8nvftsoa1vdit7uqrpmof0824r1rie2l@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We'll get to the self-driving car the same way we got to the
>>>>>> self-shifting car.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't recall a generation of cars that had
>>>>> transmissions that shifted on their own 80% of the time but sometimes
>>>>> disengaged so you had to step on the clutch and shift manually.
>>> 
>>> That's because Microsoft doesn't make cars.
>> 
>> Uh, I own a Ford which owes a good bit of its functionality to
>> something commonly referred to by owners of Fords of that vintage as
>> "Microsoft Stync".
>> 
>
>This, of course, brings up another point: What genius decided it was a good
>idea to put so many controls into a touch-screen, that requires the driver
>to take his eyes off the road to operate them, as opposed to physical
>buttons and dials that can be operated by touch while still watching the
>road?

That highlights one of many ways cars could be made safer now, without investing
billions of dollars in an unproven, expensive technology.

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#216041 — Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromusenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Date2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
SubjectRe: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<5ff4ac80.6103286@news.dslextreme.com>
In reply to#215978
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 22:47:26 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>In article <5ff386e0.8825860@news.dslextreme.com>,
>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>I've seen mentions in articles that human drivers sometimes have problems with
>>autonomous vehicles because the latter rigorously follow all the rules while
>>human drivers don't. ...
>
>That appears to be an urban legend. Of course I can't find it now but
>I read a bit on the Waymo blog about how they were making their cars
>act in ways that would avoid surprising human drivers. I think an
>example is that if everyone on the highway is going 10 mph over the
>speed limit, it is a lot safer to go the same speed as everyone else.

Oh, the Waymo blog -- that will certainly be an unbiased source of information.
The article I read actually cited Waymo, saying they reported a couple of
low-speed collisions with other cars, and judged them to be the fault of the
human drivers who didn't anticipate the self-driving car would strictly follow
the rules.  The article goes on to suggest people will have to watch out for
self-driving vehicles.  (Unfortunately, this was before I started clipping and
saving this stuff.)

That the Waymo engineers are making the change mentioned above means they
recognize this is a problem, so it's a fact, not an urban legend.  Although
there are far more ways than speed limits that human drivers bend or break the
regulations.

I do have this:

>>>>>>>
AAA Via Magazine, Fall 2019

Teaching kids about driverless vehicles

[excerpt]

"AAA is partnering with Google offshoot Waymo, the National Safety Council, and
other organizations in Let's Talk Self-Driving, a campaign to teach the public
about AVs.  The goal is to increase awareness of how these vehicles work and
what they can and can't do.

"As part of that initiative, AAA is adding a new activity to its School Safety
Lesson Plan to teach cihldren in grades four through six about self-driving
vehicles, how they differ from the human-driven kind, and how to stay safe
around them."

<<<<<<<

>I'm certainly not saying that self-driving is anywhere close to a
>solved problem, but this is not part of the problem.

It certainly is.  Every driver is constantly making judgements about what the
other road users are going to do, even if they're not doing so consciously.  If
self-driving vehicles are on the road with me, I need to anticipate how they
will drive and what actions they are likely to take.

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#215985 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<1467741654.631496466.964063.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#215971
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 15:51:53 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>>>> You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>>> 
>>> That kind of self-driving car is a pipe dream.  We won't see them in our life
>>> time.  Barring radical changes across the entire transportation infrastructure,
>>> self-driving vehicles will only be viable in limited, closed environments.
>> 
>> Time will tell.
>> 
>> Leaving a parking space, probably in the wee hours for a charging
>> station and returning could be a special case.  Maybe a single
>> station at the end of the block and nothing but EVs in a long parked
>> line?
>> 
>> I know it's a hard problem.
> 
> I would think that anyone who has lived and driven a couple of winters in "snow
> country" would be extremely skeptical that a future with these imagined
> self-driving vehicles will be occuring any time soon.  I note that most test
> programs are located in largely dry, sunny climates.
> 
> But beyond the enormous technical challanges are systemic problems that are
> outside of that realm and which are, not surprisingly, being ignored by the
> techies.  To wit, driving is a social activity.  The next time you're on the
> street, whether driving a car, riding a bike, or just walking, notice how many
> times you make a judgement about the intent and future actions of another
> road user.  It largely occurs without verbal communication, but social
> interaction is taking place between drivers, bikers, pedestrians, etc.  Already
> I've seen mentions in articles that human drivers sometimes have problems with
> autonomous vehicles because the latter rigorously follow all the rules while
> human drivers don't.  The explicit suggestion is made that humans will have to
> adapt to self-driving cars, not the other way around.  So much for fitting in
> seemlessly.  This is why I think that any effective deployment of autonomous
> vehicles will require the elimination of human drivers.
> 
> Anyone who is paying attention (and/or reads the RISKs Digest) should be aware
> of the near constant parade of breakdowns and failures of computerised systems
> across nearly every application.  How anyone can advocate for letting millions
> of computer-controlled 2000-pound autonomous wheeled robots loose onto public
> streets is beyond me.  It is a fantasy that completely ignores malfunctions and
> bad actors.
> 
> 

We already allow lots of tired, distracted, or drunk humans to drive those
2000 lb. vehicles. I can’t see that robots would be worse. Here we seem to
have a crash every few days involving wrong-way drivers on the interstates.
At least robots would minimize that, although someone will have to program
them to deal with the crazy humans.

-- 
Pete

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#216039 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromusenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Date2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<5ff4ac4a.6049198@news.dslextreme.com>
In reply to#215985
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:54:03 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 15:51:53 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>>>>>You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>>>>
>>>>That kind of self-driving car is a pipe dream.  We won't see them in our life
>>>>time.  Barring radical changes across the entire transportation infrastructure,
>>>>self-driving vehicles will only be viable in limited, closed environments.
>>>
>>>Time will tell.
>>>
>>>Leaving a parking space, probably in the wee hours for a charging
>>>station and returning could be a special case.  Maybe a single
>>>station at the end of the block and nothing but EVs in a long parked
>>>line?
>>>
>>>I know it's a hard problem.
>>
>>I would think that anyone who has lived and driven a couple of winters in "snow
>>country" would be extremely skeptical that a future with these imagined
>>self-driving vehicles will be occuring any time soon.  I note that most test
>> programs are located in largely dry, sunny climates.
>>
>>But beyond the enormous technical challanges are systemic problems that are
>>outside of that realm and which are, not surprisingly, being ignored by the
>>techies.  To wit, driving is a social activity.  The next time you're on the
>>street, whether driving a car, riding a bike, or just walking, notice how many
>>times you make a judgement about the intent and future actions of another
>>road user.  It largely occurs without verbal communication, but social
>>interaction is taking place between drivers, bikers, pedestrians, etc.  Already
>>I've seen mentions in articles that human drivers sometimes have problems with
>>autonomous vehicles because the latter rigorously follow all the rules while
>>human drivers don't.  The explicit suggestion is made that humans will have to
>>adapt to self-driving cars, not the other way around.  So much for fitting in
>>seemlessly.  This is why I think that any effective deployment of autonomous
>>vehicles will require the elimination of human drivers.
>>
>>Anyone who is paying attention (and/or reads the RISKs Digest) should be aware
>>of the near constant parade of breakdowns and failures of computerised systems
>>across nearly every application.  How anyone can advocate for letting millions
>>of computer-controlled 2000-pound autonomous wheeled robots loose onto public
>>streets is beyond me.  It is a fantasy that completely ignores malfunctions and
>>bad actors.
>>
>We already allow lots of tired, distracted, or drunk humans to drive those
>2000 lb. vehicles. I can't see that robots would be worse. Here we seem to
>have a crash every few days involving wrong-way drivers on the interstates.
>At least robots would minimize that, although someone will have to program
>them to deal with the crazy humans.

That's not a counter-argument, that's just wishful thinking.  One person has
been killed already by a self-driving car.  There's no substantial evidence they
will be safer than human drivers.  Self-driving technology doesn't eliminate
human error, it just moves it somewhere else.  There are a myriad of examples
of computer-based systems that breakdown, malfunction, get hacked, etc.
There's no reason to expect it will be any different with self-driving vehicles.

There are lots ways cars and driving could be made safer today, and they don't
to need to spend billions of dollars on an unproven technology that will
ultimately require radical changes to our transportation infrastructure.
I don't see the people who make the "self-driving cars will be safer" argument
advocating for any of the obvious measures.

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#215923 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<366442471.631418282.431362.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#215885
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>> You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
> 
> That kind of self-driving car is a pipe dream.  We won't see them in our life
> time.  Barring radical changes across the entire transportation infrastructure,
> self-driving vehicles will only be viable in limited, closed environments.
> 

My thought, though, is that self-driving cars don’t have yo be perfect,
they just have to be at least as good as human drivers. Seeing the way most
people drive, I’d say that’s not a hard job.

-- 
Pete

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#216040 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromusenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Date2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<5ff4ac73.6089786@news.dslextreme.com>
In reply to#215923
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:34:18 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>>>You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>>
>>That kind of self-driving car is a pipe dream.  We won't see them in our life
>>time.  Barring radical changes across the entire transportation infrastructure,
>>self-driving vehicles will only be viable in limited, closed environments.
>
>My thought, though, is that self-driving cars don't have to be perfect,
>they just have to be at least as good as human drivers. Seeing the way most
>people drive, I'd say that's not a hard job.

That's a very weak justification.  You're saying that it's okay for self-driving
cars to kill and maim people in accidents, as long as it can be statistically
shown that they do so less frequently than humans.  Would you care to explain
that argument to someone who just lost a loved one in an accident with a
self-driving vehicle?

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#216046 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-01-05 19:46 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20210105194639.a84f2ea3410026c5b6b8fce6@eircom.net>
In reply to#216040
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 18:14:20 GMT
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

> That's a very weak justification.  You're saying that it's okay for
> self-driving cars to kill and maim people in accidents, as long as it can
> be statistically shown that they do so less frequently than humans.

	Yes because at that point they save lives.

> Would you care to explain that argument to someone who just lost a loved
> one in an accident with a self-driving vehicle?

	It's a very strong justification, car drivers kill and maim a lot
of people every year. Once self driving vehicles kill and maim substantially
fewer people per mile driven there is little justification for permitting
people to drive.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#216111 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromusenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Date2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<5ff666b0.3682615@news.dslextreme.com>
In reply to#216046
On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:46:39 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 18:14:20 GMT
>usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>That's a very weak justification.  You're saying that it's okay for
>>self-driving cars to kill and maim people in accidents, as long as it can
>>be statistically shown that they do so less frequently than humans.
>
>	Yes because at that point they save lives.
>
>>Would you care to explain that argument to someone who just lost a loved
>>one in an accident with a self-driving vehicle?
>
>	It's a very strong justification, car drivers kill and maim a lot
>of people every year. Once self driving vehicles kill and maim substantially
>fewer people per mile driven there is little justification for permitting
>people to drive.

That's a very radical position that doesn't comport with our responses to other
more deadly threats to life.

In the U.S., many tens of thousands of people die every year -- more than twice
the number of traffic fatalities -- due to consumption of cigarettes.  Similarly
for alcohol.  Yet neither of them are illegal.  You can work out the many
contradictions for yourself.

I don't expect consistancy from the body politic, but this "self-driving cars
will be safer" is just another argument from fantasy.  It's a variant of the
"but what about the chi-l-l-l-dren" lament.  See also "if just one life can be
saved (no matter the cost)."

I don't hold the participants in this group responsible for the statements of
self-driving car proponents.  Consequently, I don't expect an answer to one of
my many questions.  If the primary motivation for autonomous vehicles is traffic
safety and saving lives, then why aren't these people actively advocating for
the many things that can literally be done today without spending billions of
dollars trying to develop an expensive, unproven technology that will require
radical changes to our transportation infrastructure?  For example, if one is
worried about drunk driving, then lobby for stricter laws like has been done in
Norway.

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