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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #210335 > unrolled thread
| Started by | robin.vowels@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-03-08 16:07 -0700 |
| Last post | 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 590 — 35 participants |
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Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-08 16:50 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 13:19 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-09 12:16 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 16:35 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 19:41 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-10 12:29 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 19:02 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:46 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:07 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:10 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 01:06 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:33 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 18:48 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 12:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 22:46 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:18 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-11 19:49 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 13:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:42 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-12 22:11 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 23:49 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-03-13 08:36 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-11 22:17 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 16:47 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:40 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:32 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 18:17 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:03 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-12 15:29 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-12 19:38 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:18 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-03-13 18:07 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-13 11:43 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:31 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 01:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360-30 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-13 00:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360-30 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-13 00:26 +0000
Re: IBM system/360-30 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:38 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 21:38 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 12:11 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:11 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:13 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:54 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 12:04 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 10:31 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
Re: IBM 1130, system John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-12 23:51 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:29 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:35 -0400
RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-24 23:03 +0000
Re: RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 07:26 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:12 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 11:29 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:51 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:01 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:39 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:15 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:24 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:50 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:34 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:53 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 23:14 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:28 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 11:13 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:01 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 11:31 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 10:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 13:26 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:23 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 14:35 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 12:08 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 15:13 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:33 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:47 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 11:10 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 08:15 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 14:51 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 16:20 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:24 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 16:46 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-26 19:52 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:00 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-08-27 14:11 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:21 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:38 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-27 11:39 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 13:38 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 12:03 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:11 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 21:17 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-26 12:13 -0500
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:27 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 17:21 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:37 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-26 04:07 -0500
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:02 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:29 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 20:20 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:45 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:31 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:54 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:33 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:44 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:31 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 19:16 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:55 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:43 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:52 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:02 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:27 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 13:13 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-23 07:37 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-23 01:00 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:43 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 12:22 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-23 20:49 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:05 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:25 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:18 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:08 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 03:46 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:09 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:44 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:29 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 19:37 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 21:52 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:44 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-26 12:21 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 15:15 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:42 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-27 09:43 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:43 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 22:27 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:38 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 18:09 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-26 00:12 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 20:35 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 11:18 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:40 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:26 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:26 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:44 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:56 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 09:41 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:43 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:28 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:52 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:16 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-25 12:56 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:40 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:58 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:48 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:26 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 19:07 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 06:55 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:23 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 14:33 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 23:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:39 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:13 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 20:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:18 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:34 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:49 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-26 22:28 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:49 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:27 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:49 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 19:39 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:42 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:21 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:36 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:13 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-01 19:17 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:22 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-02 08:42 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-03 05:37 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 02:22 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 09:48 +0000
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 17:55 +0000
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 19:31 +0100
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:13 +0000
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:24 -0700
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:30 +0000
Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:08 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:21 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:00 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 05:51 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 06:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:08 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:13 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:16 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:10 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 05:07 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:38 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:16 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:07 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:06 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0600
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 19:20 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 16:06 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 19:12 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 11:59 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:11 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 14:05 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-02 16:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:35 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 23:59 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 13:39 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> - 2020-09-03 18:31 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:45 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:26 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 20:49 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:37 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:27 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 07:05 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-09-03 12:29 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:26 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:11 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Richard Thiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2020-09-03 14:20 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 19:57 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:38 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 19:04 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:00 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 10:55 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 14:02 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:45 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:11 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 17:45 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:10 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:22 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 09:53 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:19 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:52 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:04 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 07:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 09:15 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-03 13:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:04 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 05:48 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:07 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 14:56 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:07 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 19:49 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:12 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 20:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:53 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 21:23 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-05 12:22 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:41 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:00 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 18:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:41 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:10 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:04 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-08 23:35 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-09 13:17 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:34 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:37 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:56 -0400
Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-05 19:02 +0000
Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:23 -0400
Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:37 -0400
Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:57 -0400
Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 17:09 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:05 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:32 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:08 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 00:05 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:48 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 07:20 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:09 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:00 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:45 -0500
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:53 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:37 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:22 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 16:02 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 19:43 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:13 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:47 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 12:21 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 21:45 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:01 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:16 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-02 16:14 +0200
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 07:20 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:36 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:19 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:25 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 14:43 +0100
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:40 -0400
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:08 +0000
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 06:12 +0000
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:36 +0000
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:54 +0000
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 22:18 +0000
Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 06:27 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 16:48 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 23:53 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 20:33 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 02:46 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 23:08 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 19:30 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:00 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:27 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 21:01 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 22:51 +0000
Re: IBM system/360/20, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 01:24 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:28 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:19 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 19:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:47 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 14:16 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 03:32 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 19:41 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 08:58 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 17:27 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 01:06 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 20:26 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 20:34 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 21:21 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 16:34 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:13 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 06:34 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-01 16:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:07 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 19:38 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:08 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:41 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:22 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:49 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:23 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:21 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 09:41 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:24 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 15:07 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 22:21 -0400
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 07:20 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 00:56 +0000
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:46 -0700
Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:15 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:59 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 21:47 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 02:40 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 00:04 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:24 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-27 15:55 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 11:14 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:30 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-27 23:24 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:38 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:44 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 10:59 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 10:15 -0700
Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:05 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 19:37 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:05 -0400
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:30 +0000
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:40 +0000
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:03 -0400
Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 14:01 +0000
Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:33 +0000
Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-30 11:09 +0000
Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:18 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:58 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-31 17:17 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 19:58 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 09:39 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 04:10 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 08:19 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-01 18:08 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:04 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:13 -0700
Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:14 +0000
Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:52 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:34 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 00:06 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:05 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 22:32 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:51 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 23:52 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:58 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:18 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:28 -0400
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 15:50 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-31 17:24 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:19 -0700
Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:23 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2020-08-28 18:58 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:23 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:21 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:05 +0000
Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:39 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:18 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 21:39 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-08-30 11:51 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:06 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:36 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 10:43 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 11:49 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:10 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:33 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 15:03 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-30 16:37 +0000
Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 16:55 +0000
Re: Home made card reader J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:20 -0400
Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 17:23 +0000
Re: Home made card reader Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 16:38 -0700
Re: Home made card reader John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 00:27 +0000
Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-31 09:34 +0000
Re: Home made card reader usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
Re: Home made card reader Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-02 08:27 +0000
Re: Home made card reader Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:04 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:19 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-31 07:23 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 20:34 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:37 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:40 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:31 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:06 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:40 +0000
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:06 -0400
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:41 +0000
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:28 -0400
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 18:10 +0000
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:25 -0400
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:26 +0000
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:03 -0400
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:03 -0700
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-04 23:34 -0700
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:02 -0400
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:32 +0000
Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-04 18:11 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-29 01:04 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:14 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:35 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 12:13 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-28 07:00 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:17 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:24 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:04 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:07 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:20 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:28 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-29 12:31 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-29 23:58 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:10 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 05:21 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
Re: flaming, not at all KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:35 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:15 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:45 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 20:28 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:11 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 14:28 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 19:39 +0100
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:59 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:25 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:28 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:28 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:40 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 18:56 -0400
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:39 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:34 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:44 -0700
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:36 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:11 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:25 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:32 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:36 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 05:10 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:20 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:31 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:42 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Stoat <fake@fake.org> - 2020-08-28 15:49 +1200
Re: IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:06 +0100
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:03 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:27 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 14:47 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-03-11 15:05 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-11 16:33 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 14:57 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 19:59 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 17:27 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 20:57 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:15 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-10 18:06 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:32 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:52 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:27 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-14 13:40 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-14 09:01 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 12:36 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-15 21:58 +0000
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 12:57 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 17:39 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 15:29 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:33 -0400
Re: IBM system/360 ad Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-03-11 21:23 -0500
Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 20:50 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 09:34 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:55 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:05 -0700
Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <781688160.613665246.322502.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #211880 |
<antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes: >> >>> On Monday, March 9, 2020 at 2:35:13 PM UTC-6, Dan Espen wrote: >>> >>>> A 30 with 8K? What good would that be? A minimum DOS Sysgen would use >>>> ALL of that, more likely it would gen at around 10-12K. >>> >>> So use BOS instead. >> >> Any idea on the run time storage use? >> I can't really recall. >> >> Once you got the disk/tape access stuff into memory I don't think >> anything would be left in 8K. Certainly COBOL would be out of the question. > > 1965 text says assembler, linker and RPG in 8K memory. > For Cobol, Fortran and PL/I minimal requirement was 16K memory. > > I am not sure if they were able to deliver. OTOH IMO it was > possible. Once you have disk one can swap out almost everthing > at acceptable cost. Basicaly, only few interrput handlers, descriptors > for devices, table of disc addreses of services and loader must be > resident. I would think that by limiting services and using > simplified descriptors one could get resident part to 1-2K. > OTOH IBM tried to have compatible operating systems. If you > insist of control block with the same format as in bigger machines > and on extra features, then bloat is unavoidable... > 1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in minimal core and swap everything from disk. -- Pete
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-12 23:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: IBM 1130, system |
| Message-ID | <rc14ea$erm$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #211901 |
In article <781688160.613665246.322502.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core >requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in >minimal core and swap everything from disk. It ran on a minimal 1130, 4K words or the equivalent of 8K bytes. It was not, even by the standards of the time, fast. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-22 11:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b5542e1c-8f03-4397-8c9b-6b03bd56c19eo@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #211901 |
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 10:49:42 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote: > 1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core > requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in > minimal core and swap everything from disk. Many 1401 programmers told me COBOL and FORTRAN were simply too big effectively to run on any 1401, even a 16k machine. That is, you could run them, but they'd require multiple passes and be very cumbersome. Not sure how popular 1401 RPG was, but it seemed almost everyone used Autocoder or SPS on their 1401. Now, for the 1410, which allowed more memory and was faster machine, I don't know. But I don't believe COBOL was very popular in those days anyway. I believe people who wanted to use Fortran used a 1620, not a 1401.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rhseqb11kva@news4.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #213019 |
On 2020-08-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 10:49:42 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote: > >> 1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core >> requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in >> minimal core and swap everything from disk. > > Many 1401 programmers told me COBOL and FORTRAN were simply > too big effectively to run on any 1401, even a 16k machine. > That is, you could run them, but they'd require multiple > passes and be very cumbersome. Not sure how popular > 1401 RPG was, but it seemed almost everyone used Autocoder > or SPS on their 1401. > > Now, for the 1410, which allowed more memory and was > faster machine, I don't know. But I don't believe > COBOL was very popular in those days anyway. > > I believe people who wanted to use Fortran used > a 1620, not a 1401. In the Univac shops where I worked, we wrote programs in RPG if practical, or assembly language otherwise. There was a COBOL compiler, but rumour has it that it only existed to satisfy a requirement for a government contract. I played with it and found that it was not useful for practical purposes. I'm not sure about a Fortran compiler; the business applications we wrote were not suited to that language. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult. X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy. / \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| From | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-24 13:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0164927c-49b5-4d49-9e2e-8584b63eccd7o@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #213024 |
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 8:56:24 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2020-08-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 10:49:42 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote: > > > >> 1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core > >> requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in > >> minimal core and swap everything from disk. > > > > Many 1401 programmers told me COBOL and FORTRAN were simply > > too big effectively to run on any 1401, even a 16k machine. > > That is, you could run them, but they'd require multiple > > passes and be very cumbersome. Not sure how popular > > 1401 RPG was, but it seemed almost everyone used Autocoder > > or SPS on their 1401. > > > > Now, for the 1410, which allowed more memory and was > > faster machine, I don't know. But I don't believe > > COBOL was very popular in those days anyway. > > > > I believe people who wanted to use Fortran used > > a 1620, not a 1401. > > In the Univac shops where I worked, we wrote programs in RPG > if practical, or assembly language otherwise. There was a > COBOL compiler, but rumour has it that it only existed to > satisfy a requirement for a government contract. I played > with it and found that it was not useful for practical purposes. > I'm not sure about a Fortran compiler; the business applications > we wrote were not suited to that language. We upgraded a Univac 9xxx machine to a 90/30 and had many RPG programs. RPG was written for the 1401 intended as a way for tab operators to transition from plugboards to programming. How effective it was in practice I don't know. RPG exploded when IBM upgraded it for the System/3 and its successors. I think the modern RPG is very different than the original. The original had a built-in 'cycle' that was basically abandoned in later versions. RPG was available for S/360, I think it was the same version as for the 1401. Again, I don't know how widely it was used. Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing game or rocket propelled grenade.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-24 17:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri1brc$ni5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213052 |
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 8:56:24 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2020-08-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: >> >> > On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 10:49:42 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote: >> > >> >> 1401 COBOL claims to run on a 4K machine. I was trying to find the core >> >> requirements for the 1130:Disk Monitor II, but it was designed to run in >> >> minimal core and swap everything from disk. >> > >> > Many 1401 programmers told me COBOL and FORTRAN were simply >> > too big effectively to run on any 1401, even a 16k machine. >> > That is, you could run them, but they'd require multiple >> > passes and be very cumbersome. Not sure how popular >> > 1401 RPG was, but it seemed almost everyone used Autocoder >> > or SPS on their 1401. >> > >> > Now, for the 1410, which allowed more memory and was >> > faster machine, I don't know. But I don't believe >> > COBOL was very popular in those days anyway. >> > >> > I believe people who wanted to use Fortran used >> > a 1620, not a 1401. >> >> In the Univac shops where I worked, we wrote programs in RPG >> if practical, or assembly language otherwise. There was a >> COBOL compiler, but rumour has it that it only existed to >> satisfy a requirement for a government contract. I played >> with it and found that it was not useful for practical purposes. >> I'm not sure about a Fortran compiler; the business applications >> we wrote were not suited to that language. > > We upgraded a Univac 9xxx machine to a 90/30 and had > many RPG programs. > > RPG was written for the 1401 intended as a way for tab > operators to transition from plugboards to programming. > How effective it was in practice I don't know. > > RPG exploded when IBM upgraded it for the System/3 and > its successors. I think the modern RPG is very > different than the original. The original had a > built-in 'cycle' that was basically abandoned in > later versions. > > RPG was available for S/360, I think it was the same > version as for the 1401. Again, I don't know how > widely it was used. Don't think so, but I never saw RPG on a 1401. RPG started to come into it's own in the S/360 20. That was similar but not the same as RPG on other models. The main difference was the order of the sections. I never encountered RPG on a 1401. I do remember being shown some FARGO. That was the tab machine work-alike. Even our tab people thought it was a waste of time. > Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing > game or rocket propelled grenade. Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. If you kept your specs simple and were willing to compromise RPG on a model 20 was okay. I took a night job were I did all the coding for a business on a model 20. That worked out pretty well. At a few S/360 shops we attempted to use RPG but if you don't want to compromise to the language it doesn't work out so well. All those efforts failed. Later on I got to use RPG II on a S/34. The new language features really helped. The built in cycle was still there, but it was easy to work around. But even then, I rescued a failed attempt to design a system using only RPG II. The main edit/update programs in RPG just didn't work and couldn't be saved. We brought in the COBOL compiler and used it for the more complex programs and the project succeeded. -- Dan Espen
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-24 23:03 +0000 |
| Subject | RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad |
| Message-ID | <wHX0H.181598$hQ4.91353@fx39.iad> |
| In reply to | #213058 |
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes: >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > > >> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >> game or rocket propelled grenade. > >Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. Or Russ' Private Garbage (Named for the Burroughs engineer responsible for the medium systems compiler :-)
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad |
| Message-ID | <ri1ov31k5t@news1.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #213061 |
On 2020-08-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes: > >> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >> >>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >> >> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. > > Or Russ' Private Garbage (Named for the Burroughs engineer > responsible for the medium systems compiler :-) A cow orker pronounced it "R-Pig". -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult. X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy. / \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <56003531.620011882.303779.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #213058 |
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > > If you kept your specs simple and were willing to compromise RPG on a > model 20 was okay. I took a night job were I did all the coding > for a business on a model 20. That worked out pretty well. When I was doing 1130 stuff some of my fellow employees were doing /20 RPG. I guess most things worked out OK, but there were one or two programs where they attempted to do stuff RPG was never intended for, and there was a lot of griping. -- Pete
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| From | Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 07:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <hqjspdFqrafU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #213058 |
On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing
>> game or rocket propelled grenade.
>
> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator.
Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said
to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister.
Niklas
--
I'm truly ancient. I was born _before_ Mike became a sysadmin.
-- AdB
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 07:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri2rnr$lmq$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213078 |
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes: > On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >> >> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. > > Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said > to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. People keep picking on Perl. When I write it, it looks a lot like C code. I don't like some of the features that make the code hard to follow, so I just don't use them. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 11:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ri2sms$gqs$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #213080 |
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes: > >> On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >>>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >>> >>> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. >> >> Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said >> to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. > > People keep picking on Perl. > When I write it, it looks a lot like C code. > > I don't like some of the features that make the code > hard to follow, so I just don't use them. As a Perl person (by choice, more than by need), I could not agree more. By the way, I think that Javascript is far worse from the language perspective. You can (probably?) have good Javascript, if you don't use the whole language. Of course everyone is bitching about it, but it still manages to be very popular. And actually the same applies to C++: there are features that only a madman would use, in my opinion. People just do not use them, and that's all. Cheers
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 07:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri2u0r$lmq$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213082 |
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: > On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes: >> >>> On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >>>>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>>>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >>>> >>>> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. >>> >>> Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said >>> to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. >> >> People keep picking on Perl. >> When I write it, it looks a lot like C code. >> >> I don't like some of the features that make the code >> hard to follow, so I just don't use them. > > As a Perl person (by choice, more than by need), I > could not agree more. > > By the way, I think that Javascript is far worse from > the language perspective. You can (probably?) have > good Javascript, if you don't use the whole language. > Of course everyone is bitching about it, but it still > manages to be very popular. > > And actually the same applies to C++: there are > features that only a madman would use, in my opinion. > People just do not use them, and that's all. To really appreciate the warts on C++ you have to try to support build procedures for templates. If I recall correctly on the UNIX side HP's compiler gave us loads of issues. But nothing can compare to what IBM did on the mainframe side. I believe there were 3 alternatives, all complex and with various drawbacks. No ordinary mortal could understand them so just a couple of us got to choose how to set it up and diagnose problems. I created a ISPF panel for name demangling. That helped me figure out issues for others but what a mess. To be fair, IBM was trying to integrate external names in mixed case of indeterminate length with it's long standing 8 character upper case external symbols. It was amazing they got it to work at all. I came late to C++ because I don't believe the language you use should be more complex than the problem you are trying to solve. But at my place of work we had a guy that had been involved in C++ standards and design for a long time. So, when I finally had enough grasp of the language that I felt I could talk to him I brought up some of the issues that were bothering me. To my surprise, he agreed the language was crap. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 14:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ri37hq$1qvb$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #213084 |
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: > >> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes: >>> >>>> On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >>>>>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>>>>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >>>>> >>>>> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. >>>> >>>> Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said >>>> to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. >>> >>> People keep picking on Perl. >>> When I write it, it looks a lot like C code. >>> >>> I don't like some of the features that make the code >>> hard to follow, so I just don't use them. >> >> As a Perl person (by choice, more than by need), I >> could not agree more. >> >> By the way, I think that Javascript is far worse from >> the language perspective. You can (probably?) have >> good Javascript, if you don't use the whole language. >> Of course everyone is bitching about it, but it still >> manages to be very popular. >> >> And actually the same applies to C++: there are >> features that only a madman would use, in my opinion. >> People just do not use them, and that's all. > > To really appreciate the warts on C++ you have to > try to support build procedures for templates. I happen to write template code from time to time, and yes, it can be shockingly ugly. As far as I know there's even a competition where the winner managed to generate the highest [compiler error message] / [code length] ratio, and templates are often employed, for they seem to be made with that purpose in mind. ...but what is a build procedure? > If I recall correctly on the UNIX side HP's compiler gave us loads of > issues. But nothing can compare to what IBM did on the mainframe side. Being that I'm quite new, what years are we talking here? "IBM mainframe" seems quite old! > To be fair, IBM was trying to integrate external names in mixed case of > indeterminate length with it's long standing 8 character upper case > external symbols. It was amazing they got it to work at all. You mean with file names? I don't think there has been any limitation with the names of the C++ symbols, unless you're under some constraint dictated by the compiler / architecture. For sure C++ names, with mangling etc, can become a problem during the linking phase, especially when it comes to dynamic linking. There's even a GNU-extension in ELF that aids in optimizing the hashing for symbols... > I came late to C++ because I don't believe the language you use should > be more complex than the problem you are trying to solve. But at > my place of work we had a guy that had been involved in C++ standards > and design for a long time. > > So, when I finally had enough grasp of the language that I felt I could > talk to him I brought up some of the issues that were bothering me. > To my surprise, he agreed the language was crap. No doubt the language is horribly complex, thus crap. But I'm still surprisied by how far the language went in making it consistent, to the point that such a huge complexity never defeats the tools you are provided with by the standard library. I think that's a great achievement Still, I like C more: it is *simple*. As for my day job I work as a C++ developer (for the most part, when I'm not botching on our stupid build system), and I'm mildly annoyed when I'm asked to make things more "c-plus-plussy", since it often means making it more complex for no good reason.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 11:01 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri393i$l3h$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213098 |
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: > On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: >> >>> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes: >>>> >>>>> On 2020-08-24, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: >>>>>>> Today, RPG stands for other things, such as role playing >>>>>>> game or rocket propelled grenade. >>>>>> >>>>>> Back then it commonly stood for Rubbish Program Generator. >>>>> >>>>> Ah, reminds me of Perl, which even by Larry Wall himself has been said >>>>> to stand for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. >>>> >>>> People keep picking on Perl. >>>> When I write it, it looks a lot like C code. >>>> >>>> I don't like some of the features that make the code >>>> hard to follow, so I just don't use them. >>> >>> As a Perl person (by choice, more than by need), I >>> could not agree more. >>> >>> By the way, I think that Javascript is far worse from >>> the language perspective. You can (probably?) have >>> good Javascript, if you don't use the whole language. >>> Of course everyone is bitching about it, but it still >>> manages to be very popular. >>> >>> And actually the same applies to C++: there are >>> features that only a madman would use, in my opinion. >>> People just do not use them, and that's all. >> >> To really appreciate the warts on C++ you have to >> try to support build procedures for templates. > > I happen to write template code from time to time, and > yes, it can be shockingly ugly. As far as I know > there's even a competition where the winner managed to > generate the highest > > [compiler error message] / [code length] > > ratio, and templates are often employed, for they seem > to be made with that purpose in mind. > > ...but what is a build procedure? On our HP machines it was pretty much which compiler options you used. The developers had to figure out what to put in their Makefiles. We also had an official "build system" which had it's own way of doing things. On the mainframes the build procedures were MUCH more complex than just compiler options. I think it might take me a few days to describe all the ins and outs. Where I worked we had multiple attempts to unify development and build. Never did happen although I did create something on my own that would have come very close. >> If I recall correctly on the UNIX side HP's compiler gave us loads of >> issues. But nothing can compare to what IBM did on the mainframe side. > > Being that I'm quite new, what years are we talking > here? "IBM mainframe" seems quite old! Well I started programming in 1964 so quite old is accurate. But IBM mainframes are still with us and very viable. I've done all kinds of work but the last 10 years of my career were back onto IBM mainframes. I did all of my development for the mainframe on Linux but mainframes live on. >> To be fair, IBM was trying to integrate external names in mixed case of >> indeterminate length with it's long standing 8 character upper case >> external symbols. It was amazing they got it to work at all. > > You mean with file names? I don't think there has been > any limitation with the names of the C++ symbols, > unless you're under some constraint dictated by the > compiler / architecture. Yes, IBM file names and the external symbols used by the linker. Of course there are limitations on C++ symbols. Why do you think C++ uses "mangled names"? You can't very well have a linker seearching for something called 'signed int xyz (char *, int, ...)'. > For sure C++ names, with mangling etc, can become a > problem during the linking phase, especially when it > comes to dynamic linking. > > There's even a GNU-extension in ELF that aids in > optimizing the hashing for symbols... Hashing sounds like it could invite synonyms. IBM mainframes offered a bunch of solutions. We settled on the one that put symbols into PDS members. Can't remember what they called them. Something like side decks I think. >> I came late to C++ because I don't believe the language you use should >> be more complex than the problem you are trying to solve. But at >> my place of work we had a guy that had been involved in C++ standards >> and design for a long time. >> >> So, when I finally had enough grasp of the language that I felt I could >> talk to him I brought up some of the issues that were bothering me. >> To my surprise, he agreed the language was crap. > > No doubt the language is horribly complex, thus crap. > But I'm still surprisied by how far the language went > in making it consistent, to the point that such a huge > complexity never defeats the tools you are provided > with by the standard library. I think that's a great > achievement > > Still, I like C more: it is *simple*. > > As for my day job I work as a C++ developer (for the > most part, when I'm not botching on our stupid build > system), and I'm mildly annoyed when I'm asked to make > things more "c-plus-plussy", since it often means > making it more complex for no good reason. I was on a couple of C++ projects. Never liked it. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ri39tt$11l7$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #213105 |
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Being that I'm quite new, what years are we talking >> here? "IBM mainframe" seems quite old! > > Well I started programming in 1964 so quite old is accurate. Hell, now I'm so happy I can ask you things here! > But IBM mainframes are still with us and very viable. I've done all > kinds of work but the last 10 years of my career were back onto IBM > mainframes. I did all of my development for the mainframe on Linux > but mainframes live on. What is the strength of it? For example, in what situation would you recommend an IBM framework? And how come would you use Linux for the development part? Is it a matter of convenience? > Of course there are limitations on C++ symbols. > Why do you think C++ uses "mangled names"? To support overriden procedures, of course. :) > You can't very well have a linker seearching for something > called 'signed int xyz (char *, int, ...)'. Could it be a matter of optimization, perhaps? The manged is probably shorter, and that pays off if you have got a huge number of symbols. If we exclude this factor, I don't think there's a problem in searching some readable names (as long as they're in a "canonical form" where, for example 'int xyz(char *)' is the same as 'int xyz(char*)`. > Hashing sounds like it could invite synonyms. Collisions? Well yeah. But you do comparison of colliding elements, of course. > IBM mainframes offered a bunch of solutions. > We settled on the one that put symbols into PDS members. I don't know what a PDS memeber is :) What is it (if you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky details)?
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 11:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri3bbb$n6d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213107 |
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: > On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Being that I'm quite new, what years are we talking >>> here? "IBM mainframe" seems quite old! >> >> Well I started programming in 1964 so quite old is accurate. > > Hell, now I'm so happy I can ask you things here! I'm not the only old guy here. There are even a few that started a few years before me. >> But IBM mainframes are still with us and very viable. I've done all >> kinds of work but the last 10 years of my career were back onto IBM >> mainframes. I did all of my development for the mainframe on Linux >> but mainframes live on. > > What is the strength of it? Running code developed in the 60s pretty much unchanged. Supporting hundreds of thousands of simultaneous users. > For example, in what situation would you recommend an > IBM framework? They used to say you can't go wrong recommending IBM. Now, not so much. I suppose other platforms have transaction processors but IBM systems can really handle lots of work. > And how come would you use Linux for the development > part? Is it a matter of convenience? Tt was a matter of the tools available and wanting to use the CPU on my desk instead of sharing resources with hundreds of other users. I was quite good with IBM's development tools on mainframes (TSO/ISPF). But that's using block mode terminals. We had ported most of the good unix tools to ISPF and MVS does have a built in UNIX but there's more good stuff on Linux. I was able to build UNIX command line tools to send compiles over to MVS and get the results if I needed them. I used Perl so if I had a bad compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error' understood. So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with the error message showing in another buffer. The same process on ISPF was multi-step including hitting enter over and over waiting for compile results. >> Of course there are limitations on C++ symbols. >> Why do you think C++ uses "mangled names"? > > To support overriden procedures, of course. :) > >> You can't very well have a linker seearching for something >> called 'signed int xyz (char *, int, ...)'. > > Could it be a matter of optimization, perhaps? The > manged is probably shorter, and that pays off if you > have got a huge number of symbols. > > If we exclude this factor, I don't think there's a > problem in searching some readable names (as long as > they're in a "canonical form" where, for example > 'int xyz(char *)' is the same as 'int xyz(char*)`. I thing spaces, commas and the like are going to present issues. >> Hashing sounds like it could invite synonyms. > > Collisions? Well yeah. But you do comparison of > colliding elements, of course. > >> IBM mainframes offered a bunch of solutions. >> We settled on the one that put symbols into PDS members. > > I don't know what a PDS memeber is :) What is it (if > you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky > details)? Yeah, you don't want to know. The MVS native file system is nothing like the hierarchical file systems we've become used to. Traditional MVS file names are 44 characters max all upper case, each node in the name a maximum of 8 characters. If you want to look at lots of files with statistics like date/time size, who changed it last, you use a PDS (Partitioned Data Set). That's one dataset with lots of members. Each member name 8 characters all upper case. There are enough details and restrictions to write a treatise. -- Dan Espen
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 12:15 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ftdakfdm7t0k29pkcb3uso5b6i6ooq8k14@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #213111 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:39:21 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes: > >> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Being that I'm quite new, what years are we talking >>>> here? "IBM mainframe" seems quite old! >>> >>> Well I started programming in 1964 so quite old is accurate. >> >> Hell, now I'm so happy I can ask you things here! > >I'm not the only old guy here. >There are even a few that started a few years before me. > >>> But IBM mainframes are still with us and very viable. I've done all >>> kinds of work but the last 10 years of my career were back onto IBM >>> mainframes. I did all of my development for the mainframe on Linux >>> but mainframes live on. >> >> What is the strength of it? > >Running code developed in the 60s pretty much unchanged. >Supporting hundreds of thousands of simultaneous users. > >> For example, in what situation would you recommend an >> IBM framework? > >They used to say you can't go wrong recommending IBM. >Now, not so much. > >I suppose other platforms have transaction processors >but IBM systems can really handle lots of work. > >> And how come would you use Linux for the development >> part? Is it a matter of convenience? > >Tt was a matter of the tools available and wanting >to use the CPU on my desk instead of sharing resources >with hundreds of other users. > >I was quite good with IBM's development tools on >mainframes (TSO/ISPF). But that's using block mode >terminals. We had ported most of the good unix tools >to ISPF and MVS does have a built in UNIX but there's >more good stuff on Linux. > >I was able to build UNIX command line tools to send compiles over to MVS >and get the results if I needed them. I used Perl so if I had a bad >compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract >the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error' >understood. So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile >then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with >the error message showing in another buffer. That's a big win. Digging through job logs to find the error messages is always a pain. Is that code you can share? I'm currently in the process of reinventing that particular wheel under Python on Windows and an algorithm to identify the error messages would be a big help. >The same process on ISPF was multi-step including hitting enter over and >over waiting for compile results. That's one of the things that Eclipse/Compuware bring to the table. You get a notification when the job completes and then you can look at the output in a reasonably modern editor. >>> Of course there are limitations on C++ symbols. >>> Why do you think C++ uses "mangled names"? >> >> To support overriden procedures, of course. :) >> >>> You can't very well have a linker seearching for something >>> called 'signed int xyz (char *, int, ...)'. >> >> Could it be a matter of optimization, perhaps? The >> manged is probably shorter, and that pays off if you >> have got a huge number of symbols. >> >> If we exclude this factor, I don't think there's a >> problem in searching some readable names (as long as >> they're in a "canonical form" where, for example >> 'int xyz(char *)' is the same as 'int xyz(char*)`. > >I thing spaces, commas and the like are going to present >issues. > >>> Hashing sounds like it could invite synonyms. >> >> Collisions? Well yeah. But you do comparison of >> colliding elements, of course. >> >>> IBM mainframes offered a bunch of solutions. >>> We settled on the one that put symbols into PDS members. >> >> I don't know what a PDS memeber is :) What is it (if >> you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky >> details)? > >Yeah, you don't want to know. >The MVS native file system is nothing like the hierarchical >file systems we've become used to. > >Traditional MVS file names are 44 characters max >all upper case, each node in the name a maximum of 8 characters. >If you want to look at lots of files with statistics like >date/time size, who changed it last, you use a PDS (Partitioned Data >Set). That's one dataset with lots of members. Each member name >8 characters all upper case. > >There are enough details and restrictions to write a treatise. The first time a user coming from Unix or Windows sees a PDS they tend to think of it as a directory. This works just fine until they bump into one of the many ways that it is _not_ a directory.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 15:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ri3ohf$g6r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #213118 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:39:21 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >>I was able to build UNIX command line tools to send compiles over to MVS >>and get the results if I needed them. I used Perl so if I had a bad >>compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract >>the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error' >>understood. So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile >>then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with >>the error message showing in another buffer. > > That's a big win. Digging through job logs to find the error messages > is always a pain. > > Is that code you can share? I'm currently in the process of > reinventing that particular wheel under Python on Windows and an > algorithm to identify the error messages would be a big help. Nope, can't share it, I wrote it, but it was never mine, it was my employers. If your corp wanted the whole suite, my employer might be convinced to just hand it over since it never grew beyond personal/project use. I might be able to give you some guidance though on various parts. Okay this might be a long story, I'll trim everything else and read the rest of the email later. As I said the company had lots of build systems lots of build tools, I never liked any of them. I was convinced their whole approach was wrong as they developed a PL/I based system that did lots of database searching and the like to construct compile JCL. I despise JCL. So, I came up with the idea of writing CLISTS to do compiles. The CLISTS could do all kinds of things, like looking at the source code to figure out any special needs of the source code. So, I developed ISPF panels to launch compiles with CLISTS. The panels would accept SUB on the command line or do the compile in the foreground if you just hit enter. When you typed SUB, the CLIST would just take some skeleton JCL that ran the exact same CLIST in batch. So, I took the panels pretty far, your could put an asterisk anywhere in the dataset name or member name and you'd get lists of datasets you could use or members you could compile. From the member lists you could submit one or more members for compile. For the panel interface I had logic that would look for comments in the source code to see if the compile neeed the SQL pre-processor or other special steps to do the compile. That was all pretty good, but it wasn't what I thought was the best. So, I moved over to UNIX and started developing tools there. I started with "SUBMIT" which just took JCL, and ran the JCL and brought the results and/or return code back. The SUBMIT Perl command added a job card and a step at the end of the submitted JCL to get the results. I passed the step at the end the submitting host name and port it was waiting on. So, the Perl SUBMIT would use FTP with FILETYPE=JES to get the job there, then then wait on a port to hear from the job. A detail is that you can't get the submitted JCL back until the job ends. So that last step would submit another job to do the actual notify of completion. So, now I had a way of moving jobs back and forth. I then starting writing Perl commands for other things, including compiles. The compiles all used SUBMIT under the covers. The Perl commands would construct JCL and CLIST invocation commands just like the panels had when you typed SUb. Okay at this point I have to digress. As you know when you compile you have to search a whole bunch of SPOOL members to find problems in either the JCL, or the compile, or the link, or SQL preprocessor. I never liked that so I had the CLIST gather all the compile output into a single dataset. If you compiled from MY.PROJ.C(HELLO) and there was a MY.PROH.C.LISTING preallocated, all the compile output would be combined in MY.PROJ.C.LISTING(HELLO). There was a separator between each piece of spool output with step name, return code, etc with a special set of characters you could search for, I think '=-". The panels were set up to go there with the "LIST/L" primary command. So, back to the UNIX/Perl side. For error messages all the Perl side had to do is look at the SUBMIT return code and if there was a problem it brought back the LISTING member, and on the UNIX side it would create hello.listing. Perl is really good at parsing things and finding error messages in listings is something it can easily do. For C the error messages were all one line and really easy to find. For HLASM it was a bit harder, error messages and line numbers were on separate lines and headings could get in the way. Still, not all that hard to find. Emacs expects errors to have a certain format so that 'next-error' can work. That wasn't hard to accomplish. A complication is that sometimes error message can point to header files or macros. Still not all that hard to deal with. Our compile procedures were complex incuding our own site preprocessor so the CLISTS with all the fancy whistles might have been 2000 lines each. Without all the fancy stuff, maybe 500 lines. The Perl submit command around 100 lines. the Perl compile commands around 500 lines each. They were all pretty similar. I suppose there could have been one compile CLIST and one Perl compile command for all languages but I didn't go that way. On the UNIX side I used Makefiles to drive the whole process and I had the Perl stuff create .o type files and the like for dependency checking. Uploading and pre-processing a header would create a .hdro file for the .h. I would have the Perl adjust the timestamp in the .o if the compile had errors. The makefiles led all the way through running tests and in some cases checking results. So, work away in the source tree changing headers, macros, subroutines, mains, PSB source, and then just type make. Everything gets compiled and tested in one shot. I set up the perfect development environent which was shared by my group but I never could motivate myself to fight the battles to switch over the whole company. I did preliminary work to move this stuff to Cygwin on Windows but I still had easy access to Linux/Unix so I never finished that. If you don't already have a submit command for your PC I think that's a good way to start. -- Dan Espen
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-25 16:50 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bcuakf18ncp995h7cpvvbq10bbl34qldvc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #213137 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:24:29 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > >> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 11:39:21 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>I was able to build UNIX command line tools to send compiles over to MVS >>>and get the results if I needed them. I used Perl so if I had a bad >>>compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract >>>the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error' >>>understood. So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile >>>then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with >>>the error message showing in another buffer. >> >> That's a big win. Digging through job logs to find the error messages >> is always a pain. >> >> Is that code you can share? I'm currently in the process of >> reinventing that particular wheel under Python on Windows and an >> algorithm to identify the error messages would be a big help. > >Nope, can't share it, I wrote it, but it was never mine, it was my employers. >If your corp wanted the whole suite, my employer might be convinced to >just hand it over since it never grew beyond personal/project use. > >I might be able to give you some guidance though on various parts. > >Okay this might be a long story, I'll trim everything else and read the >rest of the email later. > >As I said the company had lots of build systems lots of build tools, >I never liked any of them. > >I was convinced their whole approach was wrong as they developed a PL/I >based system that did lots of database searching and the like to >construct compile JCL. > >I despise JCL. > >So, I came up with the idea of writing CLISTS to do compiles. >The CLISTS could do all kinds of things, like looking at the source code >to figure out any special needs of the source code. > >So, I developed ISPF panels to launch compiles with CLISTS. > >The panels would accept SUB on the command line or do the compile >in the foreground if you just hit enter. >When you typed SUB, the CLIST would just take some >skeleton JCL that ran the exact same CLIST in batch. > >So, I took the panels pretty far, your could put an asterisk anywhere in >the dataset name or member name and you'd get lists of datasets you >could use or members you could compile. From the member lists you could >submit one or more members for compile. For the panel interface I had >logic that would look for comments in the source code to see if the compile >neeed the SQL pre-processor or other special steps to do the compile. > >That was all pretty good, but it wasn't what I thought was the best. >So, I moved over to UNIX and started developing tools there. > >I started with "SUBMIT" which just took JCL, and ran the JCL and >brought the results and/or return code back. The SUBMIT Perl command >added a job card and a step at the end of the submitted JCL >to get the results. >I passed the step at the end the submitting host name and port >it was waiting on. So, the Perl SUBMIT would use FTP with FILETYPE=JES >to get the job there, then then wait on a port to hear from the job. > >A detail is that you can't get the submitted JCL back until the job >ends. So that last step would submit another job to do the actual >notify of completion. > >So, now I had a way of moving jobs back and forth. > >I then starting writing Perl commands for other things, including >compiles. The compiles all used SUBMIT under the covers. The Perl >commands would construct JCL and CLIST invocation commands just like >the panels had when you typed SUb. > >Okay at this point I have to digress. > >As you know when you compile you have to search a whole bunch of SPOOL >members to find problems in either the JCL, or the compile, or the link, >or SQL preprocessor. I never liked that so I had the CLIST gather >all the compile output into a single dataset. If you compiled >from MY.PROJ.C(HELLO) and there was a MY.PROH.C.LISTING preallocated, >all the compile output would be combined in MY.PROJ.C.LISTING(HELLO). >There was a separator between each piece of spool output >with step name, return code, etc with a special set of characters >you could search for, I think '=-". >The panels were set up to go there with the "LIST/L" primary command. > >So, back to the UNIX/Perl side. > >For error messages all the Perl side had to do is look at the SUBMIT >return code and if there was a problem it brought back the LISTING >member, and on the UNIX side it would create hello.listing. > >Perl is really good at parsing things and finding error messages >in listings is something it can easily do. For C the error messages >were all one line and really easy to find. For HLASM it was a bit >harder, error messages and line numbers were on separate lines and >headings could get in the way. Still, not all that hard to find. >Emacs expects errors to have a certain format so that 'next-error' >can work. That wasn't hard to accomplish. A complication >is that sometimes error message can point to header files or macros. >Still not all that hard to deal with. > >Our compile procedures were complex incuding our own site >preprocessor so the CLISTS with all the fancy whistles >might have been 2000 lines each. Without all the fancy stuff, maybe >500 lines. > >The Perl submit command around 100 lines. >the Perl compile commands around 500 lines each. >They were all pretty similar. I suppose there could have been >one compile CLIST and one Perl compile command for all languages but I >didn't go that way. > >On the UNIX side I used Makefiles to drive the whole process and I had >the Perl stuff create .o type files and the like for dependency checking. >Uploading and pre-processing a header would create a .hdro file for the .h. >I would have the Perl adjust the timestamp in the .o if the compile >had errors. > >The makefiles led all the way through running tests and in some cases >checking results. So, work away in the source tree changing headers, >macros, subroutines, mains, PSB source, and then just type make. >Everything gets compiled and tested in one shot. > >I set up the perfect development environent which was shared by my group >but I never could motivate myself to fight the battles to switch over >the whole company. > >I did preliminary work to move this stuff to Cygwin on Windows but >I still had easy access to Linux/Unix so I never finished that. > >If you don't already have a submit command for your PC >I think that's a good way to start. This is helpful--thank you.
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